The EU Suppressed a 300-Page Study That Found Piracy Doesn’t Harm Sales

[omfgreally]

All this after the fact that the EU was the head at passing anti-piracy acts and the passing and enforcing of SOPA and PIPA.

Is there anything the EU will not pass and promote that doesn't turn back around and bite them on the ass? oh wait, nothing. carry on, morons.

BTW I do not promote Piracy aka bootlegging by any means. True "Piracy" is the taking by force and reselling of it.

What most people confuse piracy of is just sampling or getting it for free. This must have a new name.

[Deleted]

It's interesting that people suddenly object to language that is perfectly normal in other cases.

The objection is on the argumentation through comparison with shoplifting, not on the casual usage of the word "theft".
Figurative speech is ok so long is is kept figurative; once someone proposes that it literally stands for the figurative use, semantics hijack the conversation. It's unfortunate, but the blame is clearly on the idiots who think figurative speech is literal, not on those who correct them.

Whatever the case, the thread is about sales, and the supposed suppression of a study. Not the morality or semantics of copyright infringement. The insistence to derail the conversation into what constitutes theft, or how "perfectly normal" the figurative use is, is pathetic and a clear sign of argumentative poverty.

[Mormolyce]

Compare thread title:

The EU Suppressed a 300-Page Study That Found Piracy Doesn’t Harm Sales

To content of articles:

possibly because it determined that there is no evidence that piracy is a major problem.

Why did the Commission, after having spent a significant amount of money on it, choose not to publish this study for almost two years?

[Lollis]

It's interesting that people suddenly object to language that is perfectly normal in other cases.

"One person conspicuously absent in thousands of stolen campaign emails is the Democratic nominee"
https://www.wsj.com/articles/missing...elf-1476662725

"Vladimir Putin earlier praised Cold War-era scientists for stealing U.S. nuclear secrets to prevent them from being the world's sole atomic power" http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...r-secrets.html

"KGB that successfully stole the U.S. shuttle design "
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/18686090/n.../#.WceS5bpuKUk

And similarly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_theft

All of these cases are IP theft where something was stolen without depriving the original owner of the data. No-one (or very few) found the term "stolen" odd in those cases.

Information. Product.

Piracy, as this thread is concerned, deals with products not information. Your point is completely invalid.

[Deleted]

Compare thread title:
To content of articles:

I too think the language is too loaded. So, not to rebut, but for clarity:
Gizmodo: The European Digital Rights organization suggested in a blog post that the full contents of this report was intentionally suppressed
The blog post: https://edri.org/did-the-eu-commission-hide-a-study/
It doesn't mention "suppression" explicitly; it simply goes into how this seems to be. Gizmodo claims that it suggests so much, and put a baity title on it, which I transcribed word for word.

[Forogil]

The insistence to derail the conversation into what constitutes theft, or how "perfectly normal" the figurative use is, is pathetic and a clear sign of argumentative poverty.

True - the insistence that it cannot be theft and calling the use "figurative" is pathetic and a clear sign of argumentative poverty.

[Deleted]

True - the insistence that it cannot be theft and calling the use "figurative" is pathetic and a clear sign of argumentative poverty.

NO U
/yawn

[pateuvasiliu]

I mean pirates don't buy games or music. If they don't have the ability to pirate it they'll just skip over it entirely. Makes sense imo

Not true, a lot of people can afford and would buy things but if they can get them free they will.

Just look at TV shows. If there was no way to pirate Game of Thrones HBO would have a LOT more sales because it's a global phenomenon and if you don't watch it you'll probably end up not being able to join conversations about it.

Now don't get me wrong I do pirate... a lot. I only buy really good games and never buy TV shows. And I definitely wouldn't have bought 90% of the things I watched/played, but I still cost SOME people money by not buying their shit. It's just not as much as some would think.

[Machismo]

There's a lot of people on here trying to justify and rationalize why they are being shitty human beings.

[Forogil]

Piracy, as this thread is concerned, deals with products not information. Your point is completely invalid.

I am unsure about what your point is.
Do you mean that a movie is information - and a space shuttle is a product, or is the point the other way round?

Specifically are you saying that it is correct to say that someone stole Game of Thrones scripts, https://www.ndtv.com/entertainment/g...cripts-1734983 - but one cannot say that about a full movie http://www.nydailynews.com/entertain...icle-1.3168745 (the latter theft is denied)?

Obviously you can claim that it is only theft in some scenarios - e.g. when someone directly takes it from an unwilling target, and not when it is illegally copied by someone else, and the one watching the pirated contents doesn't care about those details (except in how it influences the quality - unfinished special effects, audience sneezing, sub-titles in Spanish). However, that wasn't the case made previously.

[Tijuana]

Again, fine by me. Not sure you got especially many left to debate with at all in that case, but then again perhaps that is for the best.

Meh, the law will still handle it, regardless of what these snowflakes think. No government body will be repealing piracy laws because a few kids disagreed with the laws. /shrug

[Mistame]

You are trying to define theft as taking something, completely ignoring the definition of take which is defined as removal from a source.

No, it's not.

The act of stealing is to take without permission.

If you come into possession of something that belongs to someone else of your own volition without permission, you're stealing. Period.

Taking is the removal of something.

That's one usage. Unless you want to argue that we should all be dead since nurses take our blood pressure and temperature. There is no requirement for "take" to include the removal of something. As I've stated repeatedly, take merely means "come into possession of one's own volition".

Thus, as piracy does NOT remove something, it is not theft.

Acquiring something that belongs to someone else of your own volition without permission is theft. Period. In regards to digital content, it doesn't matter if it's a copy. If you create a copy, that copy has the exact same creator/owner as the original. In fact, it's effectively the original sans the file name and time stamp. And since you obtained said copy of your own volition without permission, you're stealing.

The problem is you are trying to make the point that "theft", "stealing", etc, only occurs when there's a removal of property from the owner by someone else without permission. This is not always true. If you obtain someone else's property without permission, it's stealing. It doesn't require the removal of a physical object, only that you obtain it without permission.

[Deleted]

So enforce a one year copyright? To protect games and movies that are hits?
I can't believe Game of Thrones profits weren't hurt by having 80 million illegal downloads.

How are adds profit hurt of game of thrones when I - living in the eu - watch it one day later through torrents?

- - - Updated - - -

It's like saying shoplifting doesn't have any impact on a store.

because they dont. every shop has a budget for that in their calculation.
bad example btw shoplifting IS stealing torrenting a cd/tv show/book/comic isnt cause someone PAID for the content and then decided to share it.

- - - Updated - - -

With a dying comic industry?

Its not dying on the contrary with things like mixalogy its one of the industry that made the switch to e-publishing instead of sitting there like a child a screaming "no!" forever (aka Hollywood)

- - - Updated - - -

I would say majority of pirates are from Eastern Europe and another poor countries over the world and they would not buy the product anyway. If a new game costs 20 % of you monthly salary, you would not buy it. So there is no economic loss from this group for companies.

found the "only the poor do it"-argument-cliche....

[Karon]

I used to buy shit before I figured out how to pirate it.

I used to pirate shit before I had a job and therefore enough money to buy the games I want.
Nowadays I use pirating to demo a game that isn't on steam.

[Deleted]

Taking things without asking or paying, is stealing. Period.

That correct but thats not what piracy is SILLY.
Lets take for this example BIG Movie A that just started running in the cinemas:
One Dude buys tickets for himself and his girlfriend.
But they dont come alone they bring their camera and release it Cam of Movie A to the net.
So the DUDE PAYED for the movie so he aint stealing.

Weeks later another Dude buys the Bluray. rips it and releases it to the net.
Again no stealing involved.

- - - Updated - - -

Wonder why these "it's stealing!" -people aren't railing against YouTube 24/7 ... Google image search as well.

Not yet, but one day they will.

- - - Updated - - -

Lack of decent service (for movies and series) is the problem.

dont forget to add freaking GEOBLOCKING to this wall.

- - - Updated - - -

If you own it, you get to decide who uses it.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
So I own the cd I bought so I can share it with whomever I want okay cause its MY cd....

If you don't, you are a thief. Period.

just stop it please...

- - - Updated - - -

The real question from a moral system or society is does priracy make stealing ok.

As piracy AINT stealing this stupid question shouldnt come up once.

- - - Updated - - -

if you redistributed a copy of said purchased CD to your friends, you've committed copyright infringement

*DING!*
Wrong! In the GERMANY/Austria/Swizz and the EU such a thing is LEGAL!

[Fojos]

That's a fair point to consider. I've heard music on websites that I assume was pirated which led me ot buy the artist's full album based on hearing one song.

Still, if 25% of gamers decided that pirated games are okay, it's crazy to think that wouldn't impact the industry. It's like saying shoplifting doesn't have any impact on a store.

Except it's not the same at all. If you steal from a store they lose a physical copy. Now, if you had a 3D scanner and scanned the make-up of that item, that's the same.

So if 25% of gamers decided that pirated games are okay (might very well be far more), what they imagine is that they lose is a potential customer, and it's faulty logic. If there's no alternative option, reality is that the absolute majority will not buy it anyway.

[Deleted]

Theft/stealing only requires that you obtain the property of someone else without their permission. It does not require that they no longer have a copy or original of that property.

DAH, yes it DOES that how its written down in the LAWS!
"In criminal law, theft is the illegal taking of another person's property without that person's freely-given consent."

Content is "actual property". If I create a video, I own the video and everything about it. It is my property.

WRONG AGAIN! dude seriously just stop it.

Nothing in the definition of "theft" or "stealing" requires deprivation of property.

Yes, it does otherwise it wouldnt be called STEALING
btw just for YOU: Property = a thing or things belonging to someone; possessions collectively.
an IDEA on which your CD/Book/Video is based on is NOT property....

[Mistame]

One Dude buys tickets for himself and his girlfriend.
But they dont come alone they bring their camera and release it Cam of Movie A to the net.
So the DUDE PAYED for the movie so he aint stealing.

He didn't "pay for the movie". He paid a fee for the privilege of using a theater to watch a movie they were presenting. And considering that theaters have rules against using cell phones to record movies, aside from the fact that the movies themselves have licenses against it, it is stealing.

Weeks later another Dude buys the Bluray. rips it and releases it to the net.
Again no stealing involved.

He owns the physical disc and a license to one instance of data contained with in (or more if the license allows). Any copies he makes without permission are not his and he's stealing. Period.

*DING!*
Wrong! In the GERMANY/Austria/Swizz and the EU such a thing is LEGAL!

Many countries have laws that allow for backups, etc, to be created. But distributing copies, especially for profit, is still stealing.

DAH, yes it DOES that how its written down in the LAWS!
"In criminal law, theft is the illegal taking of another person's property without that person's freely-given consent."

Are you even capable of reading what you put in quotes? "...the illegal taking (obtaining possession of) another person's property..."

btw just for YOU: Property = a thing or things belonging to someone; possessions collectively.
an IDEA on which your CD/Book/Video is based on is NOT property....

"Property" is anything to belongs to a person or persons. It does not have to be physical. Anything I create, I own. It belongs to me. It's my property. The content of game or movie is not an "idea", it's digital property.

The amount of intellectual dishonesty people have to employ to justify their scumbaggery is astounding.

[Deleted]

The law is irrelevant in this context.

Sorry SILLY are you really trying to discuss piracy aqnd than you claim it has nothing to do with the LAW???

- - - Updated - - -

you cannot give it away, so by giving that disk away, lending it, making copies, you are committing a theft, because you stole the license to the content for the new media owner(s).

and thats wrong lil'sheep. thats not how the law works, go educate yourself instead of beeing a blind follower.

[Auxora]

It's always tough to measure the effect of piracy on sales, since X number of copies of a movie/album/game downloaded does not mean X number of lost sales. People download all kinds of content that they would never buy even if there were some magical content protection that made piracy impossible. So the real number is some smaller segment of X that would actually purchase some of the content they pirate, but it's difficult to say what % that would actually be. I don't think it's very high though, if I had to guess I'd think it's probably less than 10% of the number pirated.