2 gun owners trade shots during argument, hit school bus instead.

[Moralgy]

And you should because nothing applies to "everyone" just most people.

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Why does everyone think gun laws will be effective? The only thing stricter laws will do is make it more annoying for regular people to buy guns.

Maybe the two regular people that shot at each other in this story might not have got a gun cause they would have been deemed too mentally unstable to own with good mental health checks?

[Charge me Doctor]

And what exactly would change in this scenario with tougher gun laws and/or an outright ban?

These 2 "upstanding" citizens WOULD STILL HAVE THEIR FUCKING GUNS



I sure this guy is SOOOO concerned with gun laws...

It would change everything, and probably he wouldn't come to a conclusion "i need to get gun illegally", depending on accessibility of guns around the country. So, yeah, guns being banned or at least hard to get and not being widespread would change literally everything

[Schattenlied]

There's this amazing invention used to prevent firearms from crossing our borders illegally, it's called a metal detector and works very well.

Yes, and how well does that work when they are in shipping containers, or in the backs of big rig trailers, buried in boxes with other metal objects? Not at all. You gonna make border patrol agents check every single box manually? It's much easier with drugs because they can, well, you know, use dogs to sniff out the drugs, can't do that with guns.

Also, if it is so easy to make guns, why doesn't most every criminal have them in other countries that have banned guns?

I'd wager because

1. Most other countries don't have organized (and sometimes very large) gangs of extremely violent criminals like the US does (or a prison system that breeds them), many of which are essentially at war with each other (which is where the vast majority of the gun violence in this country comes from), and therefore there isn't a demand for them.

and

2. Until like 2 years ago a CnC machine capable of milling out gun parts cost around 6x as much as they do now... The price of something dropping to ~$1,500 from ~$9,000 lowers the barrier of entry considerably... You can now get all the tools and machines you need to do this for ~$2500 total instead of ~$12,000

[bladeXcrasher]

Entirely different topic and has no bearing what so ever. Gun violence =/= general homocidal rate
Why do I give a shit about people getting stabbed/suffocated/etc when talking about gun control? C'mon guy

And please ffs read the article the graph came from before anybody else uses the term ''chery picked'' like an idiot.

Let me ask you something BladeX. Why are you so keen on arguing against me and defending the current system with guns in America? Are you satisfied with the countless gun incidents and shootings that happen on an almost daily basis in the country? Losing those lives is an acceptable loss to you? It's just ''the price of freedom''?

Please quote me were I stated my stance on gun control in the United States or what about me commenting on the absurdity of someone living in a literal war zone, of their own free will none the less, to comment on a very specific portion of violence in the United States means that I am okay with the ~37 daily gun deaths in the United States?

But if you want to be specific about the gun homicides, Mexico is still ~ twice that per 100k people than the United States, so yeah, your pancreatic cancer analogy is still trash.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ted_death_rate

Additionally, I don't own any firearms and I do believe that the United States needs to stop catering to lobbyists but that they also need to crack down on the root causes of gun violence. Some of this includes but is limited to: not allowing stupid things like bump stocks to be legally made and sold but illegal to install; cracking down on private firearms sales not covered by the BHVPA; etc etc etc. So please continue with the ad-hominems and projections.

Maybe the two regular people that shot at each other in this story might not have got a gun cause they would have been deemed too mentally unstable to own with good mental health checks?

You did read the article right? At least 1 guy is a convicted felon, he can't legally purchase or own a gun in the United States. So, no, mental health checks do not solve anything in this scenario. Nothing other than removing access completely solves this scenario.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

It's much easier with drugs because they can, well, you know, use dogs to sniff out the drugs, can't do that with guns.

Yes they can:

http://forensicoutreach.com/library/...etection-dogs/

3. Concealed weapons and firearms.
Dogs can be trained to sniff out ammunition, and guns themselves, from the distinctive odour they produce. For dogs, the smell of gunpowder is particularly noticeable. Springer Spaniels are particularly useful in finding guns, due to their keen sense of smell, and well-known enthusiasm! Labradors are also utilised largely due to their ability to retrieve.

[Schattenlied]

Yes they can:

http://forensicoutreach.com/library/...etection-dogs/

they can sniff out guns that have been fired. whoopdedo, now truck in freshly manufactured firearms that haven't been fired and only smell like the metal they are made out of, the same metal the other shit they are packaged with is made out of, and the dogs are useless. Ammo doesn't need to be smuggled in because, as in every country that has tight restrictions on firearms, ammo can still be purchased in country... not to mention manufactured even easier and with far less machinery than guns themselves require.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

they can sniff out guns that have been fired. whoopdedo, now truck in freshly manufactured firearms that haven't been fired and only smell like the metal they are made out of, the same metal the other shit they are packaged with is made out of, and the dogs are useless. Ammo doesn't need to be smuggled in because, as in every country that has tight restrictions on firearms, ammo can still be purchased in country... not to mention manufactured even easier and with far less machinery than guns themselves require.

I was under the impression that most gun manufacturers test fire their guns before shipping.

[Khallid]

The solution, obviously, is to start selling kevlar shirts in stores :P

If you were wearing a Kevlar shirt you would be less worried about the gunman in front of you, so your own gun would probably win the argument.

[Schattenlied]

I was under the impression that most gun manufacturers test fire their guns before shipping.

they generally test 1 or 2 out of a batch, as is the standard with most things that are mass produced... As long as a firearm passes a function check, which doesn't require firing ammunition at all, they will ship it... and if someone is illicitly producing guns specifically to ship over the border, they would just not test fire any of them. If these people have the capabilities to manufacture massive amounts of drugs, they are more than able to get the means to manufacture firearms. If there was suddenly a demand for them like there most definitely would be if they were made illegal, you can bet your ass they would start making and shipping guns right alongside their drugs, if not just set up to manufacture them in the US and bypass the border completely, since it wouldn't be difficult to conceal like drug manufacturing is.

They exist to make money, and if a market opened up that massive, that they already have connections to through selling their drugs, they would hop on it real quick.

[Khallid]

I was under the impression that most gun manufacturers test fire their guns before shipping.

The lack of regulations make it easy for firearm manufacturers to sell shit. Try googling cases of people sent to jail because "a gun misfired" was not accepted in court, but the gun in question was total shit that would misfire.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

they generally test 1 or 2 out of a batch, as is the standard with most things that are mass produced... As long as a firearm passes a function check, which doesn't require firing ammunition at all, they will ship it... and if someone is illicitly producing guns specifically to ship over the border, they would just not test fire any of them. If these people have the capabilities to manufacture massive amounts of drugs, they are more than able to get the means to manufacture firearms, and if there was suddenly a demand for them like there most definitely would be if the were made illegal, you can bet your ass they would start making and shipping guns right alongside their drugs.

Most illegal weapon shipments are not illicitly produced though.

[Schattenlied]

Most illegal weapon shipments are not illicitly produced though.

not right now, because they don't need to be so there is no point.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

not right now, because they don't need to be so there is no point.

So you're just making an assumption that they would just start mass-producing weapons as well as drugs?

[Lartok]

No other country has the gang problem we have either. That isn't a thing because of guns, they would exist regardless.
Until criminals started manufacturing their own... Which as I already said, isn't terribly difficult.

It is terribly difficult compared to the current process of acquiring a gun AND it's also easier to police people creating guns than people owning guns. It's pretty simple logic, reduce the amount of guns created reduces the amount of guns available and therefor the amount of people that own a gun.

[adamzz]

Current situation in the USA is fine. Homicides by firearm are a very tiny fraction of the Population as been stated before.

So you are just going to ignore the fact that the US has over 20times higher gun related deaths per capita than other developed countries?

[Schattenlied]

So you're just making an assumption that they would just start mass-producing weapons as well as drugs?

Why wouldn't they? They exist to make money, and it would be a massive market to exploit... They would even be selling them mostly to the same people as their drugs.

[ovm33]

EDIT: Here is the chart one more time for you to see. USA is in a league of its own vs the rest of the developed world and it's both sad and embarrassing, but yea, let's keep talking about Mexico bc I ruffled your jimmies.

Here's a list of the 22 largest drug producing countries in the world. On your graph only one country borders one of those 22. (And happens to be a short boat ride from 3 more.)

https://www.state.gov/j/inl/rls/nrcr...ol1/238913.htm

The following major illicit drug producing and/or drug-transit countries were identified and notified to Congress by the President on September 14, 2014, consistent with section 706(1) of the Foreign Relations Authorization Act, Fiscal Year 2003 (Public Law 107-228):

1. Afghanistan
2. The Bahamas
3. Belize
4. Bolivia
5. Burma
6. Colombia
7. Costa Rica
8. Dominican Republic
9. Ecuador
10. El Salvador
11. Guatemala
12. Haiti
13. Honduras
14. India
15. Jamaica
16. Laos
17. Mexico
18. Nicaragua
19. Pakistan
20. Panama
21. Peru
22. Venezuela

The U.S. has a drug crime problem. Gun deaths are only a symptom.

[adamzz]

Here's a list of the 22 largest drug producing countries in the world. On your graph only one country borders one of those 22. (And happens to be a short boat ride from 3 more.)

https://www.state.gov/j/inl/rls/nrcr...ol1/238913.htm

1. Afghanistan
2. The Bahamas
3. Belize
4. Bolivia
5. Burma
6. Colombia
7. Costa Rica
8. Dominican Republic
9. Ecuador
10. El Salvador
11. Guatemala
12. Haiti
13. Honduras
14. India
15. Jamaica
16. Laos
17. Mexico
18. Nicaragua
19. Pakistan
20. Panama
21. Peru
22. Venezuela

The U.S. has a drug crime problem. Gun deaths are only a symptom.

So, where is your proof that gun related deaths are because of drugs? Correlation does not equal causation.

[Milchshake]

So, where is your proof that gun related deaths are because of drugs? Correlation does not equal causation.

Lol of course a State Department Chart wouldn't list the US as a drug producing country. Its outside their jurisdiction.

It would also cast a bad light on rural white people that produce a fuck ton more meth or marijuana than the output of the Bahamas. Do not impunge their economic anxiety. Which they choose to self-medicate.

[Moltentank19]

Was the first gun even real, theres no sound and there was no muzzle flash and theres no way you would miss from 6 feet lol