Week 16 (ends 10-9-17): M-KJ 168, M-Gul'dan 600

[Deleted]

Oh boy the middle tier endboss being significantly harder than the one of the first tier... that has to be a first? Oh wait yogg+0, ragnaros, lei shen.

The truth is guldan was actually too easy for an enboss and that was only covered by the fact that it was a 15 minute fight with a new phase right at the end. Mechanically it honestly wasn't much harder than pre nerf/change star augur/elisande.

[Hellshout]

Still playing WoW after Ion comes out and sextuples down on the "RNG is good!" and "all this shit design is staying, I'm terrible at my job but it doesn't matter because my boss is permanently high on cocaine and too concerned with hiding his affairs from his wife to pay attention to how I'm killing this game"?

haHAA

Considering RNG is making players stay on more and more and more and more to get that TF or that next Concordance, I say it's a good design for them. It sucks for us, but it's a business.
They finally found that sweet spot like TV channels when they add sensational stories only to keep you there, except Blizz adds more layers of RNG.
I know it's a conspiracy theory, but I'm starting to think Blizz fucks your spec drop chances, as in BiS items have almost 0 chance of dropping and shit items are 101%, because since 7.3 I switched to feral, I have yet to get a drop of an item with Versa on it. Just Haste Mastery... ALL items with Haste Mastery. Ow and before when I was Balance, Haste Mastery was hard to find, tons of Crit though.
But most likely it's my shit luck.

[Ningjinq]

At least from glancing over abilities, Antorus won’t have the soaking abilities issue.

[Tradu]

Yeah, the crucible didn't really let you skip anything notable, it reduced fuck up chances, but its main thing was making 2nd dps adds smoother, and dark phase smoother. Which reduces wipes by a bit.

Gul'dan got hp nerfs didn't he? Which assisted in making that skip?

Might see some KJ hp nerfs, but again, we're so far off a notable skip.

Actually, maybe not, if you use lust in p2, with like a 5% hp nerf, you could probably skip 2nd dps adds. That could drop 100 or so wipes from a groups prog.

Idk, I'd like to see some nerfs to KJ, preferably after I kill it tomorrow/early next week :P but anytime is fine. Needs to happen.

I'd like to see KJ gutted, don't really care if it's before or after my guild kills it. It's just a shit boss and I'm sick of ToS progress. Having 2 hard bosses(especially directly next to each other) where a single mistake is very likely to wipe you is just frustrating, especially when both are fairly long fights as well.

[Emerald Archer]

I'd like to see KJ gutted, don't really care if it's before or after my guild kills it. It's just a shit boss and I'm sick of ToS progress. Having 2 hard bosses(especially directly next to each other) where a single mistake is very likely to wipe you is just frustrating, especially when both are fairly long fights as well.

Yeah, I won't be bothered much if it's before I kill it, the boss is not fun at all. I might kill it before reset, might not, if I do, awesome it'd be pre-nerf, if not, and there's a nerf next week, ah well, I had my chance and blew it.

[Deleted]

Yeah, I won't be bothered much if it's before I kill it, the boss is not fun at all. I might kill it before reset, might not, if I do, awesome it'd be pre-nerf, if not, and there's a nerf next week, ah well, I had my chance and blew it.

Well not sure if killing KJ now is considered pre-nerf. Since Method kill, he has already been gutted two times.
That's say a lot about the skill of Method's raiders.

[KaPe]

Well not sure if killing KJ now is considered pre-nerf. Since Method kill, he has already been gutted two times.
That's say a lot about the skill of Method's raiders.

Killing him now would still place them in Top 200. If anything, this says a lot about ToS and it's not a good thing. Two major nerfs, a patch introducing significant buff to players and it's still a shitty boss.

[Arcanines]

1702 guilds have killed Mythic Gul'dan on the date of the 21st Jun (opening of ToS).

Would 1700+ guilds kill Mythic Kil'Jaeden before mid-November ? (opening of Ant)

Not even, if you go to wowprogress, and go to tier 19, you can see it still allows you to rank in that bracket. It was not even CLOSE to that many when it came out.

[Emerald Archer]

Well not sure if killing KJ now is considered pre-nerf. Since Method kill, he has already been gutted two times.
That's say a lot about the skill of Method's raiders.

There's different nerf sections. Next nerf will likely make him faceroll, so it'd be nice to kill it before that nerf. It isn't pre-all nerfs, but it hasn't been made faceroll yet.

[Deleted]

Not even, if you go to wowprogress, and go to tier 19, you can see it still allows you to rank in that bracket. It was not even CLOSE to that many when it came out.

Yes it still allows us to rank.
Right now we are at 1813 kills...

But i'm talking about the date of 21st Jun, opening of ToS.
They were 1703 guilds.

[MrExcelion]

Will be interesting to see if there's another nerf in a couple of weeks, as were closing it on the final weeks of the tier. Would need to be soon. Even with another big nerf, it'll still be less kills than Guldan with Blizzcon coming up and guilds wanting to get a break before Antorus as its only been a 5 month tier. None of the loot really matters all that much (can just get titanforge from heroic kj since week 1), titles kind of lame, and no mount either.

If there's no extra nerf to KJ it'll likely be because they're counting on players finishing the crucible, which I just don't see happening. I think that's where the miscalculation on their part is Guilds that are working on KJ right now have plenty of players still at 66-68. We know how much easier it'll be with AK55 and they're going to wait it out a bit as the time spent just isnt valuable. AK should have been capped at some smaller figure like they did last time (and reduced the trait count accordingly). I've burned myself out on m+ and most just look to do a weekly

Just my personal opinion of course. It's very easy to burnout with this xpac, and I don't think the overall desire is there like with Helya, as the sights are on Antorus, and 5 month tiers have us already looking to what's next. Antorus should last 7-8 or so minimum probably if the extra seasons are any indication.

- - - Updated - - -

I am completely burned out. I'll sub again at some point and join a top 250 guild where the progression will be more slow and we get to kill the end bosses without ridiculous effort.

There's definitely some sweet spots in terms of ranking where the hotfix nerf/patch nerf timing coincides perfectly, with far less effort needed in exchange for killing it a few weeks later. Where that line is drawn can change tier to tier though and what matters is joining a guild with the right expectations. Top 250 does sound about right for what you and probably others in this thread might be looking for.

[SenpaiDean]

If my guild fails at getting the cutting edge achievement i'm quitting the game

[MrExcelion]

If my guild fails at getting the cutting edge achievement i'm quitting the game

A lot of raiders seemingly share that sentiment too tier to tier, CE or bust. The end result is only partially guild performance but also where Blizzard sets the goalposts for that tier, and KJs harder right now than Guldans final incarnations. All I can really say is find a guild of people you enjoy playing with so its not all about the end results, but everyones allowed to play the game for their own personal goals and reasons

[KaPe]

If there's no extra nerf to KJ it'll likely be because they're counting on players finishing the crucible, which I just don't see happening. I think that's where the miscalculation on their part is Guilds that are working on KJ right now have plenty of players still at 66-68. We know how much easier it'll be with AK55 and they're going to wait it out a bit as the time spent just isnt valuable. AK should have been capped at some smaller figure like they did last time (and reduced the trait count accordingly). I've burned myself out on m+ and most just look to do a weekly

If that's their line of thinking, they definitely overestimate the Crucible. Tier 3 traits will be a dps boost, sure, but they will not nerf the coordination needed for both the Avatar and KJ. You will still need the same number of soaks on both bosses. You will still be playing ping pong with singularities. Obelisks will still one shot you. Failed soaks will still one shot you. Maiden's shield will not explode in your face, but that's the least important part of the fight. Same with making fights a bit shorter - if you survived so many obelisks, getting one less set won't really make such a difference. And the rewards will still be terrible, absolutely not worth the effort.

The way those bosses are designed makes the Crucible less valuable. Gul'dan was perfect for that - every bit of extra DPS helped, allowing you to shift Bloodlust into more problematic parts of the fight to make them easier. Here... not really.

Plus, it really sucks both having to grind out your nerf and its' effect being randomized. At least with item upgrades, you focused on most impactful items first, quickly getting biggest rewards. With Crucible, your upgrades can be negligible, purely because of bad luck. The burnout is real.

[Gasparde]

That's assuming the majority of the 432 guilds left are still raiding, Tomb drained a lot of mythic souls with all its soak crap and need for classes that can do it. Normal mythic guilds just don't have that kind of roster.

Weak argument. We also had tons of wannabe mythic-guilds coming into NH after getting easy rankings in EN... only to be stuck at 3/10 for months. And after the initial wall was nerfed 7/10 became the next wall. Nighthold was just as much of a guild killer as ToS.

[Onikaroshi]

Weak argument. We also had tons of wannabe mythic-guilds coming into NH after getting easy rankings in EN... only to be stuck at 3/10 for months. And after the initial wall was nerfed 7/10 became the next wall. Nighthold was just as much of a guild killer as ToS.

We're talking guilds who killed the final boss, not "wannabe mythic-guilds" that only made 3/10 for months. Frankly, a lot of guilds died between the two, including WF guilds.

[Arcanines]

Weak argument. We also had tons of wannabe mythic-guilds coming into NH after getting easy rankings in EN... only to be stuck at 3/10 for months. And after the initial wall was nerfed 7/10 became the next wall. Nighthold was just as much of a guild killer as ToS.

I'd like to argue that ToS is worse, than NH, NH had a lot of free loot bosses, if you played enough. The first 3 where free, krosus where free if you had the traits, and lego's on the roster. Tich after the traits wasn't really hard, same goes for spellblade.

And Botanist wasn't that bad, as mechanics didnt 1 shot and could be outhealed if healers where able to.

Going to Tos from Mistress we have a punishing fight in her, but you can kill her if you really try to. and then comes maiden as a brick wall for the casuals, pure 1 shots, and avatar as the ice over the cake.

[TOM_RUS]

Blizzard must to apply ToS nerfs across the board ASAP. Heavy nerfs. Like -20% HP/damage and mechanics fixes on top of that. Raids have never been so overtuned like ToS is.

[KaPe]

I'd like to argue that ToS is worse, than NH, NH had a lot of free loot bosses, if you played enough. The first 3 where free, krosus where free if you had the traits, and lego's on the roster. Tich after the traits wasn't really hard, same goes for spellblade.

And Botanist wasn't that bad, as mechanics didnt 1 shot and could be outhealed if healers where able to.

Going to Tos from Mistress we have a punishing fight in her, but you can kill her if you really try to. and then comes maiden as a brick wall for the casuals, pure 1 shots, and avatar as the ice over the cake.

Botanist had a ton of leeway in the first two phases, and third was trivialized by Guardian Druid/ankh totems. It was just getting past two other mind numbing phases that was the problem.

Really nasty stuff didn't start until Augur and superior dps helped a lot with nastier parts of the fight. I don't know if they wanted to compensate for it or if it was just an accident, but Maiden takes the most punishing part of Augur, makes it occur every 8 seconds and removes everything else. Who thought this was a good idea, I don't know. It's the kind of boss that's "easy", but makes you hate your own raid team.

Avatar is a bad joke, with 18 out of 20 people needing to soak something for five minutes. Failing some of those soaks will kill you instantly, other will mean you won't have enough DPS for phase two. Worse, just like Maiden (and Mistress ... though static groups can work), it's a boss designed around a Weak Aura. They broke Augur's Conjuntions indicators and yet we now have even worse mechanics in place.

As much as I hated Brambles back on Cenarius, I'd take it anyday over needing to use Weak Aura for a boss. Instead of designing even more ridiculous mechanics, Blizzard should focus on obfuscating them from addons, so they can remain threatening, but not absurdly so.

[Deleted]

ToS is a shit show, get it over with asap.