Witnesses yell 'he can't hear you' as cop shoots deaf man

[Bathory]

Even if you had body cams on all the officers, you have the usual suspects that would say that the footage was doctored to exonerate the officer and they'd still try and crucify him.

Let them. That's not how evidence works.

[Lahis]

I hope you joking and aren't really that ignorant.

Well that's what the US people tell me.

[Tijuana]

I don't quite think they should be championed not that I think the other one should be vilified. I think it's good to look at cases like this and use them as examples where more training is needed instead of trying to jump on the cop.

Wait, you don't want to execute cops on the street, every time they make a mistake, or often just a perceived mistake? That's madness!

[Orange Joe]

Well that's what the US people tell me.

<- US person. Not all of us are that ignorant lol.

[Tijuana]

Just waiting for the alt-righters to come into this thread and tell us how their beloved violent cops are right to murder innocent citizens who don't obey their every command.

And that said innocent citizens should just roll over and die should they not have psychic powers to read the minds of said violent cops if they are deaf or developmentally disabled.

Do you see the alt-right in every issue, and even your breakfast toast? Why is being pro reason somehow a racist thing, in your mind?

In the steel trap that is your mind, this deaf man needed psychic powers to not know that he should not charge a cop with a weapon in his hand, while the cop has his gun drawn? Was he blind also? I didn't read that in the story.

A lot of these cops who fucked up have gotten off. And the public NEEDS to be outraged over that, and demand justice. But applying that same outcome to every situation, before court cases even happen, is just retarded. Literally rioting before the outcome is known, is about the dumbest fucking thing a human could possibly do. When bad cops get off, THAT is the time to riot and raise a ruckus. If you wait until then, you will see dramatically increased public support. Assumptions that every police use of a fire arm, is somehow wrong or racist, is the mark of an idiot.

[cubby]

Just waiting for the alt-righters to come into this thread and tell us how their beloved violent cops are right to murder innocent citizens who don't obey their every command.

And that said innocent citizens should just roll over and die should they not have psychic powers to read the minds of said violent cops if they are deaf or developmentally disabled.

It's adorable that you can just lash out before thinking any of this through. The disability issue will be a major contention, but if you see an officer pointing a gun at you, I would suggest not walking toward them with a weapon. What say?

Could have stopped.
Could have turned around and ran.
Could have done almost literally anything but approach an officer pointing a gun at him while holding a weapon.

How about after you have a good cry you stop and think about the facts instead of just assuming all cops are murders.

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Do you see the alt-right in every issue, and even your breakfast toast? Why is being pro reason somehow a racist thing, in your mind?

In the steel trap that is your mind, this deaf man needed psychic powers to not know that he should not charge a cop with a weapon in his hand, while the cop has his gun drawn? Was he blind also? I didn't read that in the story.

We rarely agree on political issues, but I think we've found some common ground in another.

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I don't quite think they should be championed not that I think the other one should be vilified. I think it's good to look at cases like this and use them as examples where more training is needed instead of trying to jump on the cop.

This - precisely.

People are generally very ignorant about what officers face and how they are trained to deal with it. Someone walking towards an armed officer with a weapon isn't even a difficult call to make. A body cam would have just made this more clear.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Wait, you don't want to execute cops on the street, every time they make a mistake, or often just a perceived mistake? That's madness!

In cases like this I don't think this guy should ever be a cop again but I don't think he should go to jail over all I think American police need far more training when it comes to dealing with the mentilly ill/disabled.

[urasim]

We rarely agree on political issues, but I think we've found some common ground in another.

Not necessarily a political issue this time around. So it's fairly common to see people who you disagree with on the forums siding with you on this. It's a common sense issue that some people will stop at nothing to make political. I mean... Really... You probably shouldn't approach someone that has a gun pointing at you. Isn't that common sense?

[Heladys]

Do you think the guy who shot in this case is a bad/corrupt cop? I'd think he was under trained not that he was going out to kill.

I think that a cop who's undertrained is very potentially a bad cop, perhaps even needs to be considered one by default. Common-sense de-escalation and use of least-force principles shouldn't have to be drilled into people though, so there's a balance of responsibility. First off yes the police forces have to train for the outcomes they prefer. But second, the cops have to stop losing their humanity soon as they put on the badge. They need to operate by default as if everyone they encounter could've been their parent or their sibling or their child.

If you have to shoot someone to save a life, I'm not gonna oppose that, but so many of these cases get there without any of the necessary intervening steps, due to lack of training, due to unreasonable fear, or due to bias. It's an intolerable situation. We shouldn't jump directly to demonizing individual cops of course, but it's real tempting to demonize the lot of them since they collectively keep failing to make changes.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

It's adorable that you can just lash out before thinking any of this through. The disability issue will be a major contention, but if you see an officer pointing a gun at you, I would suggest not walking toward them with a weapon. What say?

Could have stopped.
Could have turned around and ran.
Could have done almost literally anything but approach an officer pointing a gun at him while holding a weapon.

How about after you have a good cry you stop and think about the facts instead of just assuming all cops are murders.

- - - Updated - - -



We rarely agree on political issues, but I think we've found some common ground in another.

- - - Updated - - -



This - precisely.

People are generally very ignorant about what officers face and how they are trained to deal with it. Someone walking towards an armed officer with a weapon isn't even a difficult call to make. A body cam would have just made this more clear.

I wouldn't say it isn't a difficult call to make I personally know a cop who put him self at risk to talk down a homeless man with a knife in an alley so he didn't have to shoot him. This is the kind of thing I'd prefer every cop to be willing to try but I understand that's an unreasoned expectation and that Canadian police are trained to deal with the mentilly ill differently then American.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I think that a cop who's undertrained is very potentially a bad cop, perhaps even needs to be considered one by default. Common-sense de-escalation and use of least-force principles shouldn't have to be drilled into people though, so there's a balance of responsibility. First off yes the police forces have to train for the outcomes they prefer. But second, the cops have to stop losing their humanity soon as they put on the badge. They need to operate by default as if everyone they encounter could've been their parent or their sibling or their child.

If you have to shoot someone to save a life, I'm not gonna oppose that, but so many of these cases get there without any of the necessary intervening steps, due to lack of training, due to unreasonable fear, or due to bias. It's an intolerable situation. We shouldn't jump directly to demonizing individual cops of course, but it's real tempting to demonize the lot of them since they collectively keep failing to make changes.

I can't say I comptly agree with you but I do get where your coming from.

[Tijuana]

In cases like this I don't think this guy should ever be a cop again but I don't think he should go to jail over all I think American police need far more training when it comes to dealing with the mentilly ill/disabled.

Eh, I get you kind of. But, I also think the cops are not fucking up as much as we are made to think they are. A lot of these cases are pretty clearly instances without any wrong doing at all. Edited clips, and short clips, that only show the use of force, while deleting the context, lead to a lot of public outrage that is unfounded. On the other hand, bad cops who clearly did bad shit need to be fired, or when appropriate, charged with crimes. Them getting off when they shouldn't, is not ok.

I also agree that a lot of the time the cop just made a mistake, without any malice. I would even argue that the majority of inappropriate discharges of police fire arms, are mistakes, not malice for the target.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Eh, I get you kind of. But, I also think the cops are not fucking up as much as we are made to think they are. A lot of these cases are pretty clearly instances without any wrong doing at all. Edited clips, and short clips, that only show the use of force, while deleting the context, lead to a lot of public outrage that is unfounded. On the other hand, bad cops who clearly did bad shit need to be fired, or when appropriate, charged with crimes. Them getting off when they shouldn't, is not ok.

I also agree that a lot of the time the cop just made a mistake, without any malice. I would even argue that the majority of inappropriate discharges of police fire arms, are mistakes, not malice for the target.

In cases of malice I think the book should be thrown at them in case panic/under trained I think they shouldn't be a cop. Not even for the reason that I think they will always be some one who panics or that they can't get more training but because it's unlike the commity will ever trust them again or treat them fairly in future exchanges.

[Heladys]

I also agree that a lot of the time the cop just made a mistake, without any malice. I would even argue that the majority of inappropriate discharges of police fire arms, are mistakes, not malice for the target.

I don't think we can give them a pass for simple mistakes in use-of-force doctrine. Great power=Great responsibility and all that. We have to demand a *far* higher standard of decision-making and reflex-control from people that we are arming and empowering in this manner.

Some guy in the cuban missile crisis gets touchy and fires off a nuke at the wrong time, are we gonna dust the fallout off later and shrug it off and say "well, you know, it was stressful and he made a mistake but he didn't mean anything malicious to the target"?

[sionus]

So yet ANOTHER officer involved shooting where they kill someone with no criminal background, who posed no immediate threat to them, and wasn't even a suspect in anything. Instead of tazering him, they opened fire and killed him. All because he couldn't hear them even though people were screaming at the officers that the man was deaf...

How about using some critical thinking skills instead of being blindly prejudiced against police? It doesn't matter if you're deaf or not, when a police officer is clearly yelling at you and pointing a firearm at you, the last thing you should be doing is continuing to walk towards them holding anything in your hand.

[Tijuana]

I don't think we can give them a pass for simple mistakes in use-of-force doctrine. Great power=Great responsibility and all that. We have to demand a *far* higher standard of decision-making and reflex-control from people that we are arming and empowering in this manner.

Some guy in the cuban missile crisis gets touchy and fires off a nuke at the wrong time, are we gonna dust the fallout off later and shrug it off and say "well, you know, it was stressful and he made a mistake but he didn't mean anything malicious to the target"?

I never said we should give them a pass. What are you on about? I have repeatedly said when they make mistakes appropriate actions should be taken. Where we likely disagree, is that public lynching and rioting is an appropriate action, for a misuse of force. This isn't Vietnam, Smoky. This is bowling. There are rules.

[nacixems]

Non-lethal take-downs don't always work so its better to start out with a lethal one. Not sure I follow that logic.

the one that used a gun, stopped the threat. geshh logic is easy.

[Tijuana]

In cases of malice I think the book should be thrown at them in case panic/under trained I think they shouldn't be a cop. Not even for the reason that I think they will always be some one who panics or that they can't get more training but because it's unlike the commity will ever trust them again or treat them fairly in future exchanges.

I generally agree. But, we seem to be in the minority. BLM and other Democrat hate groups, want these cops to be executed, or worse, even when they acted lawfully. They are not just against individual cops who make mistakes, they want to challenge entire existence of cops.

[cuafpr]

That's really not how mentill disability works.

depends on the disability and extent of it....

[Heladys]

I never said we should give them a pass. What are you on about? I have repeatedly said when they make mistakes appropriate actions should be taken. Where we likely disagree, is that public lynching and rioting is an appropriate action, for a misuse of force. This isn't Vietnam, Smoky. This is bowling. There are rules.

I don't think lynching them in the street is the right answer either, chuckles. But I am reading a basic dismissal in your phrasing. If that's not what you intended, cool I'll take your word for it.