crucible is gonna be a nightmare for raid leaders

[Tradu]

Serious guilds raid with a DKP system.

No, they don't(and haven't for a very long time), and even DKP gets fucked by this because people end up wasting DKP on items that end up useless through no fault of their own

[rhorle]

Yes, I said 3 neck enchants on 1 relic, which is entirely accurate, but as you pointed out "only" 2 of them(66%) are random, which is most definitely absurd.

I didn't say on 1 relic

There is no but to what I was talking about. As for being 66% random that is also not the case. Tier 2 has two options and tier 3 has three options. Each tier provides a non-repeating option. That makes it so it isn't 66% random because the player picks from a larger pool then 2/3rds. At this point you really should just stop trying.

[DeltrusDisc]

Their excuse is that this time it will ONLY happen with relics, so far less often. Also, previewing the relic trait in the crucible binds it.

So, if I understand correctly: the trait that is on a relic to put in your weapon is very likely NOT the trait that it will have in the Crucible? x_x

[rhorle]

No, they don't(and haven't for a very long time), and even DKP gets fucked by this because people end up wasting DKP on items that end up useless through no fault of their own

Just as they would if they take any other side grade or get a chance at another item in the same slot. You can make informed choices about relics that limit the chance at wasting the drop.

[Tradu]

There is no but to what I was talking about. As for being 66% random that is also not the case. Tier 2 has two options and tier 3 has three options. Each tier provides a non-repeating option. That makes it so it isn't 66% random because the player picks from a larger pool then 2/3rds. At this point you really should just stop trying.

When 2 out of 3 traits on the relic are random(even if you can pick from multiple options), that is 66% of traits being random.

[Zantos]

I thought they removed reforging because it was trivial with addons.

Yup. They said that it wasnt even hard to use since most people just reforged to their best stat. It, unlike now, at least made every piece of gear usable since even a lower quality piece with just 1 of the best stats worked since reforge was a thing.

I only see option 3 as the one who would need it. The first ones relic is probably better then the ilvl. The second one is passable. The third one, well, that is what happens when you go for ilvl over functionality.

[tikcol]

No, they don't(and haven't for a very long time), and even DKP gets fucked by this because people end up wasting DKP on items that end up useless through no fault of their own

I'm sorry but I don't consider a 7/9 guild to be a serious guild.

The DKP system has proven time and time again to be the best system for loot distribution. Only corrupt guilds employ the so called "loot for friends" system.

[Tradu]

Just as they would if they take any other side grade or get a chance at another item in the same slot. You can make informed choices about relics that limit the chance at wasting the drop.

Except it's not about "sidegrades". It's quite possible for an "upgrade" to not actually be an upgrade(if for example I get Dark Sorrows and one of the 2 0 DPS holy traits as T2 options and the only "DPS" trait in T3 is Whirlwind damage as a worst case, but there's lots of grey area with combinations of strong base trait + 2 mediocre random ones)

[rhorle]

When 2 out of 3 traits on the relic are random(even if you can pick from multiple options), that is 66% of traits being random.

No it isn't. Because the the two random traits are really 5 different random choices. The end result of 2 out of 3 are not straight up random chances since the player picks those. There are really 5 random traits for each relic and the player can pick 2 of those 5. One out of two t2 and 1 out of 3 tier 3. That doesn't translate to a 66% random trait chance.

Each relic has a 33.3% chance of t3 and a 50% chance of t2 traits.

[Tradu]

I'm sorry but I don't consider a 7/9 guild to be a serious guild.

The DKP system has proven time and time again to be the best system for loot distribution. Only corrupt guilds employ the so called "loot for friends" system.

Okay, so being in the top ~4k players doesn't count as serious, fair enough. Also we're 8/9, Avatar just so happened to die on the one night after 450+ wipes where I wasn't available. Unfortunately for you, not a single one of the top guilds(Method, Exorsus etc) uses DKP either.

- - - Updated - - -

No it isn't. Because the the two random traits are really 5 different random choices. The end result of 2 out of 3 are not straight up random chances since the player picks those. There are really 5 random traits for each relic and the player can pick 2 of those 5. One out of two t2 and 1 out of 3 tier 3. That doesn't translate to a 66% random trait chance.

Each relic has a 33.3% chance of t3 and a 50% chance of t2 traits.

T2 and T3 roll random traits. That is 66% of traits(very slightly less because of the base trait locking out 1 T3 option) being random. And the thing is, if they want a system to improve bad relics, they could easily do that without affecting the value of already good ones by just only having the "T3" traits and having the selection there replace the base trait. The problem is their obsession with "2 trait relics", which is only going to cause problems.

[rhorle]

Except it's not about "sidegrades". It's quite possible for an "upgrade" to not actually be an upgrade(if for example I get Dark Sorrows and one of the 2 0 DPS holy traits as T2 options and the only "DPS" trait in T3 is Whirlwind damage as a worst case, but there's lots of grey area with combinations of strong base trait + 2 mediocre random ones)

If your existing relic is that good then an upgrade with a better primary stat becomes more like a side grade. The NLC adds more factors to consider to what is an upgrade, side grade or downgrade to relics. But it doesn't make it impossible to make an informed decision on them.

[Onikaroshi]

Best part of crucible: watching the min/maxers have meltdowns. Personally always hated BiS, progression should be endless, it's an MMO, every time you log on you SHOULD have something to do, glad they're seeing that. Happy I have more to do then raid.

[tikcol]

Okay, so being in the top ~4k players doesn't count as serious, fair enough. Also we're 8/9, Avatar just so happened to die on the one night after 450+ wipes where I wasn't available. Unfortunately for you, not a single one of the top guilds(Method, Exorsus etc) uses DKP either.

- - - Updated - - -



T2 and T3 roll random traits. That is 66% of traits(very slightly less because of the base trait locking out 1 T3 option) being random.

I'm sorry but you're saying you're a member of a serious guild but happened not to be available ? Please, it's either a serious guild or it isn't.

Players are expected to have 100% attendance.

[shaunika123]

Serious guilds raid with a DKP system.

no, they most definitely not

[Valette]

How stupid would that be? Can you understand why Blizzard wouldn't want people doing that?

The first, most important thing about relics #1 is the ilvl. If it is an ilvl upgrade for you REGARDLESS of what trait you see on the relic, thats what you socket. The NLC is just an added bonus to making the relic more powerful.

How are you people not getting this? Am I missing.. am i missing something?

Im not one to complain on the nlc, but that is really not accurate. Torment the Weak, one of the nlc procs, has a value almost equal to 6 artifact ilevels. Thats like 20ish relic ilevels. Twice as powerful as my best weapon trait

[anon5123]

No, no, they removed it because they wanted you to be able to throw on new gear on the fly. It's why they removed a bunch of enchants, guaranteed gem sockets, etc.

We all get to throw on new gear immediately right? I for sure won't worry about simming multiple sets of gear to figure out which peice of my tier set to replace.

That and, given their comments about "ilvl upgrade should always be a better equip", I'm fully expecting them to just outright remove secondary stats on gear and have ilvl be the only number that appears on the tooltip.

[Tradu]

Best part of crucible: watching the min/maxers have meltdowns. Personally always hated BiS, progression should be endless, it's an MMO, every time you log on you SHOULD have something to do, glad they're seeing that. Happy I have more to do then raid.

Yeah, how great that a system gets added that negatively affects a minority of the playerbase while making basically no difference for the rest of the playerbase. It could just not exist and the game would be better for it. Legion already has absurd amounts of RNG to keep you "progressing endlessly", Crucible was not necessary on top of that.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm sorry but you're saying you're a member of a serious guild but happened not to be available ? Please, it's either a serious guild or it isn't.

Players are expected to have 100% attendance.

No guild expects 100% attendance, that's insane. Missing 1 raid night in the time I've been in the guild is not a big deal.

[Logwyn]

No, no, they removed it because they wanted you to be able to throw on new gear on the fly. It's why they removed a bunch of enchants, guaranteed gem sockets, etc.

We all get to throw on new gear immediately right?

You know what silly about this for me? When I get a new head or back piece I don't like to equip it in the middle of raid or right away. Why it messes with my don't show helmet and back piece transmog setup.

Stupid I know... but still.

[rhorle]

T2 and T3 roll random traits. That is 66% of traits(very slightly less because of the base trait locking out 1 T3 option) being random.

It can only be 66% if only one t2 trait and one t3 traits were random. The NLC makes it so each relic has a random chance at 5 extra traits. You get to pick two of those 5. You pick 66% of the traits on your relic. 84% of those traits are randomly generated.

[tikcol]

Im not one to complain on the nlc, but that is really not accurate. Torment the Weak, one of the nlc procs, has a value almost equal to 6 artifact ilevels. Thats like 20ish relic ilevels. Twice as powerful as my best weapon trait

Wrong. No relic trait is worth more than 6 ilevels.

You're doing it wrong.