Why indeed are we calling ''just anti-migration'' groups Nazis ?

[Freighter]

No, what I'm surprised about is how you would try to defend something you don't even know exists, on top of being unfamiliar with our political groups. Wouldn't you have been better off asking for more info instead of going right into defending something you know nothing about?

I didn't defend anything though. I said only stupid people would be unable to discern the difference between anti-immigrant and a nazi. If you can't tell the difference between someone who wants restrictions on immigration and a nazi, then yes indeed people have the right to call you stupid.

[Daneman]

Ok, Let me try this question. Which group are people calling Nazis that don't have white supremacy/Nazi ties?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danish_People%27s_Party
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progress_Party_(Norway)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finns_Party

Just from my country and those I'm familiar with.

[Mihalik]

Only stupid people call anti-immigration people nazi.

Being anti-immigration, legal or illegal, doesn't make someone inherently a Nazi or Fascist or anything of the sort.

The problem is that there is an ever increasing overlap between the groups who are anti-immigration and those who are anti-immigrant. The difference is subtle, but significant.

The root question is -Why are you against immigration?

You can have reasonable answers like economic concerns (rising real estate prices, a more competitive job market, drop in wages- you can debate these, but they are reasonable concerns), but then you can have an altogether different answer, which still often rooted in similar concerns ends up manifesting itself differently. "They took are jerbs", "Jews are running the economy and replacing us", "Muslims and something something about Sharia law (I just hate what I don't understand)", "Asians are overrunning our universities", "They (they are usually brown) took our women!" etc.

Extremist ideologies like Naziis or Fascism are excellent at tapping into legitimate concerns and fears and then re-frame things to fit their toxic, violent and oppressive ideologies.

We have seen it before. Weimar Germany, Fascist Italy, Fascist Hungary etc. It has all been done before.

So, the point is, being anti-immigration doesn't inherently make you a Nazi, but the issue is a vehicle for Nazis to enter the mainstream, and to offer..."radical and efficient" solutions to complex problems. While their "solutions" rarely start (publicly) THAT EXTREME, it invariably leads to extremes once the veneer of respectability is no longer required.

[Jinpachi]

I never suggested such - anti-immigration isn't anti-illegal immigration

Too many aren't drawing that distinction. Thank you for clarifying, mate. I didn't read back far enough and didn't have the time to do so to see where you stood on that matter. Sorry

- - - Updated - - -

im against legal immigration from certain areas of the world. there is absolutely no reason to take immigrants from countries that openly and blatantly support terrorism. Philippines was in danger of being put on this list for their problems with abu sayif and other islamic terrorist cells. thing is Philippines actively engages and destroys these terrorist when they can. you have many countries that either dont have the ability or dont give a fuck. those countries we should not accept legal immigration from and if my homeland has a good reason to be put on that list, so be it. if i had to grow up there cause of it, so be it.

I don't disagree with that. Countries need to start seriously sweeping their own fucking doorstep if they don't like the broom that the U.S. is using.

[patuxz]

The root question is -Why are you against immigration?

You can have reasonable answers like economic concerns

Starts with this #1:

(supposedly) Ends up with this #2:


Until #1 (the economy) is solved, extreme views like #2 starts to gain more "attraction". The more delay, the worse.

I think a lot of European countries have very reckless fiscal policies.
It's not even an international UN issue, where refugees would be settled evenly across the world. Europe is expected to take the bill for this.
America is overseas, so less refugees get there.
It starts with the economy and frustration grows over time.
But in the end, follow all the recent wars, 9/11, war on terror etc. and that's the root cause for the migration. Or we could have had countries truly enforcing their borders.

It's hard to see this migration issue being solved without a major recession or something. European central bank just keeps printing.
We could also see the end of ISIS and refugees could return home. That's what I am hoping for. In the end, it's not a pleasant life to live in a foreign country totally dependent on the (foreign) government.

[finskee]

All of this amazes me. And I'm not talking about how you guys argue about nothing (although it is impressive). Here is why:

After checking through this thread i still couldn't decide are these storm guys nazis or what? And why is this happening in canada of all places... i mean its not like they ever worry about americans sneaking into canada like americans worry about mexicans sneaking into america. It's just not even the same. If they built a wall americans would just laugh and say ...ok? So what is going on here right?

So i google up this http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/far-...nada-1.4315053

If you read that article what you have to see is that the storm alliance is causing all this trouble, and so are the antifa people too don't get me wrong im not going to side with anyone here. I'm going to take the extremely simple viewpoint that THEY ALL need to go fuck off and find something positive to do cause I SERIOUSLY DOUBT ANY IMMIGRANTS ARE CAUSING THIS MUCH OF A PROBLEM FOR ANY CANADIAN ANYWHERE. Look at all the cops there in full riot gear so now the fucking taxpayers are PAYING FOR THAT SHIT... the tax payers don't deserve that. Stop this stupid fighting over shit and go to the beach or something. Goddamn idiots everywhere fighting about shit that could easily be worked out between civil rational people, and in fact most civil rational people have never once gone to a political protest and started a fight. Why are any of you defending any of that crazy shit? Why are you even talking about if it is politically correct to call them nazis? Don't answer that question btw it is rhetorical.

[PosPosPos]

*Dresses up like Nazis, says and does Nazi things*

"Nope totally not Nazis" - Alt-Right 2017

[Exeris]

Its funny because socialists used to be anti-immigration en masse back in the 80s and 90s. In my country it was actually the socialist party that came up with the harshest immigration laws.

Our biggest socialist party still has some of the harshest immigration laws, mainly because of the crime some groups drag with them and the police struggle dealing with the amount.

[Deleted]

Who said they are obviously not nazis?

They said it. It's always them saying they are not nazis while Heil Hitlering around the streets in SS uniforms. That's the point of this thread. The fact that we can't call the obvious nazis nazis, because we will hurt their little feelings.

[msdos]

Freighter must be friends with the mods because everytime I go into an off-topic thread, he/she is there, derailing it, with inane comments that always devolve into arguments of semantics.

It's funny that people are trying so hard to be pedantic and literal, but no one mentions the actual meaning of the word NAZI. Nazi is literally short for 'national socialist'. Calling someone a national socialist for something is demonstrating the highest level of ignorance in my opinion.

[Mihalik]

It's funny that people are trying so hard to be pedantic and literal, but no one mentions the actual meaning of the word NAZI. Nazi is literally short for 'national socialist'. Calling someone a national socialist for something is demonstrating the highest level of ignorance in my opinion.

Nazi is a common term for racists and ethnocentrists, both ideas being core principles of National Socialism which in itself is a subset of Fascism which in turn is authoritarian nationalism. A commonality of both is an obsession with the perceived "correct" conservative ethnic, cultural, and even racial values.

When we refer to Nazis today we rarely if ever refer to the economic organizational principles (hybrid command economy, economic protectionism and crony capitalism) but rather refer to the social values expressed by them.

So if a dude wears Nazi iconography, rants about Jews and "other races" or rants and raves about the need to protect "white identity" etc you can confidently call that person a Nazi. Even if he insists he is "just a white nationalist" or some other misnomer variant.

In short... If you do this shit, you are Nazi. Congrats.

[Ravenblade]

It's funny that people are trying so hard to be pedantic and literal, but no one mentions the actual meaning of the word NAZI. Nazi is literally short for 'national socialist'. Calling someone a national socialist for something is demonstrating the highest level of ignorance in my opinion.

No, this is absolutely incorrect. There is a German name called Ignaz and Nazi was kind of a nickname for it in Bavarian and Austrian regions for centuries, and also as a word stood for a very brutish and intellectually incapacitated (read: very dumb) person. The word Nationalsocialist is even older dating back to 1887, Friedrich Naumann - the founder idol of the German Liberal Democrats founded the Nationalsozialer Verein around 1907 which again had nothing to do with fascism or völkisch ideas at all. So both words have no roots in the contexts of post-WWI nationalist and völkisch movements. In fact if people would stop looking at German history from a purely before-/after-WWII view they would have an easier time contextualizing both words. Far right people hijacked the term nationalsocialism for their own - actually non-social(ist) - purposes. Since a lot of these people were active in Bavaria the word slowly found a cumulative meaning. Kurt Tucholsky, for instance, used the word "Nazi" as a derogatory term for the fascists and radical völkisch militias roaming the German streets of the mid-1920s, also knowing its origins.

So basically it is literally not an abbreviation at all but a common regional derogatory word applied to a people who twisted an ideology into what it originally wasn't exposing and promoting values and an understanding of the world rooted in utterly bottomless stupidity and a way of thinking that embraces anti-establishment, militarism, authoritarinism, supremacism and social nihilism altogether, and of course the thudding sounds of boots on the ground: Every man a soldier, every fist a weapon. I believe the collective term is fascism.

[BadguyNotBadGuy]

No you didn't you provided actually no basis for your comments at all other than to infer what others may or may not be implying by mentioning anti immigrant groups. I am totally against illegal immigration.

I am not in any anti-immigration groups, because yes every single one where I live is closely tied to right, wing conservative alt-right neo nazi white supremacist. Every single one. It can be proven by simply going to any group that is well known and you will find more than a a couple specific and admitted associations to that effect.


The only argument to the contrary at this point are fiction, and take my word for it statements.

you literally confirmed everything @Freighter was saying, but in a more verbose manner, entirely skipping the point that you are both saying more or less the same thing... i think

----

and i just realised how long this thread is and that i likely said something that has already been discussed in its entirety... soz boys

[soulcrusher]

Isn't it getting a but tedious labelling anyone interested in white European identity a nazi? We don't say the same for black, Mexican, Indian or any other group.

[Deleted]

Isn't it getting a but tedious labelling anyone interested in white European identity a nazi? We don't say the same for black, Mexican, Indian or any other group.

We do if they go around in SS uniforms with Nazi flags burning books. Those are the 'white nationalists' we call nazis. The ones ho act like nazis.

[Deleted]

You're surprised I'm not intricately familiar with what political groups exist on the other side of the world? They probably exist with all likelihood but I wouldn't know the names of any.

This is your problem Freighter, you keep commenting in threads you have little knowledge on and get defensive when people call you out on it.

[Heladys]

There are plenty of kinds of assholes who are not nazis.

[Deleted]

No, this is absolutely incorrect. There is a German name called Ignaz and Nazi was kind of a nickname for it in Bavarian and Austrian regions for centuries, and also as a word stood for a very brutish and intellectually incapacitated (read: very dumb) person. The word Nationalsocialist is even older dating back to 1887, Friedrich Naumann - the founder idol of the German Liberal Democrats founded the Nationalsozialer Verein around 1907 which again had nothing to do with fascism or völkisch ideas at all. So both words have no roots in the contexts of post-WWI nationalist and völkisch movements. In fact if people would stop looking at German history from a purely before-/after-WWII view they would have an easier time contextualizing both words. Far right people hijacked the term nationalsocialism for their own - actually non-social(ist) - purposes. Since a lot of these people were active in Bavaria the word slowly found a cumulative meaning. Kurt Tucholsky, for instance, used the word "Nazi" as a derogatory term for the fascists and radical völkisch militias roaming the German streets of the mid-1920s, also knowing its origins.

So basically it is literally not an abbreviation at all but a common regional derogatory word applied to a people who twisted an ideology into what it originally wasn't exposing and promoting values and an understanding of the world rooted in utterly bottomless stupidity and a way of thinking that embraces anti-establishment, militarism, authoritarinism, supremacism and social nihilism altogether, and of course the thudding sounds of boots on the ground: Every man a soldier, every fist a weapon. I believe the collective term is fascism.

good old wikipedia helps to understand nazism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism

unfortunately the english wiki entry is not as detailed as the german entry.

A neo-nazi wants to bring all aspects of the old WWII nazism back.