Can Conservatives ever quit the Southern Strategy?

[Scathbais]

So are the Clintons, but I'm SURE you feel the same way about them, oh wait.

You are speaking from ignorance. The Clinton's were "dead broke" when they left the white house and made millions by using Hillary's secretary of state position to sell influence. Foreign countries and the elite paid millions into the Clinton foundation and directly to the Clinton's "speaking fees" in exchange for political favors. That is where they got their wealth from. Trump had his billions prior to running for office. He doesn't even take a salary, but instead donates it to charity.

[Scathbais]

1) We don't know for sure if he even is a Billionaire, no economist worth a damn believes he is worth near what he claims and by all accounts, he is worth less than if he had never worked a day in his life and just invested it.

2) Fake billionaires can actually be bribed fairly easily with large amounts as it helps to help fund that lie and to get them closer to turning that lie into a reality.

3) Even real billionaires can be bribed with large amounts of money, especially if they already feel untouchable. They passed the point of needing the money a LONG time before that point and they are just running up the high score at that point.

Remember this is a guy who tries to use his charity to purchase stuff for him instead of spending his own money and is actively trying to funnel taxpayer money into his businesses. Bribing him is still possible, especially if he is lying about his overall worth.

something something *conspiracy theory* something something. Come back when you have facts.

[Theodarzna]

There are nations that are made up of people of different backgrounds that don't have the same deep seated hatred found in most the world. It can be done, but yeah we are a long ways off. People gotta remember it wasn't long all major nations had a king, queen, emperor, or someone ordained by gods. Now that seems silly to most people.

I cannot name one where one dominate ethnic group either rules pretty much unopposed or rules after centuries of savagely marginalizing the other cultures around it. For example Americans, despite relatively few if any being ethnically English, still speak the language of the founding ethnic group. In China there are/were many ethnic groups but the language of the Han, the language of Mandarin has become the dominate power and is enforced by the will of the State upon Manchu, Ughyrs and Tibetians ect. Actually I cannot off the top of my head think of any lasting utopia as you describe, other than maybe Switzerland where they are all segregated in different regions.

As for Kings and Queens, Yes, we have oligarchs now. *eyeroll*

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1) We don't know for sure if he even is a Billionaire, no economist worth a damn believes he is worth near what he claims and by all accounts, he is worth less than if he had never worked a day in his life and just invested it.

2) Fake billionaires can actually be bribed fairly easily with large amounts as it helps to help fund that lie and to get them closer to turning that lie into a reality.

3) Even real billionaires can be bribed with large amounts of money, especially if they already feel untouchable. They passed the point of needing the money a LONG time before that point and they are just running up the high score at that point.

Remember this is a guy who tries to use his charity to purchase stuff for him instead of spending his own money and is actively trying to funnel taxpayer money into his businesses. Bribing him is still possible, especially if he is lying about his overall worth.

It depends on the individual and their goals. But while Money usually almost always equals power, you actually have to do the work of translating cash into power over people. Plenty of wealthy people are perfectly happy with a life of tolerant hedonism, but many get tired of cocaine and hookers and want meaning, or genuinely have some hair-brained view that they can remake a better world or something.

The Clintons obviously enjoy the cash flow, posh lifestyle and power they enjoyed. I have no doubt Trumps motivations aren't super different. He may even sincerely believe in some political projects, just as Hillary might have believed in something. But the addiction of having power can be in a sense its own reward. Because once you have more money than most countries and even many religions, what do you do with it?

[Theodarzna]

I said better, I never said how much better.

Same thing is happening with racism. It's getting better just extremely slow. It was less than a century ago that some in the had lynched a black kid as a public spectacle. No one in hell even with all the racism we have, could you have so many people be cool with that happening and then writing a nice story about it in the paper. We've come a long way from kings, queens, and mass slavery. Things will keep getting better.

I'm not necessarily convinced its better. Considering Bourgeois Capitalism creation of the worst and now global ecological/environmental crisis, our overuse of antibiotics and the general alienating problems of our societies, I am less sold that modernity is all ups. Then again I am not one to believe in a "Triumphal march of Progress!" narrative of history or "Arc of History" style thinking.

Nothing thus in my view gets better, even if less lynchings happen; the strength and loyalty of black identity remains as strong now as the worst days of klan lynching. Black solidarity remains high. White solidarity is also reformulating, typically among the White underclass, into a fairly cohesive if unsocially accepted group identity. Admittedly slightly different from the Southern Strategy in that its largely Working Class Whites in former Union Labor areas that the Democrats forsook ages ago.

But nothing you say answers a single thing I actually said originally accept to hand wave and say "In tomorrowland all these issues will be gone because of REASONS!" You talk as if its fate or destiny, like the second coming of Jesus and Judgement Day. Can you name any of these functioning societies that are entirely the Bourgeois Liberal Capitalist cosmopolitan utopia? All I see are resource hog countries of dislocated atomized people hurdling towards ruin from severe environmental destruction.

[PC2]

Why? The effects of identity in politics are extremely beneficial to group cohesion and group success. After all the Black Community has achieved a great deal from its identity based politics, the White Working Class and Hispanics, as well as pretty much every group has achieved its ends and interests only through that and at the end of the day people want to belong to something and have some sense of community. If ones Civic polity is meaningless, indistinct or otherwise just a sterile bureaucratic instrument, ethnic identity becomes the only anchor of identity left and the only thing left standing for people to orient around for any sort of political action or mass movements.

Identity was never the powerful source of those civil rights achievements. In every case it was the universality of the argument and the rejection that different individual attributes are the true source of worthyness.

You're right about human psychological tendencies. People want belonging and community. My main disagreement with you is about what is more likely to prevail. Your argument makes it seem like identity politics is an inevitable destination that heterogeneous societies settle at. But I don't see how identity politics is sustainable for a particular country when there are competing countries which will support ideas based on independent merit.

[Orbitus]

This too. Stop it with the 'ebul voter ID laws'. It's just a smokescreen to let people who don't have the right to vote be able to.

Except there is no evidence that supports your claim. But yet, there are literally millions of people that can't afford to take time off to go to the DMV to get an ID that works for voting.

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hahaha so wikipedia is your source? You mean a "source" that anyone can edit and change in the world? Yeah, nice one. And just because some apologizes doesn't mean the "southern strategy" was actually a thing. Get with the facts, you might be a little more enlightened if you do.

I'll leave you with another video so hopefully you can figure it out:

If your evidence is PragerU, then you already lost.

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You have zero factual information so support this statement.

Do you understand how many people travel with the president? All of those people need rooms, and all of them are comped by the United States Government. And his shitty hotels aren't cheap. He has a couple hundred people, at THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS a night, that go around with him everywhere he goes.

He charged the secret service $65,000 to use his fucking elevator in Trump Tower.

You have NO FUCKING CLUE what you are talking about.

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You are speaking from ignorance. The Clinton's were "dead broke" when they left the white house and made millions by using Hillary's secretary of state position to sell influence. Foreign countries and the elite paid millions into the Clinton foundation and directly to the Clinton's "speaking fees" in exchange for political favors. That is where they got their wealth from. Trump had his billions prior to running for office. He doesn't even take a salary, but instead donates it to charity.

You do know they investigated that right? And everything was cleared? Also they cannot touch the Clinton Foundation money. Trump may not be taking a salary, but he gets MORE than $400k a WEEKEND every time he fucking travels from the people that follow him. He has already spent more on travel and vacations that Obama did over 8 years in less than 9 fucking months.

[Theodarzna]

Identity was never the powerful source of those civil rights achievements. In every case it was the universality of the argument and the rejection that different individual attributes are the true source of worthyness.

You're right about human psychological tendencies. People want belonging and community. My main disagreement with you is about what is more likely to prevail. Your argument makes it seem like identity politics is an inevitable destination that heterogeneous societies settle at. But I don't see how identity politics is sustainable for a particular country when there are competing countries which will support ideas based on independent merit.

Right, I forgot the popular mythos spawned by a single MLK speech intended for a wider audience is how nearly every American chooses to understand that era and why American centrists and conservatives are confused by things like Black Lives Matter and Black Identity as if it were a new phenomena. Ignoring MLK's later years of coming closer to Malcolm X ect, or the ineffectiveness of it until Black Identity and Black Power movements became visible forces in the country as opposed to just a latent communal solidarity among black people in their shared origin and marginalization in the United States.

As to countries based on merit? None exist. Privilege, and Group politics is the essence of politics in general. People vote as bloc's to achieve the aims a single atomized person cannot do. Identity politics is not just sustainable, it will be the only politics left standing, particularly if the atomizing logics of Globalization and Neo-Liberalism are allowed to rule the world.

[Tijuana]

Watching the Virginia Governor's race and caught the new ad from Ed Gillespie. Gillespie was a future looking Republican. He chaired the Republican National Committee under President George W. Bush, playing a key role in pushing Bush’s failed efforts at comprehensive immigration reform. He was one of the masterminds behind Bush’s 2004 campaign that actively wooed Latinos — including the “Viva Bush” yard signs that popped up across the nation — and helped Bush hit the high water mark of recent GOP nominees with more than 40 percent of the Hispanic vote, according to exit polls. Also working as chairman of the Republican State Leadership Committee, a group focused on state-level races, Gillespie laid out the goal of recruiting 100 Hispanic GOP candidates for the 2014 elections.

Now after narrowly losing the GOP primary to Corey "Save the Confederate Statues" Stewart. Last October, Stewart appeared on a show hosted by Mike Cernovich, a member of the pro-Trump, far-right media who has dismissed the existence of date rape. Two months ago, Stewart participated in an "ask me anything" session on Reddit's largest pro-Trump forum, where, among other things, he called Gillespie a "cuckservative."

The primary experience seems to have driven Gillespie further to the right. Making him abandon his previous positions on immigrant and minority outreach. Illegal Immigration seems to be the new incarnation of dog whistle that used to feature welfare queens and Willie Horton Jr. Feels like the Southern Strategy has found new life.

“Who will keep your family safe?” begins the attack ad, blasting the Democratic candidate for casting “the deciding vote in favor of sanctuary cities that let illegal immigrants back on the street,” over the sound of police sirens.

You know what they called it before they called it the "Southern Strategy"? Democrat Strategy.

Obviously, using this term in a modern sense is ridiculous. The notion that the South is as racist as it was under Democrat rule in the 60's, and prior, is pants on head retarded.

[Glorious Leader]

Says common sense? How can you bribe a billionaire? He has everything he could ever want.

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You assume based on zero facts. The only facts are that he is wealthy beyond the need to allow people to buy his favor.

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You have zero factual information so support this statement.

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Says common sense? How can you bribe a billionaire? He has everything he could ever want.

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Your convenient ignorance regarding the Clinton's finances is astounding. Remember they were dead broke when they left the white house and then used their foundation and Hillary's position as secretary of state to trade influence for millions of dollars. That is why they are now extremely wealthy.

Now youre speaking out of ignorance. Trump is not a billionaire or at least that cant be proven since he wont release his tax returns. Considering his multiple prior bankruptcies its equally likely hes broke as hell.

In any event it wouldnt matter of course you can bribe billionaires. You give them more money. Its not as if trump cant enrich himself further.

[Tijuana]

Why? The effects of identity in politics are extremely beneficial to group cohesion and group success. After all the Black Community has achieved a great deal from its identity based politics, the White Working Class and Hispanics, as well as pretty much every group has achieved its ends and interests only through that and at the end of the day people want to belong to something and have some sense of community. If ones Civic polity is meaningless, indistinct or otherwise just a sterile bureaucratic instrument, ethnic identity becomes the only anchor of identity left and the only thing left standing for people to orient around for any sort of political action or mass movements.

This is a ludicrous series of statements. Identity politics is divisive, and a scourge upon decency. It pits everyone against a perceived majority, despite the fact that the sum of the groups, when added together, IS THE MAJORITY. It's completely nonsensical, and bigoted, to subscribe to dividing people up by identity.

The morally superior method, is to stand for the smallest minority of them all: The individual. Group think is not a good thing, and it leads to tyranny.

[BrerBear]

You are speaking from ignorance. The Clinton's were "dead broke" when they left the white house and made millions by using Hillary's secretary of state position to sell influence. Foreign countries and the elite paid millions into the Clinton foundation and directly to the Clinton's "speaking fees" in exchange for political favors. That is where they got their wealth from. Trump had his billions prior to running for office. He doesn't even take a salary, but instead donates it to charity.

Wow, you just soak up every bit of propaganda that comes your way. A very useful tool you are.

You know the Clintons' tax returns showing all their income and charitable donations are freely available online back for like twenty years? The Clintons made their post-White House money from books and business speeches at pretty standard celebrity/politician/sportsman rates. They put millions into the Clinton Foundation and take none out.

Trump, on the other hand, has broken his promise to reveal his tax returns, and there is mounting evidence it's because he isn't worth nearly as much as he claims. Hence, his need to grift the government for all sorts of small change. Trump hadn't donated to his charity foundation for years, instead spending other business people's money to buy items like personal portraits for himself. And reneging on his donation promises until journalists repeatedly called him on it.

[Fugus]

Because once you have more money than most countries and even many religions, what do you do with it?

Get more of it.

It isn't a case of what you need or what effects you, you passed that point long before you hit that level. It is just a case of more is better. Especially when you compare yourself to other like-minded individuals.

[Sky High]

You are speaking from ignorance. The Clinton's were "dead broke" when they left the white house and made millions by using Hillary's secretary of state position to sell influence. Foreign countries and the elite paid millions into the Clinton foundation and directly to the Clinton's "speaking fees" in exchange for political favors. That is where they got their wealth from. Trump had his billions prior to running for office. He doesn't even take a salary, but instead donates it to charity.

Speaking of ignorance, and you're boring me with it, we're talking about a guy who was a real estate investor in New York during the
80's-90's who not so secretly did deals with the Mob, not so secretly has done "deals" all over the world, and as far as we know is millions of dollars in debt to foreign entities. But I'm sure a guy who had to be prodded to keep his promise to donate money to veterans and has been given dozens of gifts from the Sauds (who he also does business with) has NO reason to enrich himself. Yeah again you're boring me with the Trump cu-koolaid drinking.

[Theodarzna]

This is a ludicrous series of statements. Identity politics is divisive, and a scourge upon decency. It pits everyone against a perceived majority, despite the fact that the sum of the groups, when added together, IS THE MAJORITY. It's completely nonsensical, and bigoted, to subscribe to dividing people up by identity.

The morally superior method, is to stand for the smallest minority of them all: The individual. Group think is not a good thing, and it leads to tyranny.

All politics is divisive, not all agree, people have competing objectives. Everyone is against each other, even if you do not wish to acknowledge it. People divide themselves up by identity as is. There never was nor ever will be a day when that isn't true.

[Elba]

This is a ludicrous series of statements. Identity politics is divisive, and a scourge upon decency. It pits everyone against a perceived majority, despite the fact that the sum of the groups, when added together, IS THE MAJORITY. It's completely nonsensical, and bigoted, to subscribe to dividing people up by identity.

The morally superior method, is to stand for the smallest minority of them all: The individual. Group think is not a good thing, and it leads to tyranny.

Maybe the "majority", or rather, group in power, should have not started it then.

Black people would have no reason to complain about racism if whites hadn't enslaved, lynched and later made them second class citizens.

Gay and trans people would have no reason to complain about homo- / transphobia if straights had not been, and would not still be, discriminating against them and murder them.

Women would have no reason to complain about misogyny if men would not have, and still are, been violating, raping and treating them like second class citizens.

Identity politics started when whites, straights and men decided they were better than the others.

[PC2]

Maybe the "majority", or rather, group in power, should have not started it then.

Black people would have no reason to complain about racism if whites hadn't enslaved, lynched and later made them second class citizens.

Gay and trans people would have no reason to complain about homo- / transphobia if straights had not been, and would not still be, discriminating against them and murder them.

Women would have no reason to complain about misogyny if men would not have, and still are, been violating, raping and treating them like second class citizens.

Identity politics started when whites, straights and men decided they were better than the others.

Okay but even if you vote in somebody to politics based on all these complaints they still can't force certain identity groups to adopt productive practices and they cant hand you money based on identity traits. Politics based on identity creates entertaining drama, but it doesn't solve any hard problems.

[Shibito]

US Politics versus globe, L to R:

Socialist countries -- Scandanavian countries -- Canada -- Rest of Western Europe -- US liberals -- US Moderates--South American Countries -- Eastern Europe/Russia --US Conservatives --Middle Eastern Countries

Just saying.

Fyi the dems in the us is faaaaar to the right of our most right leaning party FRP in norway. Also we scandi countries are socialdemocratic not socialist.

[Celista]

Fyi the dems in the us is faaaaar to the right of our most right leaning party FRP in norway. Also we scandi countries are socialdemocratic not socialist.

Well next time I'll make more dash marks to emphasize the differences. I don't think Scandinavian countries are socialist, otherwise I would have just lumped you in with "socialist countries" lol.

I also should have included communist countries to the left of socialist ones, also some other things.

[Scathbais]

Speaking of ignorance, and you're boring me with it, we're talking about a guy who was a real estate investor in New York during the
80's-90's who not so secretly did deals with the Mob, not so secretly has done "deals" all over the world, and as far as we know is millions of dollars in debt to foreign entities. But I'm sure a guy who had to be prodded to keep his promise to donate money to veterans and has been given dozens of gifts from the Sauds (who he also does business with) has NO reason to enrich himself. Yeah again you're boring me with the Trump cu-koolaid drinking.

The only thing worse than ignorance is willful ignorance. I am done talking to you.

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Wow, you just soak up every bit of propaganda that comes your way. A very useful tool you are.

Even the liberal NY Times got on Clinton over the cash flows she received from entities tied to the Russian government in exchange for allowing Russian to gain control of US uranium interests.

The only "tool" here is you. I am done arguing with idiots. TTFN.

[Orbitus]

The only thing worse than ignorance is willful ignorance. I am done talking to you.

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Even the liberal NY Times got on Clinton over the cash flows she received from entities tied to the Russian government in exchange for allowing Russian to gain control of US uranium interests.

The only "tool" here is you. I am done arguing with idiots. TTFN.

And even they are wrong. Because even that has been debunked several times over.