Is argus no flying?

[rda]

There is no choice. Flying is so much more efficient that where it is enabled, players have to fly.

What efficiency? Completing quests faster? But you won't be able to complete more quests if you are flying, you will just do it faster. Aren't those who are against flying saying that they are against because they enjoy being on the ground? So, what's the issue? If what they say is true, they will complete the same number of quests in the manner they enjoy and those who like flying will complete them in the manner they enjoy.

No, it doesn't work like that, because those who are nominally against flying in reality frequently are ambivalent, and they are just too quick to buy into Blizzard propaganda regarding it, and too slow to actually think about it.

[Lahis]

What efficiency? Completing quests faster? But you won't be able to complete more quests if you are flying, you will just do it faster. Aren't those who are against flying saying that they are against because they enjoy being on the ground? So, what's the issue? If what they say is true, they will complete the same number of quests in the manner they enjoy and those who like flying will complete them in the manner they enjoy.

No, it doesn't work like that, because those who are nominally against flying in reality frequently are ambivalent, and they are just too quick to buy into Blizzard propaganda regarding it, and too slow to actually think about it.

You answered your own question. Highlighted for ease of reading.

No matter what you prefer, flying from objective to objective, skipping the need for navigation and clearing obstacles makes doing to content easier and faster. In such situation choosing to use ground mount "because you can" makes no logical sense.

[rda]

You answered your own question. Highlighted for ease of reading.

No matter what you prefer, flying from objective to objective, skipping the need for navigation and clearing obstacles makes doing to content easier and faster. In such situation choosing to use ground mount "because you can" makes no logical sense.

But there are sentences past the first two in my post. If there was no limit to the number of quests you could do, being able to complete them faster would have been an advantage. With the limit, this becomes a preference. You like the ground better than flying - fine, use ground, here are your rewards for the day. You like flying better - same rewards. What's the issue again? Please be clear.

[Lahis]

But there are sentences past the first two in my post. If there was no limit to the number of quests you could do, being able to complete them faster would have been an advantage. With the limit, this becomes a preference. You like the ground better than flying - fine, use ground, here are your rewards for the day. You like flying better - same rewards. What's the issue again? Please be clear.

Navigating the terrain and the obstacles within are all part of the game play and level design. Flying just lets you skip all that and go straight to the reward.

You cannot skip every obstacle on a Mario level, why should you be able to do so here?

[rda]

Navigating the terrain and the obstacles within are all part of the game play and level design. Flying just lets you skip all that and go straight to the reward.

And? I repeat for the third time, what's the issue? If I don't like navigating through terrain (because I've seen it a hundred times), so what?

So far your argument for removing flying is: it should be removed because it should be removed. (= "has no part in the game" and other bla bla bla)

[Lahis]

And? I repeat for the third time, what's the issue? If I don't like navigating through terrain (because I've seen it a hundred times), so what?

Then find other game.

It's part of the intended game play and level design.

[Triggered Fridgekin]

I'm okay with no flying but it feels like everything on Argus has a hidden "10000% higher chance to dismount you" modifier.

It's seriously aggravating.

[rda]

Then find other game.

It's part of the intended game play and level design.

Cool. I get it.

You have nothing, just "this way or highway".

That's part of why the game is dying. But it's alright, just don't be surprised when they start monetizing you more - eg, by giving you less for the same money (which already is well on the way). And when they will take away something *you* liked, don't be surprised that some other wise ass will explain to you that it's fine and you should leave the game if you disagree.

[Lahis]

Cool. I get it.

You have nothing, just "this way or highway".

That's part of why the game is dying. But it's alright, just don't be surprised when they will start monetizing you more - eg, by giving you less for the same money. And when they will take away something *you* liked, don't be surprised that some other wise ass will explain to you that it's fine and you should leave the game if you disagree.

You answer me.

Why would you "play" a game, if all you wanna do is to skip the game play?

[rda]

You answer me.

Why would you "play" a game, if all you wanna do is to skip the game play?

Because this is not all I want to do, you start from a false premise. I want to skip some things and do others.

[Lahis]

Because this is not all I want to do, you start from a false premise. I want to skip some things and do others.

But what will you do when the game is not built around of skipping one big part of the game play?

The world is part of the game play in open world games, which most MMOs belong to.

[SirCowdog]

There is no choice. Flying is so much more efficient that where it is enabled, players have to fly.

You are confusing: "I am willing to sacrifice my personal enjoyment and preferred playstyle in order to fly because it's faster."

with:

"There is no choice".

Everyone likes to talk about how much better the ground-only experience is, but the second they're given a choice between enjoyable gameplay and what they perceive as faster or more efficient, suddenly "there's no choice". Maybe the simple truth is that you don't care as much about the grounded experience as you think.

And maybe...just maybe: Between all the flight master whistles, portals, teleports, hearths, summons, and flight paths, as well as daily and weekly time-gates, the difference between being on the ground and in the air really isn't nearly as much as you seem to think.

[rda]

But what will you do when the game is not built around of skipping one big part of the game play?

The world is part of the game play in open world games, which most MMOs belong to.

I am not sure what you are asking here.

I am fine doing world quests. I also want flying. Because sometimes I want to fly from one quest to another and sometimes I don't. The longer I am doing the same things, the more I want to fly between them and do them faster. The usual.

[SirCowdog]

Navigating the terrain and the obstacles within are all part of the game play and level design. Flying just lets you skip all that and go straight to the reward.

Unless the game play and level design take flying into account. You know, like it did in Icecrown, the zone we keep beating you over the head with and you keep ignoring?

You cannot skip every obstacle on a Mario level, why should you be able to do so here?

Actually there were many levels in multiple Mario games where it was entirely possible to skip every obstacle. There were also levels where secret bonus areas were only accessible by using the feather/cape. Sooo...yeah. Not sure your point stands up very well.

[Lahis]

Actually there were many levels in multiple Mario games where it was entirely possible to skip every obstacle. There were also levels where secret bonus areas were only accessible by using the feather/cape. Sooo...yeah. Not sure your point stands up very well.

I'm not counting speedrun tier glitches. Sure, levels have secrets and shortcuts, but in none of them is skipping straight to the end the intended gameplay.

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You are confusing: "I am willing to sacrifice my personal enjoyment and preferred playstyle in order to fly because it's faster."

with:

"There is no choice".

Everyone likes to talk about how much better the ground-only experience is, but the second they're given a choice between enjoyable gameplay and what they perceive as faster or more efficient, suddenly "there's no choice". Maybe the simple truth is that you don't care as much about the grounded experience as you think.

And maybe...just maybe: Between all the flight master whistles, portals, teleports, hearths, summons, and flight paths, as well as daily and weekly time-gates, being on the ground really isn't actually that much slower or efficient.

People want effiency and take the path of least resistance. When flying doesn't offer any additional challenges to offset the ease of navigation and ability to skip everything, people will take flying, regardless how much they'd like ground gameplay.

To have flying and ground mounts be on equal footing on same area, you'd literally need to be dodging bullets while flying.

[Orby]

After playing the new zone, I totally see why no flying is a thing, can you imagine flying around this very liner zone? You would be bumping into invisible walls constantly. lol.

This is one zone people should not be complaining about, especially as the terrain is very accessible for ground mounts anyway. This isnt even close to Storm Peaks level of needing a flying mount. This is more Elywnn Forrest levels as in it's really not needed.

[SirCowdog]

I'm not counting speedrun tier glitches. Sure, levels have secrets and shortcuts, but in none of them is skipping straight to the end the intended game play.

Ok, so now speed runs aren't valid gameplay? Glitches and warps in Mario are so popular that they started building them into the game as part of the "intended gameplay". There are literally warps designed to let you skip entire levels.

Why don't you just come out and admit that you don't approve of anything other than the way you personally like to play?

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People want effiency and take the path of least resistance. When flying doesn't offer any additional challenges to offset the ease of navigation and ability to skip everything, people will take flying, regardless how much they'd like ground gameplay.

Oh, so now you speak for everyone?

To have flying and ground mounts be on equal footing on same area, you'd literally need to be dodging bullets while flying.

Who said they need to be on equal footing? You keep making bad assumption after bad assumption. Did you miss the part earlier where I talked about how the zones were balanced between zones made to use flying, and no-fly islands for ground-only? Where I explained how much better it was that BOTH styles of play had areas devoted to them, letting players get the enjoyment of variety?

You're so stuck on this "flight is bad" pitch that you're not even able to see anything else.

[Lahis]

Ok, so now speed runs aren't valid gameplay? Glitches and warps in Mario are so popular that they started building them into the game as part of the "intended gameplay". There are literally warps designed to let you skip entire levels.

Speedrunning is valid way to challenge yourself, but it's not what developers intended when building the game.

If you glitch out of bounds to skip content, it is clearly not meant to happen.

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Who said they need to be on equal footing?

Everyone who ever said that using a ground mount on a flight enabled area is a choice.

If one way to do things is much easier than the other, it is the only logical option.

[Nurvus]

This is as wrong as wrong gets:

Druids got flying at level 68 FOR FREE and everyone else bought it, when they dinged 70 and you cared to travel to Shadowmoon Valley.. I seem to recall the price was 20g..

Epic flight, on the other hand, was 5000g and rep bonus didn't exist yet..

Normal flight was at least 225g, which was a lot back then. I think it was even higher before that, but maybe I am wrong.
Normal flight was 60% speed bonus, not 150%, so flight vs ground travel was actually a choice until you got Epic flight.

My point being that you didn't have 90% of the players flying all the time, there were actually lots of people on the ground to interact with and do stuff - not even talking about PvP.
With WotLK it was still pretty fine because the later areas were designed specifically for flight within the area (not merely as a tool to get to the area).
Furthermore, it was in WotLK that the Dungeon Queue system was introduced.

So Flying only really started showing the damage it could do - specially alongside Dungeon Queue - from Cataclysm onwards, mostly because even though the areas were done with flight in mind, they weren't made FOR flight like Icecrown or Storm Peaks, except maybe Deepholme.

[Lahis]

Did you miss the part earlier where I talked about how the zones were balanced between zones made to use flying, and no-fly islands for ground-only? Where I explained how much better it was that BOTH styles of play had areas devoted to them, letting players get the enjoyment of variety?

And this is exactly what we have now, yet you are against no flying on Argus...