Unholy Priorities ?

[Raiz]

So... I've been running a lot of dungeons lately, and I've been having some troubles with the priorities spells.

Let's assume those points for the sake of simplicity :
- You have 3211x11 talents.
- You don't have valkyr, apocalypse, army of the dead or ghouls abo spells (but ghoul is still there, hitting whatever add we have in focus).
- You're facing a boss.
- You have full runes, full RP and full wounds

Basically you're running with Outbreak, Festering Strike, Scourge Strike, and Death Coil.

Anyway, I wanted to know what are your usual first spells you cast when you're drowning in ressources. Because lately I've been having a lot of difficulties to spend them all. Like in this situation, if my valkyr was summoned, I'd make sure to spend all my RP spells (Death Coils AND Death Strike procs, no matter what). If not, I'd spend like 2 Festering Strike even though it feels like a waste, I just don't like having 6 runes idling. So 2 Festering Strike mean I'd have a rune recharging, and proceed with either SS or DCs. But still, it's not easy to spend all of my ressources.

I'm also wondering if the sims are accurate because it's saying Boots, Uvanimor and Draugr sims better than bracers (yes you read it right, aggramar sims higher than bracers even though I have multiples boots with roughly the same ilvl as their belt / ring counterparts).

I'd feel so much better if I could have at least used bracers because the 1-2 additionals wounds bursts would have helped my rotation's flow. But according to sims I'm losing at least 2% dps overall. It's kind of pissing me off.

Thoughts ?

[BadguyNotBadGuy]

So... I've been running a lot of dungeons lately, and I've been having some troubles with the priorities spells.

Let's assume those points for the sake of simplicity :
- You have 3211x11 talents.
- You don't have valkyr, apocalypse, army of the dead or ghouls abo spells (but ghoul is still there, hitting whatever add we have in focus).
- You're facing a boss.
- You have full runes, full RP and full wounds

Basically you're running with Outbreak, Festering Strike, Scourge Strike, and Death Coil.

Anyway, I wanted to know what are your usual first spells you cast when you're drowning in ressources. Because lately I've been having a lot of difficulties to spend them all. Like in this situation, if my valkyr was summoned, I'd make sure to spend all my RP spells (Death Coils AND Death Strike procs, no matter what). If not, I'd spend like 2 Festering Strike even though it feels like a waste, I just don't like having 6 runes idling. So 2 Festering Strike mean I'd have a rune recharging, and proceed with either SS or DCs. But still, it's not easy to spend all of my ressources.

I'm also wondering if the sims are accurate because it's saying Boots, Uvanimor and Draugr sims better than bracers (yes you read it right, aggramar sims higher than bracers even though I have multiples boots with roughly the same ilvl as their belt / ring counterparts).

I'd feel so much better if I could have at least used bracers because the 1-2 additionals wounds bursts would have helped my rotation's flow. But according to sims I'm losing at least 2% dps overall. It's kind of pissing me off.

Thoughts ?

I run with Taktretrttxitxixtxit and Aggramar cos i have no other UH leggos and i love being Sonic the Deathknight. I run a different build though with 3131131, which means my priorities will be a bit different.

In a situation when im full RP and full Runes, ill throw out an outbreak and a festering/two CSs (depending on the amount of wounds on target). Then dump two coils and keep going with my regular rotation. If i have full wounds on target then i fire off two CSs, outbreak, 1 coil, festering, 1 coil.

My reasoning behind this being that runes are our most important resource, but i want to keep several for wound popping as well as not wanting to badly overcap RP. Dropping two coils puts me in a comfortable place to not overcap RP in case i wanna mash CS a lot with SoW being proc'd, as well as give me two 45% chances of proccing Runic Corruption.
The latter scenario is similar, in that i try to minimise resource overcap (which in this case are wounds and RP), while also increasing the possible effect of Runic Corruption should it proc.

[Ashaeron]

I run 3211x11 build (usually with Spell Eater), and I've recently picked up a Fel-oiled trinket so I'm actually running into this situation more than I'd like to admit. What I've worked out so far:

Priority 1: Disease.
P2: Don't Overcap RP.
P3: 3 Runes on Recharge. - The reasoning for 2 and 3 in this order (as opposed to runes>RP) is that DC is such a massive fraction of my damage. With the buff it's a significant use of resources. I might roll a little overcap if I have about, say, 110 RP (with a 125 cap) and only 1 rune on cd, but generally no. YMMV.

P4: Float some wounds and some RP. I rarely have 0 or full anything. It's helped a lot with being prepped for DA cd's and not losing out on either Black Claws procs or suddenly being in that awkward spot with 1 rune and no wounds.

Re: Legendaries; the boots have 1k mastery extra, on top of their 'normal' 970 stats. 20%ish Movespeed is also just generally good. Bracers are a low value slot and 1-2 is a shitton worse than it was at the start of the expansion - you're basically converting Scourges into more Festers with a few extra wounds, instead of 'oh hey my 7 stack of wounds popped all at once'.

[Raiz]

Re: Legendaries; the boots have 1k mastery extra, on top of their 'normal' 970 stats. 20%ish Movespeed is also just generally good. Bracers are a low value slot and 1-2 is a shitton worse than it was at the start of the expansion - you're basically converting Scourges into more Festers with a few extra wounds, instead of 'oh hey my 7 stack of wounds popped all at once'.

Indeed. I mean, It's hard to realize bracers aren't better with our current logic; If I wear them then I'd be able to have less overcapping ressources because I'd be able to use more festering strike, and in turn more RP in a shorter time.

For example, let's assume you have unlimited runes. What would you want to do ? According to my logs, Festering Strikes are hitting harder than SS with wounds. The only thing I didn't really take into account is the unholy frenzy buff : Is it better to burst somes wounds than mindlessly spamming FS ? There's also this sudden doom procs, the abomination hitting, etc, which make a little harder to do our own math.

I know that's why we have our raidbots, but I feel like it's difficult to trust it. I just feel like there's something wrong with the sims. I hope I'm wrong.

[Deleted]

Are you taking into account the shadow portion of ss damage?

[Maxweii]

I know that's why we have our raidbots, but I feel like it's difficult to trust it. I just feel like there's something wrong with the sims. I hope I'm wrong.

Why and what don't you trust about raidbots/simcraft?

[Raiz]

Are you taking into account the shadow portion of ss damage?

Yes.

Why and what don't you trust about raidbots/simcraft?

It's not that I don't trust it. I just find it difficult to trust it. Meaning I'm wearing what the current raidbot is telling me to.

I just find it hard to trust it because from my experience, I'm always swimming in ressources and I'd really like to do something about it. Let's consider this scenario :
You have the same stats in the legendaries and their replacements. But only the extra bonus differs. In this case, if you're swimming in ressources, why would you think having an extra rune would help in the dps compared to bracers ? I'd rather bursts my wounds fasters in order to use more FS, and thus more RP yadda yadda, you get the gift.
But the sims is telling me that bracers sims lower than Uvanimor's ring and Draugr's belt.

Not sure if I'm making myself clear.

[Deleted]

Are you basically asking if simc utilises legendary gear realistically? Simc api experts needed for that, sorry

On a side note what fight length are you using?

[ymirsson]

Yes.

It's not that I don't trust it. I just find it difficult to trust it. Meaning I'm wearing what the current raidbot is telling me to.

I just find it hard to trust it because from my experience, I'm always swimming in ressources and I'd really like to do something about it. Let's consider this scenario :
You have the same stats in the legendaries and their replacements. But only the extra bonus differs. In this case, if you're swimming in ressources, why would you think having an extra rune would help in the dps compared to bracers ? I'd rather bursts my wounds fasters in order to use more FS, and thus more RP yadda yadda, you get the gift.
But the sims is telling me that bracers sims lower than Uvanimor's ring and Draugr's belt.

Not sure if I'm making myself clear.

It all depends whether you play exactly like the sim APL is written. If you deviate from that priority list, your play experience will be different.

[Maxweii]

That's Unholy in and of itself, nothing to do with anything else other than it's just a very resource packed spec. Making the best use of the resources you have is just the best way to do things.
This is after Blizzard slowed the spec down from what it was on Legion launch, so this is much less of an issue now than it used to be.

[Raiz]

Are you basically asking if simc utilises legendary gear realistically? Simc api experts needed for that, sorry

On a side note what fight length are you using?

I'm using a patchwerk style fight with 5k iterations, I have absolutely no idea how long this fight is.

It all depends whether you play exactly like the sim APL is written. If you deviate from that priority list, your play experience will be different.

I'd really like to know how to read that APL and their priorities. I started using raidbot only 2 or 3 months ago for another alt. Because I felt like I didn't need it for the dk since I already had a lot of experience with it. Now I'm not sure at all. It's perfectly possible, actually I'm fairly certain, I'm playing it wrong.

[ymirsson]

Its explained on the simcraft manual, IIRC.