Mythic++ System (5 man dungeons become 10 man raids)

[Chaelexi]

I'm simply suggesting an optional way to do dungeon content, that would expand the ability of the development team to be creative with 5 man content. Adding additional abilities and challenges to 5 man bosses when the dungeon converts into a raid would be really sweet, and I could see it as another way to involve smaller guilds in content together as a guild.

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But I don't see it as taking dev time away from "next tiers of content" because presumably if they are creating 5 man dungeons already, how hard is it to tweak and tune the bosses to have added abilities if players want to attempt them in the 10 man version that I am suggesting.

SO who is doing this tweak......DEVS, look at old 10 man raiding it is more than just a tweak where they tried to tweak it down from 25 man content, it failed miserably as it still does now. The bosses would have to be redesigned for you to have to handle multiple tanks, multiple healers and have hard enrage caps because the solution will always be throw more healing at it if you do not do this. So then yes you are taking DEV time away from developing real content.....RAIDS

[Darknessvamp]

It wouldn't be much of a Mythic + mode though, more like a Mini-raid upgrade unless you're suggesting they also scale higher and higher every time you complete a run. The only problem that comes to mind is that most of the arenas in dungeons aren't big enough to handle 10 players and abilities to support the bigger group size not to mention I can't see where the item level from these sort of mini raids would land in the overall gearing scheme. Especially with Mythic+ being a thing and it likely can't be better than normal mode gear from the actual raid.

[hollafame]

This would restrict their ability to create new dungeons to incorporate a vast array of mechanics and it'd probably also mean less dungeons to boot. No thanks.

[Deleted]

Would you be in favor of a system that allowed you to gain even greater challenge from the mythic dungeon system, by allowing you to bring up to 10 friends into a dungeon. It would effectively turn that instance of the dungeon into a 10 man raid, and when it increases in size to 10 player, the boss abilities are increased and the complexity of the fight becomes more involved.

We already have raids that do this exact thing.

[Dawon]

I think WoW already has these. I believe people call them raids.

Yeah,, i mean.. 10 man normal/hc... isnt that exactly what OP is talking about?? /superconfused

[Deleted]

Nice avatar.



So what would my favour not go to if I were in favour of those supposed raids that would totally not be once more recycled, and even more tired, old dungeons?
After all if I favour these, development time gets axed from something new.

[SL1200]

That would be a major change to the game. I thought mythic+ was for people who didn't want to set up a full raid team. Turning it into mini raids doesn't make a lot of sense to me. On the other hand maybe they could flex 5-10. It's not a terrible idea.

[digichi]

"would I be in favor of more content?"

Uhm... yes.

Super unrealistic though.

Yea it sounds like an awesome idea but i think they have a hard time tuning for 10 people (historically) and so thats why baseline 10-player-raids were also scrapped for a reason.

(i know its not impossible, but even with flex, ppl go for 12-14 rather than 10.)

[Cosmic Janitor]

FFS no, can't stand the current dungeons anymore because I've ran them for over a year already, I don't need another tier of repetition added to that.

[Swalload]

Wouldn't the ideal thing be to make all instanced pve content scale to all sizes and provide ways to make it challenging for multiple sizes instead of just one? That would give more content for ALL playstyles.

Sure if you want everything to take twice as long to design, tweak and come out or to have broken mechanics like KJ meteor soak that have a magic number of people to remove a meteor from the mechanic.

[D3athsting]

I only wish mythic+ would have a small chance of dropping tier pieces

[Deleted]

I only wish mythic+ would have a small chance of dropping tier pieces

The amounts of threads we'd have on this forum saying

"We *MUST* farm mythic+, otherwise we are not competitive in any way whatsoever".

[Nyel]

Yeah so they can even develop less content. Great!

[oldgeezer]

LF1M classraid UBRS?

[ComputerNerd]

The entire point of M+ is to do stuff that is not braindead like WQs, with your friends. No one wants to run around looking for more people to do stuff, it's completely stupid, we want to play, not manage a team.

If anything, make all raids 5 man, fuck playing with this neverending amount of people who seem to be using a laptop touch pad.

Telling you right now, make raids a 5man thing and this game will fucking skyrocket in popularity, people will shit bricks, break them down, eat them and shit them back out as new bricks once more.
Everybody (generalizing fuck yeah) is fucking tired of the raid system. I'm sure they can come up with good new 5man "raid machanic" which, let's be honest, it's just regular mechanic you could see anywhere but they just force teams to have more people to throw in the mechanics (enough people to soak, many lazers at once, and that's it the list is basically done).

The less people I have to teach in my group, the better I feel.

And how do you define a 5-man raid.
The options for complex mechanics is actually reduced with the reduction in the number of players, and the more limited roster as a result.
Going against the whole idea of making it less braindead, and going just the opposite way, bringing something called a raid down to dungeon level in every possible way.
Hugely contradictory.

[Garybear]

tbh id rather bring 5 people into a raid and make it feel like an elite tactical swat team

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I only wish mythic+ would have a small chance of dropping tier pieces

I VERY much agree with this!!! Maybe even have a dungeon tier set that is mutually exclusive with the raid/pvp(rip) tier. Something like what we saw in vanilla/bc.

[Deleted]

No, if you convert a 5 man dungeon to a mythic++ 10 man, the bosses become harder, gain new abilities / different mechanics to challenge a group of 10 players rather than just 5.

and you make them easier cause you have more dps.
So no, if you wanna do 10man do raids like its supposed to be.

[D3athsting]

The amounts of threads we'd have on this forum saying

"We *MUST* farm mythic+, otherwise we are not competitive in any way whatsoever".

I'm not saying that those tier pieces should be exclusive to m+ and not from raids, they could work like hc cache from 4x mythic dungeons or timewalking cache, tier could be hc level for 10+ and normal for +2 - +9 with increased chance at higher levels, also if you cap m+ with an in-time run (today would be +10 in time) you have the chance of getting a mythic tier piece from weekly cache

[Jaylock]

and you make them easier cause you have more dps.
So no, if you wanna do 10man do raids like its supposed to be.

Do you actually think before you post?

Isn't it implied that the health and damage of the bosses would increase?

[Swiftshadow]

tbh as a tank i kinda had enough of the same old same old. srsly.

1 - tank swaps
2 - don't stand in bad stuff
3 - help soak the bad stuff
4 - group adds with boss
5 - kite adds away from boss
6 - a combination of the above for harder difficulties

In Legion, there a few bosses that were at least different from the above :

EN - Heart of Corruption
ToV - Guarm
NH - Star Argus
ToS - Maiden

At least the above bosses featured some movement or position mechanics that were somewhat different from the others.

As for M+, personally I hate it, and don't really need the gear from it badly as heroic raid and some mythic raid gear is enough for me. I do 1 dungeon a week just for what I would call the Chest of False Hope.

But 10 man dungeons or 5 man raids somewhat seems redundant and counter-productive to me. Tomato, tomahtoe.

Although I really dislike the 20 man requirement for mythic raids. Can be sometimes quite inconvenient.

I will agree that there may be a need for shorter or smaller group content. Games requiring shorter timespan are much more popular these days.