It doesn't feel like much of anything matters ingame anymore?

[barackohmama]

A game with 13 years on the neck has many different mounts, recolors, has adopted transmogging (a staple within the industry by now) and people enjoy looking good rather than like assclowns just so that Timmy-Wanna-Be could stand around gawking at them?

How horrible! Let us strip the game from 13 years of progress and watch the magic flow, everyone will care again since that's impossible now!! ...

-_-

People care about gear on a deeper level which transcends stats these days. Items previously regarded as useless, are sold for absolute bank because of transmog and people caring about collecting transmogs. Wanna gawk at people and can't find those other clues to what a player does? Inspect Character feature is your friend. There are more reasons to invest time and care about various aspects of the game than ever before, but in the end it comes down to what the person wants out of his/her games. Sucks for the people whom fell out of love to such an extent that all they can do is lament the days gone bye, but that's just how it is.

Inspect character, one of the most annoying thing there is. With the addition of tmog the inspection rate most certainly increased tenfolds if not more. Of course you did inspect before aswell but mostly to check what kind of enchants/gems people were running.

Kinda funny you call thing like tmog and mount collection game progression when all it does is promotes anti social behaviour. I rather gawk at someone who made an effort to play the game and cooperate with other players to reach goals than gawk at someone who spent rl money to buy a mount or did all the quests to get his class mount like everyone else.

[Queen of Hamsters]

I just realized you're someone who never played Classic/TBC, so how could you possibly understand all that everyone is saying. Regardless, I've tried to elaborate even further.

- Transmog has marginalized the visual aspect of being a high-end raider/pvper. You can be in full green gear and look like a much more skilled/successful player.

- Multiple difficulties of raids have marginalized the prestige of being a high-end raider who, if the original design was still in place, would be part of a very select group of people to only see the most difficult content. LFR now allows Joe-schmoe to see the exact same raid as the very best players.

- CRZ/LFR/Realm Changes/Faction Changes/Name Changes have marginalized, if not completely destroyed, server community and player-to-player reputations. Anonymity is at an all-time high. Servers can't police themselves anymore, because trolls or pariahs can just leave the server, with a new name, race, and faction. Maybe you don't understand this because you didn't play then, but server communities were very real. There is no community anymore on my high-pop server, and this feeling is shared by other players from every server who KNOW what it was like before these things were put in place.

- Warforge/Titanforge/RNG luck of loot has marginalized the hard work high-end raiders and pvpers put into the game to earn the best gear. Due to this design choice, the best players don't always have the best gear anymore, and lucky casual players who don't do any content worthy of the gear they've been awarded potentially have better gear than the best players.

These are just some of the points I've made as to why "It doesn't feel like much of anything matters ingame anymore." Everyone else who has commented with their own points just further cements this overarching fact.

You're merely cementing your own opinions, not facts. Some additions:

That "green gear" player looking skilled and successful, PROBABLY got the transmog from being those things... They're also often the last people to switch their gear between expansions, and the first to once more have the best items.

The best players will always have the best gear possible at the highest rate possible, that's a fact.

Servers police themselves just fine, this happens in the organized team gameplay which you think "doesn't matter cuz LFR...". The "server community" you hold in such high regard was very restricted to the few teams where cooperative gameplay took place. Also: Real ID, track away! This ties into the whole "Nobody's social anymore in this MMORPG!"-trope, the complainers are their own worst enemies.

High end raiders are still in a very select group. LFR doesn't allow "Joe Schmoe" to see the exact same raids. Try applying to a Mythic guild with "I have experience from LFR, it's the same thing!!" and see how far that gets ya, chump!

- - - Updated - - -

Inspect character, one of the most annoying thing there is. With the addition of tmog the inspection rate most certainly increased tenfolds if not more. Of course you did inspect before aswell but mostly to check what kind of enchants/gems people were running.

Kinda funny you call thing like tmog and mount collection game progression when all it does is promotes anti social behaviour. I rather gawk at someone who made an effort to play the game and cooperate with other players to reach goals than gawk at someone who spent rl money to buy a mount or did all the quests to get his class mount like everyone else.

There are far more prestigeous mounts to be obtained in the game than there were in Classic, where the first grey Kodo was considered high end for a long time. Spoiler: Store mounts and Class mounts are not considered prestigeous in any shape or form.

But it's clear what type of posters you people are whom consider collections in an MMORPG to promote "anti social behaviour"... You mean like how Classic was fraught with ninja-looters whom just rolled new characters once they shot their reputation on one character to hell through their anti-social behaviour?

You want to return back to a time when reaching max level made you a hero and raiding was only demanding due to logistics because that reflects your capabilities? Fine, but the game hasn't been that since Classic ended, and stripping the game of all the things people care about in order to cater to the tiny "muh classics!!"-crowd whom never left 2005, would render it dead quicker than you can say "Wildstar"...

Now, time to go in-game and play with other people (today's players) having a bit higher standards for what constitutes prestige than the gear of a character downing a 2-ability boss that later purchased a kodo from a vendor. You keep lamenting the past to such an extent that you prevent yourself from experiencing those same things today, it's no skin off of any nose but your own.

Or just play on a private server, it's so engaging that most of the time once people are done with the few things available to do at max level, they'll sit in chats cirklejerking about how "retail players are clueless of the TRUE MAGIC of this game!!"...

[TheWorkingTitle]

You're merely cementing your own opinions, not facts. Some additions:

That "green gear" player looking skilled and successful, PROBABLY got the transmog from being those things... They're also often the last people to switch their gear between expansions, and the first to once more have the best items.

The best players will always have the best gear possible at the highest rate possible, that's a fact.

Servers police themselves just fine, this happens in the organized team gameplay which you think "doesn't matter cuz LFR...". The "server community" you hold in such high regard was very restricted to the few teams where cooperative gameplay took place. Also: Real ID, track away! This ties into the whole "Nobody's social anymore in this MMORPG!"-trope, the complainers are their own worst enemies.

High end raiders are still in a very select group. LFR doesn't allow "Joe Schmoe" to see the exact same raids. Try applying to a Mythic guild with "I have experience from LFR, it's the same thing!!" and see how far that gets ya, chump!

Nope, they're facts whether you want to accept them as such or not.

You continue to miss the point. A player in greens looking like a more skilled/more successful player negatively affects the game's visual prestige. Once, it was as clear as day to see what each player had earned. Now? Lol.

And again you move goal posts. It's also a fact that the best players don't always have the best gear, due to the aforementioned RNG aspect of Titanforge/Warforge.

You don't know anything about the "server community' because you weren't even around back then. Blow smoke up someone else's ass, because your diatribe doesn't work on me.

And lastly, yet another lacking response. LFR allows Joe Schmoe to see all of Tomb and its bosses. This wasn't something that marginalized the best players during Classic/TBC, but how could you know that? Heh.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Nope, they're facts whether you want to accept them as such or not.

You continue to miss the point. A player in greens looking like a more skilled/more successful player negatively affects the game's visual prestige. Once, it was as clear as day to see what each player had earned. Now? Lol.

And again you move goal posts. It's also a fact that the best players don't always have the best gear, due to the aforementioned RNG aspect of Titanforge/Warforge.

You don't know anything about the "server community' because you weren't even around back then. Blow smoke up someone else's ass, because your diatribe doesn't work on me.

And lastly, yet another lacking response. LFR allows Joe Schmoe to see all of Tomb and its bosses. This wasn't something that marginalized the best players during Classic/TBC, but how could you know that? Heh.

You feel a certain way, others agree with how you feel, but that does in no shape or form mean that what you feel is somehow factually present for everyone else. Delusions of grandure, can you spell it?

There's no "moving of goalposts", the goalposts you place are made out of thin air and feels to begin with. There's no "missing a point", I disagree with your opinions based upon actual in-game experiences over the past years when the game wasn't Classic anymore. Meanwhile, in-game:

People caring about every aspect present in Classic, is still present same as always. Changed =/= removed, just to be clear.
More aspects have been added for people to care about on a deeper level. Where a piece of gear would be thrown out before, it now also becomes a long-lasting testament to that player's conquests which they can transmog into.

The raiding community remains largely the same in size, as in people having a bit higher standards for what constitutes raiding than the tourist mode called LFR. I get this feeling that "marginalized" in this case means "I miss the days when logistics, not performance, was the hurdle for being called Hardcore...". Well, in Legion, we've had both! Logistics surrounding raids AND performance!


Your feels for something =/= reality for everyone else and how they feel about that something. The requirements for what constitutes prestige within each aspect of the game merely shifted upwards among the players, they didn't go away by some obscure design choice.

I'll leave it with this since my addons have updated:

Nothing ever really mattered in the first place. It just seemed more important to you back then. I've had the same change in viewpoint over the years, but I don't blame the game for it.

[TheWorkingTitle]

You feel a certain way, others agree with how you feel, but that does in no shape or form mean that what you feel is somehow factually present for everyone else. Delusions of grandure, can you spell it?

There's no "moving of goalposts", the goalposts you place are made out of thin air and feels to begin with. There's no "missing a point", I disagree with your opinions based upon actual in-game experiences over the past years when the game wasn't Classic anymore. Meanwhile, in-game:

People caring about every aspect present in Classic, is still present same as always. Changed =/= removed, just to be clear.
More aspects have been added for people to care about on a deeper level. Where a piece of gear would be thrown out before, it now also becomes a long-lasting testament to that player's conquests which they can transmog into.

The raiding community remains largely the same in size, as in people having a bit higher standards for what constitutes raiding than the tourist mode called LFR. I get this feeling that "marginalized" in this case means "I miss the days when logistics, not performance, was the hurdle for being called Hardcore...". Well, in Legion, we've had both! Logistics surrounding raids AND performance!


Your feels for something =/= reality for everyone else and how they feel about that something. The requirements for what constitutes prestige within each aspect of the game merely shifted upwards among the players, they didn't go away by some obscure design choice.

I'll leave it with this since my addons have updated:

You're just doing the equivalent of plugging up your ears with your fingers going, "LA LA LA LA LA, I can't hear you." That's all right though, no one is required to accept reality.

The goal post is what my original points were. You just answered with non sequiturs which, admittedly, are par for the course for you.

And you do miss the point if you think that I and others are just merely stating opinions.

[Haywire5714]

The game has been not Vanilla for longer than it was. The game didn't spike in popularity in Classic nor did it start dropping after it ended. Classic isn't even at the top of polls as the best iteration most of the time, those spots being held by TBC/WOTLK and in the future, likely by Legion seeing as how it's incredibly positively received even now, 1 year after release and after the usual "honeymoon phase".

TBC and Wotlk had elements of both ends of the spectrum (old WoW and new WoW) which is one of the reasons they were so popular:

Old WoW: immersion, prestige, community, sense of accomplishment in all aspects of the game.
New WoW: accessible content, good gameplay, faster travel, faster grouping.

All elements of old WoW were almost completely removed by cata/mop and it gets worse every expansion.

Out of all the people that were subscribed during vanilla/tbc/wotlk, how many do you think currently play modern WoW? 25% would be generous I think.

Out of that 25% how many of those people actually enjoy modern WoW to the same extent that they enjoyed old WoW? Hell out of 100% of the people that played during Vanilla/TBC/Wotlk how many of them do you think would enjoy modern WoW to the same extent that they enjoyed old WoW?

What I'm trying to say is that I believe there are many people out there that do enjoy what old WoW had to offer and regardless of how popular you think Legion is right now, the game is in a dire state compared to what it could have been if all the elements of old WoW and new WoW had been preserved from the beginning.

And plenty of people having played since Classic, are still around and having fun, so they must be doing something right. Legion does more than any previous expansion to cater to a lot of different players finding meaning in different activities. People CLEARLY care more about raiding now than they did when the game was new, despite (or perhaps due to) LFR being in place for the defeatist people thinking they "skip" Mythic raiding "cuz why bother when LFR is here..."..

The problem is that you think Blizzard is doing something right because according to you "plenty" of people from classic are still having fun. Regardless of whether this is true or not I am not interested in pleasing "plenty" of people from classic ... I want the vast majority of players from classic to still be playing and enjoying modern WoW alongside the players that enjoy modern WoW right now.

You want to know who Legion appeals to? Barely anybody ... do you really think that the majority of the current playerbase is satisfied with all aspects of WoW right now? I would bet that 1% of the current playerbase is satisfied with every aspect of the game right now.

That 1% of people is who Legion caters to right now.

[ro9ue]

- let it be gone! Server rep. means nothing. Not sure why it has ANY value. Someone is toxic? /ignore.. Simple.
- Yeah cause spending months leveling is so much fun. Taking time =/= challenging.
- Like a clown. Red chest, black boots, brown gloves, blue helmet, yellow shoulders. Thank God for transmog.
- They're still powerful. Troll racial, orc, blood elf, worgen etc etc.
- Yeah, how dare they to allow any class pick the professions they actually want!! "Clothie? You better be picking up Tailoring!!!"
- Still exists.
- This i agree.
- Yeah how dare people farm on things they want. Only the 1% should have it.
- Who hurt you so badly and outgeared you and took your spot in your raid team? I say kudos to the person. Let people gear up and catch up. No point of having 80% of playerbase not being raid geared. Legion is in a amazing spots where old Legion raid contents still gets farmed every week by players.

- You're salty cause you cant bling anything..

Yeah no. I actually hate people with the immense obsession of wanting attention... This game is nowhere Vanilla for the better. More people like you unsubbing actually benefits us.

Lol why the anger towards me in your post?

[Redroniksre]

I just realized you're someone who never played Classic/TBC, so how could you possibly understand all that everyone is saying. Regardless, I've tried to elaborate even further.

- Transmog has marginalized the visual aspect of being a high-end raider/pvper. You can be in full green gear and look like a much more skilled/successful player.

- Multiple difficulties of raids have marginalized the prestige of being a high-end raider who, if the original design was still in place, would be part of a very select group of people to only see the most difficult content. LFR now allows Joe-schmoe to see the exact same raid as the very best players.

- CRZ/LFR/Realm Changes/Faction Changes/Name Changes have marginalized, if not completely destroyed, server community and player-to-player reputations. Anonymity is at an all-time high. Servers can't police themselves anymore, because trolls or pariahs can just leave the server, with a new name, race, and faction. Maybe you don't understand this because you didn't play then, but server communities were very real. There is no community anymore on my high-pop server, and this feeling is shared by other players from every server who KNOW what it was like before these things were put in place.

- Warforge/Titanforge/RNG luck of loot has marginalized the hard work high-end raiders and pvpers put into the game to earn the best gear. Due to this design choice, the best players don't always have the best gear anymore, and lucky casual players who don't do any content worthy of the gear they've been awarded potentially have better gear than the best players.

These are just some of the points I've made as to why "It doesn't feel like much of anything matters ingame anymore." Everyone else who has commented with their own points just further cements this overarching fact.

As someone who played back in Vanilla and ever since, you aren't wrong about those points, however i dont think it is a bad thing. The only thing i miss is communities, everything else there was only there to satisfy less than 5% of the population and has only been better for a casual player now that they are gone. Hell raiders should be somewhat thankful, LFR is the only reason they have raids with unique assets and not more things like Gruuls lair or Tempest Keep.

[Deleted]

Comparing to vanilla, because one must always compare to vanilla.

Things like your name, transmog (or just gear back then), how you were percieved by other players on the realm, your "skills" or lack thereof, your professions, what keys you had, even your personality... all meant so much. It was all rolled into you/your character and the connection was real.

I try to connect to my character these days but it's not the same at all, because none of those things matter any more. For me it's led to a kind of disconnect. Anyone feel the same?

I'm not advocating for you to do this. But are you literally so dumb that you haven't discovered the platform of ways to play the game you used to love? Why, for the love of god, do you spend time here complaining?

[barackohmama]

There are far more prestigeous mounts to be obtained in the game than there were in Classic, where the first grey Kodo was considered high end for a long time. Spoiler: Store mounts and Class mounts are not considered prestigeous in any shape or form.

But it's clear what type of posters you people are whom consider collections in an MMORPG to promote "anti social behaviour"... You mean like how Classic was fraught with ninja-looters whom just rolled new characters once they shot their reputation on one character to hell through their anti-social behaviour?

You want to return back to a time when reaching max level made you a hero and raiding was only demanding due to logistics because that reflects your capabilities? Fine, but the game hasn't been that since Classic ended, and stripping the game of all the things people care about in order to cater to the tiny "muh classics!!"-crowd whom never left 2005, would render it dead quicker than you can say "Wildstar"...

Now, time to go in-game and play with other people (today's players) having a bit higher standards for what constitutes prestige than the gear of a character downing a 2-ability boss that later purchased a kodo from a vendor. You keep lamenting the past to such an extent that you prevent yourself from experiencing those same things today, it's no skin off of any nose but your own.

Or just play on a private server, it's so engaging that most of the time once people are done with the few things available to do at max level, they'll sit in chats cirklejerking about how "retail players are clueless of the TRUE MAGIC of this game!!"...

What prestigious mounts? Only ones I can think of are the gladiator mounts and the higher prestige mounts. Most of the others are either easy to get aka Nightbane mount and mistress mount or stupidly low droprate like the Sha, Rukhmar mount. Apart form that there are tons of rep mounts and crafted mounts that everyone has anyway.

On the topic of ninja-looters. Ninja-looting itself is of course not social behaviour, but people who did it were blacklisted by a large portion of the _community_ and pretty much were pariah for a long time. Since people couldn't transfer to a different realm you got to know the player base after playing a while. You knew which people you could trust and which people you should avoid at all cost. While annoying, the drama was also entertaining at times.

I'm not saying raiding was better back in vanilla/tbc, because it wasn't. But it certainly wasn't only about resistance gear as some people want to believe. Skill wise it was easier, at least for dps. But as a tank it was quite challenging and unforgiving if I didn't play your class properly.

Please explain how you think the community is better now. With all the xrealm and phasing bullshit how do you relate to totally different team mates and opponents every time? Or do you like to play only within your small bubble, a.k.a your guild?

Many things are better in todays wow. It could actually be great. But the anti-social features/technology implemented and lack of community completely destroys the fundamental definition of a RPG.

[Queen of Hamsters]

*snip of nonsense*

Please explain how you think the community is better now. With all the xrealm and phasing bullshit how do you relate to totally different team mates and opponents every time? Or do you like to play only within your small bubble, a.k.a your guild?

Again, people were ninja-looting/cleaning out guild banks, and then they made new characters which nobody could track since there wasn't even real ID in place.

Unlike you, I don't play in a bubble, which is why I'm not busy crying about "what was lost hurr!" but instead am busy having fun, social interaction and sense of progression that matters (to me). The community is the same, bad apples and good. Organised gameplay has the same social demands as it ever did with the added requirements placed on your actual gameplay skill rather than you being given spots based purely on being max level and having certain pieces of gear.

You're even selective in your understanding on what mounts are available and to which extent they're obtained by the masses, so... /bored.

Go have your "superior community" on one of the private servers with a tiny population, no cross-realm and so on, they're entirely free from toxic, anti-social behaviour...

[khalltusk]

Back in Vanilla I would look at other peoples gear and think wow cool gear where did you it? Once I started raiding I only inspected people who would be joining our guild.

These days I would inspect people to check their xmog. Hell even get the odd whisper on mine from people. It's always fun to share items and where to get em.

The game has changed a lot but things still matter to me. Like story, progression in terms of gear/achievments. What other people do really is none of my business anymore. Gone are the days where I care what "x" guild has done or what ninjas are on my server.

[Deleted]

World of Warcraft still got the MMORPG tag on it, but it has become much more single player. Back in the days you really needed a guild or a group of friends to see everything. Nowadays you got LFR or LFD to do those things. I can't even remember the last time somebody whispered me xD

[Akka]

It's kind of thematic for everything to matter when you're worrying about surviving against a pack of wolves with a couple toothpicks.
It's equally thematic for nothing to matter when you're destroying gods and planets with world-rending magic hammers of destiny.

It may well be that we'll need to wait for a reboot for things to 'start mattering' again.

Power inflation does that. Small increments work better.

[Queen of Hamsters]

World of Warcraft still got the MMORPG tag on it, but it has become much more single player. Back in the days you really needed a guild or a group of friends to see everything. Nowadays you got LFR or LFD to do those things. I can't even remember the last time somebody whispered me xD

I can. I was whispered earlier by someone asking me where I got my bow-transmog.

And LFR and LFD are aimed at the lowest common denominator, IE the people whom never participate in organised content.
You still need a guild and griends and organised gameplay to get somewhere in-game that isn't considered the joke tier.

As with everything else: "Joe Schmoe" not experiencing something "anymore" =/= that something stopped happening and being present.

- - - Updated - - -

Back in Vanilla I would look at other peoples gear and think wow cool gear where did you it? Once I started raiding I only inspected people who would be joining our guild.

These days I would inspect people to check their xmog. Hell even get the odd whisper on mine from people. It's always fun to share items and where to get em.

The game has changed a lot but things still matter to me. Like story, progression in terms of gear/achievments. What other people do really is none of my business anymore. Gone are the days where I care what "x" guild has done or what ninjas are on my server.

Same experience here with gear through raiding and now transmog. It's safe to say that gear has a deeper meaning these days when it isn't just something you wear for a short period of time and then toss out once something with higher stats comes along.

And your post just highlights the case I've been making. Millions of people have cared and stopped caring about this game, for whatever reasons. That in no shape or form translates into "nothing matters and there's nothing to care about in-game these days!!" like some people in this thread likes to believe. ^^

[Mercane]

You're just doing the equivalent of plugging up your ears with your fingers going, "LA LA LA LA LA, I can't hear you."

This seems more in-line with your entire argument up until this point than anything Rorcanna has said. I've played since Vanilla, and I much prefer modern WoW to that fantasy tale you keep telling yourself existed then- then again, WoW wasn't my first MMO experience so I don't feel some type of way about those nostalgic early days as people that experienced it as their first foray into MMOs do. There's a few rather large Private servers you can circle jerk to the glory days of Vanilla on, you should probably check them out.

[Kallisto]

Nope, they're facts whether you want to accept them as such or not.

You continue to miss the point. A player in greens looking like a more skilled/more successful player negatively affects the game's visual prestige. Once, it was as clear as day to see what each player had earned. Now? Lol.

Oh I can right click and inspect someone, oh look now I know their gear is from mythic raids that are current tier. Hurray I found the person who actually does hardest content guys.

While the rest of us now don't look like missmatched idiots who would be embarrased to wear what they have to the point they wouldn't put it in missmatched mog contest in trial of style.

And again you move goal posts. It's also a fact that the best players don't always have the best gear, due to the aforementioned RNG aspect of Titanforge/Warforge.

Bullshit, best players still have best gear. No one is going to be heroic only or hell LFR only and be anywhere close in ilevel to mythic raiders. Stop inflating how much the 0-0001% titanforge does.

You don't know anything about the "server community' because you weren't even around back then. Blow smoke up someone else's ass, because your diatribe doesn't work on me.

Don't know what server you're on. But my server has a fully functioning community to the point we all have our own discord channel and skype channel which is fully alive.

And lastly, yet another lacking response. LFR allows Joe Schmoe to see all of Tomb and its bosses. This wasn't something that marginalized the best players during Classic/TBC, but how could you know that? Heh.

Yay 5% got to see raids, I as an investor would pull the plug on raids so fast if that was how many people saw raids. LFR does nothing to harm the hardcore, hell most hardcore don't give a fuck about it. Now 60-70% of people see raids and it actually means money well spent on the raid environment.

[barackohmama]

Again, people were ninja-looting/cleaning out guild banks, and then they made new characters which nobody could track since there wasn't even real ID in place.

Unlike you, I don't play in a bubble, which is why I'm not busy crying about "what was lost hurr!" but instead am busy having fun, social interaction and sense of progression that matters (to me). The community is the same, bad apples and good. Organised gameplay has the same social demands as it ever did with the added requirements placed on your actual gameplay skill rather than you being given spots based purely on being max level and having certain pieces of gear.

You're even selective in your understanding on what mounts are available and to which extent they're obtained by the masses, so... /bored.

Go have your "superior community" on one of the private servers with a tiny population, no cross-realm and so on, they're entirely free from toxic, anti-social behaviour...

Anyone who's not living in denial can see the realm community in wow has gone to shit. But I guess it doesn't matter what all those people in this thread tell you, since to you they are just living in the past. It's beyond me how people can think it's fun to see totally random people when you go out questing because you get "phased" or queue with total randoms who don't say a word(why would you when you wont meet again). And yes you are pretty much forced to play with randoms because no one reads chat anymore. With organised gameplay I supposed you mean guild runs. Guilds who hide in raids 3-4 hours a night and live in their own little bubble consisting of around 20-30 people during raids and a few "socials". Guilds people from their own realm never get interact with because they are either phased away or use the wonders of LFG to find extra players from totally different realms. I guess that's still around yeah.

No i'm not playing on private servers and yes i'm playing on live aswell otherwise i wouldn't be able to compare the two. Only better thing in todays wow is raiding(if you purely focus on raid encounters/mechanics) so that's why i'm still around.

Btw Nostalrius had more players than any wow realm, so it wasn't exactly tiny.

[Haywire5714]

As someone who played back in Vanilla and ever since, you aren't wrong about those points, however i dont think it is a bad thing. The only thing i miss is communities, everything else there was only there to satisfy less than 5% of the population and has only been better for a casual player now that they are gone. Hell raiders should be somewhat thankful, LFR is the only reason they have raids with unique assets and not more things like Gruuls lair or Tempest Keep.

Accomplishment, prestige and immersion did not exist to satisfy only 5% of the playerbase; they had very real effects on pretty much everyone that played during that time (Vanilla & TBC mainly).

Accomplishment: Every aspect of the game required a decent amount of effort to complete.

Prestige: You were not given mounts, epics & legendary gear for free, so there was prestige for the people that were able to obtain these items. Not to mention there was a feeling of satisfaction knowing that every player in the game wasn't able to obtain epic/legendary gear.

Immersion:
- Server community
- Seeing people in the world that you recognize
- Grouping with people in the world to complete certain quests
- Seeing people with cool gear & mounts (this is not immersive in modern WoW because everyone has these things for free)
- Exclusive content
- A bunch of little things like ground travel, active zone chats, keys for dungeons/raids, world pvp, summoning people to dungeons, etc

All of this stuff effected every caliber of player, and it all ties into the community as well ... the community couldn't have existed in the way that it did if these other elements were not present. That's not to say that Vanilla and TBC's systems for producing accomplishment, immersion, community and prestige were perfect because they weren't at all. But there should have been an effort to preserve these things while simultaneously removing the negatives of these expansions rather than wiping the slate clean and creating an entirely different type of game.

[SirBeef]

The effort it took to level a character to max level alone made it feel very personal to you. I remember referring to my characters by their names back then, where as now I mostly refer to them by "my rogue" or "my druid". I think that speaks volumes. Partly it's the way I play the game too though

I still prefer the way things are now, sacrifice some of the 'mattering' to gain access to more classes and what not. I play casually and don't invest much so it's fine by me

Time really. Effort was minimal. I didn't really think any of that stuff mattered. It was just a game I played with friends back then. It is still a game i play with friends today. Nothing more in regards to my feelings of it.

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Anyone who's not living in denial can see the realm community in wow has gone to shit. But I guess it doesn't matter what all those people in this thread tell you, since to you they are just living in the past. It's beyond me how people can think it's fun to see totally random people when you go out questing because you get "phased" or queue with total randoms who don't say a word(why would you when you wont meet again). And yes you are pretty much forced to play with randoms because no one reads chat anymore. With organised gameplay I supposed you mean guild runs. Guilds who hide in raids 3-4 hours a night and live in their own little bubble consisting of around 20-30 people during raids and a few "socials". Guilds people from their own realm never get interact with because they are either phased away or use the wonders of LFG to find extra players from totally different realms. I guess that's still around yeah.

No i'm not playing on private servers and yes i'm playing on live aswell otherwise i wouldn't be able to compare the two. Only better thing in todays wow is raiding(if you purely focus on raid encounters/mechanics) so that's why i'm still around.

Btw Nostalrius had more players than any wow realm, so it wasn't exactly tiny.

Realm populations were also capped. Nos was not.