So how much has attendance collapsed?

[Kazuchika]

Considering there are only 3.7 million subscribers left, finding replacements are getting harder and harder.

I would love to know how you came upon this number considering they stopped announcing subscribers years ago.

[Seditian]

We had same rank in NH and unless you wanna argue that over 400 guilds just collapsed over a single tier, I think we just got gud.

Or your raid leader got good. Or you recruited good people from guilds that collapsed. Both are more believable than 20 people suddenly becoming much better at the game and surpassing 400 guilds in 3 months.

[Risale]

I would love to know how you came upon this number considering they stopped announcing subscribers years ago.

WOuld love to know that also as I know of at least 7-8 people in my guild alone including myself that are not subbed due to paying the AH for tokens and have done so for months, hell i am still sitting on 7 million that is what another 28 months of game time.

[xcess]

10 man would help, way easier finding 10 than 20. Know a few guilds with 15-19 reliable ppl but just need a few more

[Echocho]

I would love to know how you came upon this number considering they stopped announcing subscribers years ago.

The numbers are still available internally.

[Kazuchika]

The numbers are still available internally.

Oh so you're a "trust me my dad works for Nintendo" twit.

Good to know.

[SupBrah]

if they bring back 10-man I think alot of people will resub. I dont even care if the content is harder, easier or shit loots. Just give me 10 man.

10-man is pushing it I think

Now 15-Man could be something that saves guilds. It allows enough players to ensure balance and cuts the roster requirement by 25%.

My guild has, more or less, become stagnant because it's such a pain to get 20 competent players together. Now moreso than ever. We seem to always have 15, but trying to pug those extra 5 or 6 slots with competent players is harder than Mythic Mistress was...

[Echocho]

Oh so you're a "trust me my dad works for Nintendo" twit.

Good to know.

Not at all, and the important thing is that those 3.7 million are still generating more profit than WOD did on average at higher numbers so the company is more than fine. The WoW token especially have made a huge impact.

[Ehrenpanzer]

ye i remember that method archimonde world first with 20 legendary rings....oh wait they had zero.

Yeah, its not like tuning content around the top 20 or so people in the world is a bad business plan right? As for the AP thing, sure it showers you in AP now and concordance is easy to reach, they have simply added another wheel in the netherlight crucible where you need "X" level of ap to gain the next little bonus

[Floopa]

quitting the game cus guild disbanded

how are you meant to go to another guild when the guild you've been in for years, and the people you've raided with for years, collapses?

[clevin]

10-man is pushing it I think

Now 15-Man could be something that saves guilds. It allows enough players to ensure balance and cuts the roster requirement by 25%.

My guild has, more or less, become stagnant because it's such a pain to get 20 competent players together. Now moreso than ever. We seem to always have 15, but trying to pug those extra 5 or 6 slots with competent players is harder than Mythic Mistress was...

They never should have picked 20. It was arrogant and shortsighted. Consider...

1) when we had 10 and 25 they continually had to prop up 25 (more loot/person odds, etc) since it was far less popular than 10 man.
2) If you raided 25s you probably had 27-30 people on roster. You could easily have split that into two 10 man raids, had 6-8 left over and it would be relatively easy to either have those folks on the bench or recruit 2-4 more depending on attendance percentage.
3) 15 still allows them to assume one of every class which was a reason to go larger than 10 in the first place.
4) 15 would have asked 10 man guilds to add a few new people, not double their raid.

So... they picked a size closer to the less popular size, they made 10 man guilds double their rosters and... why? There's no advantage to 20 over 15 aside from a very subjective "20 feels more epic!!!" which is a poor reason to make the call.

[Softbottom]

This only applies if you make your own group and the group doesn't see and announce your ilevel to the raid, you need a guild or friends to get to the ilevel pugs allow, so you're either bullshitting or lucked out.

He is not bullshitting at all. I got my priest from fresh 110 to 922 ilvl in two raid clears (lfr/normal/heroic) + WQ's and a few M+. So roughly 8 days from hitting max level and this was all done outside of guild.

[Radaney]

quitting the game cus guild disbanded

how are you meant to go to another guild when the guild you've been in for years, and the people you've raided with for years, collapses?

Play without any socialisation at all and have a generally miserably experience, like I did after my Vanilla to Cata guild collapsed.

[Siglius]

Or your raid leader got good. Or you recruited good people from guilds that collapsed. Both are more believable than 20 people suddenly becoming much better at the game and surpassing 400 guilds in 3 months.

I mean obviously it's not the same twenty people. Half our roster changed between HFC and Legion launch.

[Radaney]

You can just look for a new guild.

Compare it w/ a girlfriend which left you. You can deal with it or you can be emo about it.

I have found a new guild(s), it's just incredibly more boring than my previous one.

[Seditian]

I mean obviously it's not the same twenty people. Half our roster changed between HFC and Legion launch.

You said you had the same rank in NH.

E: Not to take anything away from you, that's still impressive.

[Keltas]

Obviously Legion Legendaries are more grindy, but if you tried to catch up w/ the legendary ring in WoD you had to do all Mythic Dungeons + all LFR's for max amount of valor points.

Dont forget to take off your rose tainted glasses.

Which is still like a quarter the amount you have to do now, and again, was guaranteed upgrades over time. You didn't spend 40 hours a week grinding absolutely everything hoping you didn't get another pile of useless bank filler crap.

[Dizzeeyooo]

guaranteed upgrades over time

the good old days when this concept still existed in wow, before "player engagement" through endless rng on top of rng on top of rng took over as the number 1 developer priority

[Hahyestwo]

the good old days when this concept still existed in wow, before "player engagement" through endless rng on top of rng on top of rng took over as the number 1 developer priority

I agree that an RNG slot machine sucks (for an MMO), but I don't think it was a dev idea. I think it was a company strategy forced down from corporate. Pretty solid business model from their perspective -- make people repeat the same garbage endlessly while "forcing" them to keep doing it. I would like to believe that the devs still know what an RPG is.

[Mlz]

I agree that an RNG slot machine sucks (for an MMO), but I don't think it was a dev idea. I think it was a company strategy forced down from corporate. Pretty solid business model from their perspective -- make people repeat the same garbage endlessly while "forcing" them to keep doing it. I would like to believe that the devs still know what an RPG is.

The only question is - how long can people be bothered to grind stuff like that? I mean, literally my whole bnet plays Diablo when the new expansion comes out and 2-3 weeks later they all quit again. I personally have lost the feeling of progression in WoW and it's utterly boring. Just got a 955 item with a socket on one of my alts that I barely play - character progression has never before been so disconnected from the effort that has been put in by the same player.