Should a homeland for Europes Romani people be created?

[Deleted]

What an ignorant comment. If there are "vast amounts of money thrown" Balkans,excluding private investment, they are from EU and are targetet to the EU members like Romania, Bulgaria, Greece, which were not involved in any wars since the WW2, not to mention the money are for various purposes like infrastructure projects and stimulation of local small and medium businesses. Are you suggesting that we are the same kind of people, some time of illaterate warlike barbarions? That doesn't speak well for you edication and knowledge. The only conflicts were in the former Yugoslavia, and they were not stop by vast amounts of money.

Turn it around, western countries have stopped being involved in wars? They add new wars before they finish old ones. Also they are the ones that supported overthrow of yugoslavia.
They started 2 world wars n used nuclear weapons.

Imagine western countries in 1-3 decades, civil wars all over..

[Freighter]

I am not claiming that is what they are saying. I am merely claiming that, regardless of the ethnic makeup of Europe, people there will always find some reason to hate on some group or another, and not just in the sense of a generic distrust of outsiders, but in a genuinely hateful, violent, and destructive manner. Oh sure, Europeans will always find some rationalization and place all of the blame on the target of their scorn, but you just have to look at the history to see that these assertions are always bullshit.

Saying they'd have less crime if they didn't have arabs, africans, south asians or such isn't bullshit though from everything I've read about the situation. Seems very similar to the situation we have with uzbeks, sri lankans, kyrghistani, pakistani, mongols, russians and so on in South Korea.

[baskev]

Antiziganism, a term you've likely never heard, is the term for racism against the Romani. Romani are also more widely known as "Gypsy" by many and constitute a unique ethnic and linguistic group inhabiting Europe for centuries. They come from India originally, migrating sometime after the Islamic invasion of Northern India and dispersing across much of the world and exist in Europe today (Giving Europe its only Native Indo-Iranian language). While many know of the millions of Jews who perished in the Holocaust (Called Shoah in Hebrew) few recall the Roma who were the second target of the holocaust (Porajmos in one common Roma language; literally, the devouring). To this day the consensus is that Roma suffer widespread racism in European Union;



With the EU focused on their migrant issue, and concerns over integration being widespread, the status of the Roma (A people who tend to adopt local religious customs even) does not really inspire confidence that the EU can absorb different people in general. With that said, should a piece of Europe (Likely Moldova) be carved out specifically for Romani?

You forgot the fact that most people in the EU dislike them for a reason ( not saying it is a good or bad. Just or unjust thing). In most major city's beggars are organized roma. Prostitution and theft is also a "hobby" of them. If you have a more tinted beggar or street vendor in a major European city..its most likely a roma. And they can be very aggressive to outsiders.

And just giving someone a country means that a other country('s) need to give up land and you will get Isreal/palastine things with the people who lived in their new country before.
Being a small part Roma i do know the story's indeed of how they are seen/used in europa. And i see it as a problem to. But giving land is not a solution. They could just integrate into the country's....allot of other refugee groups do that. Or look for other options. But i also think they should do something about their image. I know all the good parts. But most people only see the underside of the culture. I have been to Romania to see where my great grandfather came from ( he was the full "gypsy" ) And they are a nice culture. But a poor one.

- - - Updated - - -

a country for palestinians and kurds would be good

My thoughts exactly...if you give them a country ( even if they deserve it or not) it will create problems.
And btw: Palestine's : In history wise Hebrews where there first. But they should work together to become 1 country.
And kurds: Kurds deserve their own country. They where eaten up by ottaman empire and then divided into modern country's not looking at their original status.

But roma are a bit different...the 2 you are talking about either lived their for a very long time or have a real saying/reason to be there. Roma are literally refugee's that spread across europa.

[Macaquerie]

Saying they'd have less crime if they didn't have arabs, africans, south asians or such isn't bullshit though from everything I've read about the situation. Seems very similar to the situation we have with uzbeks, sri lankans, kyrghistani, pakistani, mongols, russians and so on in South Korea.

Marginalized ethnic groups tend to resort to crime because they have fewer options to advance in legitimate society. This doesn't excuse their behavior but it'd be silly to believe that simply kicking out all the minorities would eliminate crime, since somebody else will just step in to fill that void. After all, people will always want to gamble, do drugs, and bang hookers, and somebody will always step in to meet that demand.

[Aphrel]

Yes, but only if they themselves were willing to immigrate and contribute

contribute

HAHAHA xD that isnt gonna happen in a million years

[Mehrunes]

Giving the vast amounts of money thrown at the Balkans in an attempt to stop you people murdering each other, I'd give other people the benefit of the doubt if I were you.

Yeah, because the Romanians were super involved in that.

[Freighter]

Marginalized ethnic groups tend to resort to crime because they have fewer options to advance in legitimate society.

So Americans going to South Korea are a marginalized ethnic group? I don't think so, many of them are rather well off economically and the ESL teachers often make more money than natives while teaching. While they're not the most problematic group they commit more sex and violent crime than koreans.

This doesn't excuse their behavior but it'd be silly to believe that simply kicking out all the minorities would eliminate crime, since somebody else will just step in to fill that void.

As I said, you don't understand your political opponents argument. Nobody is saying it would eliminate crime, they're saying there would be less crime.

After all, people will always want to gamble, do drugs, and bang hookers, and somebody will always step in to meet that demand.

Those are not the crimes people are taking issue with when it concerns foreigners committing crime, it's violent and sexual crimes people take issue with. Not if someone wants to gamble or fuck a prostitute or smoke weed.

[Mehrunes]

I am not claiming that is what they are saying. I am merely claiming that, regardless of the ethnic makeup of Europe, people there will always find some reason to hate on some group or another, and not just in the sense of a generic distrust of outsiders, but in a genuinely hateful, violent, and destructive manner. Oh sure, Europeans will always find some rationalization and place all of the blame on the target of their scorn, but you just have to look at the history to see that these assertions are always bullshit.

And that is somehow unique to Europeans how?

[AwkwardSquirtle]

Why on earth would a group who has been nomadic for centuries move to a country of their own to stay in one place? Because many residents of the countries they roam in don't like them? That hasn't stopped them doing things before.

[Macaquerie]

Can you please elaborate?



2) That's it. You've never heard of it, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. You can't shout out into the world "gypsies are bad" because of political correctness, but as a matter of fact, there are literally bands of gysies spending their days doing nothing else but harrasing others, mostly children, beating them up, teasing them or stealing. Then they are also leeching our welfare systems, taking away from those who actually need it like those with health problems, old people, people in crisis, etc which is literally oppressing those groups of people.

This is hardly unique to gypsies though, ostracized groups in any society will have greater involvement in crime and simply trying to pay them off can never solve the problem. Usually the issue is that there is such a huge gap of mistrust and suspicion that needs to be bridged, and in the case of gypsies they've been marginalized for so long that it's hard to imagine ANY kind of policy being successful at integrating them in a short period of time. However, that's no excuse to simply push them aside completely, because how exactly will constantly reminding gypsies of how much everybody hates them make them behave better?

[Deleted]

Gypsies are from India, so move them there ...

[Annamarine]

I’m sure most of Europe would be happy to toss them someplace in the Indian Ocean. I’m sure we could find some island Someplace to stop them from coming back and harassing tourists at landmarks.

[Najnaj]

Saying they'd have less crime if they didn't have arabs, africans, south asians or such isn't bullshit though from everything I've read about the situation. Seems very similar to the situation we have with uzbeks, sri lankans, kyrghistani, pakistani, mongols, russians and so on in South Korea.

It is BS. The moment you claim that an ethnic group of people are more criminal than another it is BS.

People who feel like they are standing outside society or people who have a difficult time financially commit more crime and this often includes immigrants and people who look different. This is statistically proven (over and OVER again), intuitive and more than a little obvious.

I don't understand why we keep having to repeat this insanely crystal clear little piece of common sense.

P.S. These "criminal ethnicities" would often include Koreans not that long ago... something to keep in mind.

[Deleted]

Absolutely not. I've hardly ever had such a strong opinion on them, but they are parasites. They broke into the house my sister had bought and destroyed the place while they lived there (while my sister was still living in her apartment preparing to move). Police can't take legal action when they occupy a house in Belgium (until recently when legislation was adapted). It's been a massive topic in Belgian news in 2017.

Displacing an existing population for them is nowhere close to being the right solution.

[vindicatorx]

Considering local communities hate their guts, I am just curious what to do about the European racism towards the Romani.

It's not racism for starts. You also make it sound like they haven't warranted scorn in the first place.

[Mittens]

W E W L A D

European racism is strong in this thread.

[Techno-Druid]

How does one make a nation out of culturally nomads? And that's the only thing that all European gypsies share.

I imagine the same way Mongolians and Hungarians established nations.

[EternalBany]

their homeland is india

send them back, all of them.

[Deleted]

I doubt any of our Finnish Romani would for a single second consider moving to Moldova. Which is the first problem; how are you going to take away their citizenship and deport them from their native country, a country in which they've been born no less? And not only how, but who are you to do that? Secondly, how exactly do you go about deciding to annex an area of a sovereign country for this use or that use? It was a moronic thing to do in Israel's case, and it would be even more so today.

Unless we're talking about creating a whole new island in the ocean, on international waters, then no, a new "homeland" can not be just "created", except by means of war.

[Techno-Druid]

their homeland is india

send them back, all of them.

Let's send the Finns 'back' to Siberia while we're at it!