Thoughts about wow now and then. ?

[Deleted]

Hi Everyone

So to start this thread out, i would like to tell you my start in the world of warcraft.


Iam one of the players who have been here from the start, meaning i have played all the RTS games, even played war3 TFT on a high level. So when i heard about WOW, i was super hyped!. I allready loved the lore from the RTS.

So i got a beta key from blizzard, i tried it out and i was in love!. I stoped playing the rts game all together, leveled my first toon to 60 (Rogue Dwarf). Would like to say, back in the day we only had green gear, some blue gear from dungeons. There was the lucky ones who got the EPIC BOEs!!!!. Anyway way, back in the day people looked up to the people who got epic gear, epic mount and so on. So when i was leveling my rogue, my goal was to be as epic as the ppl with epic gear was. The goal was the thing that made me keep going on with wow. When i hit level 60, my first though was to farm 5mans to get full blue gear!, when i had full blue gear and some fire res gear, i was rdy to enter MC (when the raid was out). I managed to clear most raids in vanilla. Iknow that it wasn't a big % who got to clear all content in vanilla, even in TBC or warth.


But here is the thing, the GOAL keeps players going on, even if they dont get to the main goal. Lets take a great example: In TBC there was attuments, meaning you had to do every raid to get to BT. Iknow alot of people who only got to Karazan and not a step future. BUT they loved it, they knew that there was something keep working for.!

And another thing, back in the day, i was on thottbot or wowhead EVERY day when i was in school, to look up the awesome epic items i really wanted. This is a thing i dont do anymore, i think its

If we fast forward to today. Everyone can clear everything in LFR. Epics drops like crazy, now we got easy leggos aswell. Meaning the epic feeling is kinda gone?
I think wow have lost the "goal factor".

Now to my question: Do you guys/girls agree with me on this, that wow dont have as mutch to look forward to as it had in the old days?

The biggest thing i would love blizzard to change was to make it so all 5mans give blue gear only. LFR give blue gear MAX. Would love to have attument back as well, but thats kinda of a dream only ;D


What do you all think ? Iam super wrong in this or do you think the same thing ?

Thanks! Have a really nice day all of you!

[Cyanu]

seriously get over this stupid vendetta with LFR, it's just for casuals or pvpers who want to see the story once and never raid again, the rewards are crap anyways so you can't claim that it's free epics, by the time you get something with little effort it's already dramatically devalued due to something way better (aka next tier) being released so it won't mean much anyways

after all how low do those 'filthy casuals' (some of which btw were once hardcore with a crapload of achievements to show) have to sink? hardcore or quest greenies only?

the goal is still there in mythic raiding (race for world firsts etc), mythic+ dungeons which can get quite challenging past a point and high end ranked pvp

so imo you're wrong

[deniter]

You are right, and i very much agree it's the goal that keeps players going on. But unfortunately WoW has way too many problems nowadays, and they can't be fixed by an easy and fast way.

We need a new game designed by a new team with a different philosophy than the current crew.

[Deleted]

I had to check the date if we're really in 2017 and not 2012 when threads like this are still getting made.

- - - Updated - - -

You are right, and i very much agree it's the goal that keeps players going on. But unfortunately WoW has way too many problems nowadays, and they can't be fixed by an easy and fast way.

We need a new game designed by a new team with a different philosophy than the current crew.

Uh, just play a different game then? There are lots out there.

[Deleted]

seriously get over this stupid vendetta with LFR, it's just for casuals or pvpers who want to see the story once and never raid again, the rewards are crap anyways so you can't claim that it's free epics, by the time you get something with little effort it's already dramatically devalued due to something way better (aka next tier) being released so it won't mean much anyways

after all how low do those 'filthy casuals' (some of which btw were once hardcore with a crapload of achievements to show) have to sink? hardcore or quest greenies only?

the goal is still there in mythic raiding (race for world firsts etc), mythic+ dungeons which can get quite challenging past a point and high end ranked pvp

so imo you're wrong

Iknow the goal is mythic raiding, but its not a cool as it was in the old days. When you saw a guy with FULL nightslayer or bloodfang, you would stop up and look at this dude and say "wow dude your tooo cool" . This dont happen anymore. And the casuals dont really care ,because they can get the same gear from LFR just in another color. Yeah the mythic raider get BETTER gear and COOL achievements, but that is not nearly as cool as cool gear and showing it off.

[Echo of Soul]

Yes in terms of character progression there's no linear path you have to walk anymore and what gear you equip is determined by a dice roll, not the item itself so planning and setting goals for yourself doesn't really exist anymore. The micro management part when it comes to gear is pretty much gutted too, something I really enjoyed. The hamster wheel have also gotten a lot smaller so there's that.

This game is not made for me and people like me anymore so I quit, that's all you can really do about it. If I want to go back and experience the old WoW that I loved there are a bunch of decent private servers where I can do that so it's not that big of a deal. Ideally I'd like them to go back to the design philosophy they had during TBC and WotLK to a certain extent but that will never happen, if anything they'll move further away from it so there's no point obsessing over it.

[Deleted]

Hi Everyone

So to start this thread out, i would like to tell you my start in the world of warcraft.


Iam one of the players who have been here from the start, meaning i have played all the RTS games, even played war3 TFT on a high level. So when i heard about WOW, i was super hyped!. I allready loved the lore from the RTS.

So i got a beta key from blizzard, i tried it out and i was in love!. I stoped playing the rts game all together, leveled my first toon to 60 (Rogue Dwarf). Would like to say, back in the day we only had green gear, some blue gear from dungeons. There was the lucky ones who got the EPIC BOEs!!!!. Anyway way, back in the day people looked up to the people who got epic gear, epic mount and so on. So when i was leveling my rogue, my goal was to be as epic as the ppl with epic gear was. The goal was the thing that made me keep going on with wow. When i hit level 60, my first though was to farm 5mans to get full blue gear!, when i had full blue gear and some fire res gear, i was rdy to enter MC (when the raid was out). I managed to clear most raids in vanilla. Iknow that it wasn't a big % who got to clear all content in vanilla, even in TBC or warth.


But here is the thing, the GOAL keeps players going on, even if they dont get to the main goal. Lets take a great example: In TBC there was attuments, meaning you had to do every raid to get to BT. Iknow alot of people who only got to Karazan and not a step future. BUT they loved it, they knew that there was something keep working for.!

And another thing, back in the day, i was on thottbot or wowhead EVERY day when i was in school, to look up the awesome epic items i really wanted. This is a thing i dont do anymore, i think its

If we fast forward to today. Everyone can clear everything in LFR. Epics drops like crazy, now we got easy leggos aswell. Meaning the epic feeling is kinda gone?
I think wow have lost the "goal factor".

Now to my question: Do you guys/girls agree with me on this, that wow dont have as mutch to look forward to as it had in the old days?

The biggest thing i would love blizzard to change was to make it so all 5mans give blue gear only. LFR give blue gear MAX. Would love to have attument back as well, but thats kinda of a dream only ;D


What do you all think ? Iam super wrong in this or do you think the same thing ?

Thanks! Have a really nice day all of you!

You're wrong, and you're right. The changes to 5 mans have been the literal best thing to hit WoW since they made them hard for a couple of months at the beginning of Cata. However, that, plus Warforged/Titanforged, plus LFR, has lead to the lack of a goal related specifically to gear. So if you're focused on that, yeah, it's not great right now. I know for certain that I used to have detailed lists of every drop I wanted every tier. Short of one trinket this tier, and one cloak (fuck you, Lower Kara) I couldn't give two fucks, there's no point.

Reassess your goals. For me, it's mythic + scores. Don't have a regular team, so I'm never going to be world class, but it's fun to track myself on wowprogress. Thinking about it if I did have a regular team, I wouldn't care so much about my m+ score - it's pugs that made me aim to improve it. So er... thanks, pugs.. I guess...

[Deleted]

I think it's a difficult balance, I can sort of understand your argument but I don't really agree.
Wow nowadays offers so much to do, you can have countless of goals and things to strive for, the main difference is that raids aren't locked away to the 1% and that gear isn't as exlusive to difficuly content.
I feel like the issue doesn't lie within blizzard's game design at all, they're doing a great job and the game is more enjoyable than ever. The issue is with us players, we're getting tired of the game because we've been playing it for so long, which isn't really something anyone can do anything about. The reason why it feels less epic is because of nostalgia. It's become watered down which is sad, because I experience that too.
And I also believe it's kinda a one time switch, they can't really go back to not having LFR now for instance, and it wouldn't really solve the problem.

[Cæli]

pleasure lies in collecting now, and the new epic is mythic purple/legendary

[FreshKamel]

Think the game is better now though not as exciting since the whole concept of WoW isn't as revolutionary anymore. Plus I'm older.

Only thing I genuinely miss about the past is that end-game wasn't everything. I loved it when the highest level was the ultimate goal (for me) instead of raids.

[Wheeljack]

I feel like the issue doesn't lie within blizzard's game design at all, they're doing a great job and the game is more enjoyable than ever. The issue is with us players, we're getting tired of the game because we've been playing it for so long, which isn't really something anyone can do anything about. The reason why it feels less epic is because of nostalgia. It's become watered down which is sad, because I experience that too.
And I also believe it's kinda a one time switch, they can't really go back to not having LFR now for instance, and it wouldn't really solve the problem.

Perfectly summarizes my thoughts on the topic as well.
11 years ago, I spent the better part of 3 months to get to level 60. Learning as I went. It was a new game, new classes, new gameworld, new interface and new game mechanics. As those 11 years passed, along with them I sunk probably 4-500 days worth of actual playtime, a variety of classes and roles played and hundreds, if not thousands of experiences and "A-ha" moments.

So when Blizzard releases new areas, new quests, new spells and even new classes. I adept to those far more quickly than I did on my first char(s). Simply because of the time I've put into playing. I know too much at this point.

I still enjoy the game alot, but I blame the shortcomings of my enjoyment on myself, rather than what's available. Objectively speaking, there has NEVER been so much to do in World of Warcraft... ever.

[Azarko]

Hi,

While I get that some people will consider this post bashing on LFR and other things.
I personally think this post does carry a deeper message.

I can fully agree on the fact that the game is handing out rewards in a quick fashion.
Even when legion just started (not now with all the catch up mechanics) i hit lvl cap and was fully equiped in epic gear in a few days. (if you get lucky on the RNG)
However I do see from a design perpective on blizzards end that designing a content for just a few % of the playerbase is not a good standpoint.

This post to me talks about the feeling of epicness. You used to start out in blues and work yourselfs to epic over months time.
In this time you might be wearing all blues, but no one will notice since you wear a transmog anyway. you used to be able to spot a top raider from across the city.
Now i'm not saying transmog should be removed (I love transmog!). But I do agree that it did take away a certain aspect of granduer from the game.

The underlying message I am getting from this post, along with my point of view, is that the epicness is gone.
This could be because we have played too long. I have been playing since 2004 myself.

A stupidly fast solution that comes to mind is, keep us in blue gear longer.
Make LFR drop blue gear, and put value in that purple epicness again.

This might just stimulate a LFR raider to finally try that normal in a guild group and might just trigger him to improve himself and improve his guild.
Meaning that at that point we have a new raider in the community.

PS: I'm not a fan of LFR, but I understand why it's there. But it should be IMO more a taste of raiding. Pushing people intrested into normal raiding and further up the difficulty curve.

[Deleted]

Now to my question: Do you guys/girls agree with me on this, that wow dont have as mutch to look forward to as it had in the old days?

I have seen this argument quite a lot of times in these forums, and i am sorry but the people who bring this topic from time to time, seem to not understand how different is the wow nowadays demographic, compared to the existant one in the old days.
It is true that in the old days players saw another player decked in purples, and it was an incentive to play the game even more, but back then the game was fresh, new, HUGE, everybody had their hands full with tons of NEW things to do, so yeah the reaction when seeing someone with far better loot than the one you had was positive.
Nowadays the reaction would be something along the lines of "i am paying the same as that dude why i do not have his gear?", or "i do not want to raid, why are they forcing me to raid?".
There is one thing i will give activision-blizzard credit for, from a financial point they know what it is best to squeeze the game to the limit.

[Deleted]

I have seen this argument quite a lot of times in these forums, and i am sorry but the people who bring this topic from time to time, seem to not understand how different is the wow nowadays demographic, compared to the existant one in the old days.
It is true that in the old days players saw another player decked in purples, and it was an incentive to play the game even more, but back then the game was fresh, new, HUGE, everybody had their hands full with tons of NEW things to do, so yeah the reaction when seeing someone with far better loot than the one you had was positive.
Nowadays the reaction would be something along the lines of "i am paying the same as that dude why i do not have his gear?", or "i do not want to raid, why are they forcing me to raid?".
There is one thing i will give activision-blizzard credit for, from a financial point they know what it is best to squeeze the game to the limit.

So the mentality you describe is "i want everything, but not do a thing for it". should games really bent over for this?

[Deleted]

So the mentality you describe is "i want everything, but not do a thing for it". should games really bent over for this?

The mentality is more along the lines of "i want everything, but only do the aspects of the game i like", and if games should or should not bent over for this, i think that is a question for game developers/publishers.

[Seranthor]

Thanks! Have a really nice day all of you!

The 'old' days are gone, grow up and get over the hate you have for other people getting decent gear.

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You are right, and i very much agree it's the goal that keeps players going on. But unfortunately WoW has way too many problems nowadays, and they can't be fixed by an easy and fast way.

We need a new game designed by a new team with a different philosophy than the current crew.

Then be that designer, be that financier, nothing in the world stopping you from designing your own game the way you want it.

- - - Updated - - -

Iknow the goal is mythic raiding, but its not a cool as it was in the old days. When you saw a guy with FULL nightslayer or bloodfang, you would stop up and look at this dude and say "wow dude your tooo cool" . This dont happen anymore. And the casuals dont really care ,because they can get the same gear from LFR just in another color. Yeah the mythic raider get BETTER gear and COOL achievements, but that is not nearly as cool as cool gear and showing it off.

Your ego wont sustain the game.

[Sencha]

The 'old' days are gone

Yep. Now it's just a collection game for facebook players who don't like effort.

[Currently Retired]

The thing I miss the most isn't the non-existence of LFD or LFR, but how big the zones used to be - compare the Boring Tundra to something like Azsuna. Only thing which might make Azsuna look big is how the terrain is made - hills and mountains which block the way so you always have to go around (Unless you have flying).
For me Legion is the first expansion where the zones feel like mazes for real.
MoP is still my favourite tho, and Jade Forest is kind of big as well. There's that.

[Seranthor]

Yep. Now it's just a collection game for facebook players who don't like effort.

And you are entitled to your opinion.

[unbound]

My thoughts align well with the OP.

Leggos today as a rare drop is an insanely stupid idea. It's basically a variation of a time gate.

Raids don't really feel like progression because it is the same fight with a minor change, but drops the same gear with better numbers. Furthermore, the catch-up mechanics now allow new players to completely bypass old content. You can level a new toon, and be geared for normal ToS in the matter of a couple of days, never stepping foot in earlier raids of this expansion.

Even raid mechanics feel so much more dumbed down than in the past. In the past, you would have to figure out how you were going to deal with mechanics, and having different classes / specs in the raid made a different in how you approached. This meant that if you leveled an alt, even if it is the same role, what you did changed. Not anymore, now every tank, heal, mdps, and rdps do exactly the same thing.

Remember having to mark mobs? Almost never happens anymore.

Remember being able to clear initial raids, and still not able to pull massive mobs out of top level dungeons? Doesn't happen anymore. (Heck, even if you don't clear raids, top level dungeons are a joke...so Blizz put in the same lazy mechanic they did in raids with M and M+)

And now even the much hyped artifact weapon is pointless with the catch up mechanics as you will have everything filled out within minutes of reaching 110. Not that it was ever as good as many made it out to be...Blizz just embedded baseline boosts into the artifact; they could have been there from the moment you reach 110 at the very beginning of the expansion, and it would work out just as well.

The game today feels more like a card game where you are just collecting things than an RPG anymore. Getting lucky and collecting the right cards puts you way ahead, and anyone trying to catch up is excluded from the top for extended periods of time until the leggo RNG rolls in their favor...not excluded because of their lack of ability.

And you see the impact in the play of the game. Many players aren't even interested in the best part of any game (aka challenge), opting for insane iLvl requirements just to ensure the run is as quick and boring as possible.