Mafia 93 Game Thread - Minions

[Graeham]

I'm really baffled by the decision to go after Danner like that. Literally everything he posted yesterday screamed 'Town Danner' and he has an established track record of going very quiet or flailing about when scum as he is known to loathe the pressure that comes with it. With that in mind, it was obvious to me that he wasn't scum - and unlike most players this game he actually went back and dug through the post to back up with theories with solid evidence.

Today will likely be another unmitigated disaster. It's more likely than not that the remaining scum player has investigation immunity. It's not even some bold, wild theory - it's standard for a game like this. A bolder theory would be that we don't actually have a Doctor and that Crackleslap is just making a very clever play by claiming to be one. I won't rule that out as impossible but I'd rather not gamble on something like that as for me it comes down to the remaining scum being between Largehorn and Marack.

The problem, then, following Danner's reasoning is that both Largehorn and Marack were on my train at a point when it seemed set to make me D1's likely lynch. If it wasn't for Blood Fox only having one post and not showing up afterwards to defend himself that I would have been lynched. It wouldn't make much sense for scum to risk lynching their Godfather on D1, either. Not in a simple game where there's not going to be any 'traitors' who benefit from doing so.

[Largehorn]

Unless you know without a doubt who the last scum is (I'm putting my money on Graeham at this point, because we know that he'd do exactly what people are saying makes him town... as scum), you should be in favor of a no-lynch.

It removes one more person from the pool without giving scum the win.

Now, I'm willing to lynch Graeham though because at this point it's him (or Marack as a investigation immune GF) but I really think we should probably pass this day off as a no-lyncher and come back tomorrow.

[Graeham]

...and this is precisely why I loathe not being scum in these games.

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Still, I'm just going to point to Danner's posts once again. His logic is sound and I'm not just saying that because he spoke up to defend me. I'm saying it because he backed up his theories with an in-depth analysis - which is far more than has been done by those who have voted on me or expressed a desire to do so. It's also laughable to use the events of a previous game as a reason to vote on someone in the subsequent game. I'd still grumble about it happening on D1 yet reluctantly accept it but beyond that? It's silly. It's also rather bizarre, though, given that Largehorn was also very devious as scum in that game yet has mostly been given a free pass by comparison.

Yet I fear today isn't going to amount to very much at all. Between timezone differences and people only really showing up to vote/debate towards the deadline I believe this game is going to be one of those games were town had clear advantages in the early to mid game yet screw it up by making poorly thought out decisions in the late game.

[Largehorn]

...and this is precisely why I loathe not being scum in these games.

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Still, I'm just going to point to Danner's posts once again. His logic is sound and I'm not just saying that because he spoke up to defend me. I'm saying it because he backed up his theories with an in-depth analysis - which is far more than has been done by those who have voted on me or expressed a desire to do so. It's also laughable to use the events of a previous game as a reason to vote on someone in the subsequent game. I'd still grumble about it happening on D1 yet reluctantly accept it but beyond that? It's silly. It's also rather bizarre, though, given that Largehorn was also very devious as scum in that game yet has mostly been given a free pass by comparison.

Yet I fear today isn't going to amount to very much at all. Between timezone differences and people only really showing up to vote/debate towards the deadline I believe this game is going to be one of those games were town had clear advantages in the early to mid game yet screw it up by making poorly thought out decisions in the late game.

Graeham, the importance here isn't that I've "been given a free pass". I have the advantage of my innocence being public record.

On the other hand you haven't been. That's why I'm pretty sure you're the scum remaining. It has much less to do with the way things have gone so far otherwise this game.

I honestly agree with Danner on his assessment of your play. The difference is, if the remaining scum was investigation immune, I don't think they would have killed Listo. He wasn't a threat to them. In fact being investigated would show that all the other innocents couldn't be believed. It's a reset back to no cop investigations.

That said, I still think are best course of action is no-lynching here. I could be wrong with my belief of your guilt.

[Marack]

Vote: Graeham

I think Graeham is the remaining scum. As much as I like your reasoning behind a no-lynch, Im not sure it will help us. I think it would put us back in more or less the same point tomorrow...

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Well, day is more then half over..
@Crackleslap what do you think?

[Graeham]

Well, as far as I see it the remaining scum is between Largehorn and Marack. I can't completely rule out Crackle as a possibility with a bold fake claim but I feel like that's far less likely and much too risky to pursue because there's a good chance I'm wrong in that regard.

Vote: Marack

You've been desperate to see me lynched all game with no valid reasoning. You haven't even given a reason as to why you think I'm scum. You're also still ignoring Danner's efforts with no apology or acknowledgment for screwing up. Tunnel vision at it's finest, I suppose. Then again, this exactly why I hate being town - scum exploit me as an easy mislynch and often town themselves do so as well because they can't be bothered putting any effort into the game and either follow what they're told to do by a TPR or they just pick a random person and hope for the best.

We're also at a critical point in the game and you're still putting out posts with barely any substance to them. Why is that?

[Marack]

@Graeham I voted you D1 based on last game. Other then that, this is the only time Ive put my vote there.

[Graeham]

@Graeham I voted you D1 based on last game. Other then that, this is the only time Ive put my vote there.

You did, yes. You've also stated multiple times that you're willing to lynch me on subsequent days without giving any solid reasons or an attempt at providing evidence - and even now nobody has even bothered to acknowledge that lynching Danner was a mistake or reexamine his past posts with the knowledge of his alignment.

Yet that's par the course for these games lately. Minimal effort on town's part, very little actual engagement and key players not showing up until a few hours before deadline; at which point they usually just throw a vote at an existing train and hope for the best...or they just blindly follow a TPR.

[Marack]

You did, yes. You've also stated multiple times that you're willing to lynch me on subsequent days

So willing to vote you and actually voting you are the same thing now.... good to know.

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Im also now trying to reply bewteen mythic pulls...

It doesnt help that Crackle is MIA.

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Unvote

/10

[Graeham]

I have a feeling that Crackleslap isn't going to show up until there's only a few hours left. At which point I'm unlikely to be around. That certainly isn't going to help matters - and it does add some merit to Largehorn's approach. A no lynch isn't the ideal route but I like it slightly better than relying on flailing about close to deadline to figure out which is the best route to take. We're at a point in the game where we desperately need everybody to be engaging and I'm very uncomfortable giving people a free pass just because they have an innocent result on them or because they claim to be a TPR.

It's not even that I necessarily have any strong feelings one way or the other, I just cannot point out firmly enough that it is more likely than not that the remaining scum player is investigation immune. That would be fairly balanced, after all, when we know that the other two scum were nothing more than standard goons. So at this point nobody is above suspicion.

Listo being killed off also makes a lot of sense. It prevented him from investigating me to confirm my alignment which makes me an even more appealing target to lynch than before - especially with each of the remaining players having expressed a willingness to lynch me. He was, for all intents and purposes, effectively confirmed as town so eliminating him served to muddy the waters further.

Regardless...

Unvote

[Crackleslap]

I'm back now! Football distracted me! + sleep

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My thoughts are I hate all three of you.

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If Marack is the GF then he will win cuz I'm not going to vote him.

Graeham/Largehorn are my targets. Upon reflection the whole graeham pushing investigation immune think makes more sense (or well genuine). So this is making me believe Largehorn.

Feel like ALrgehorn was strategically sitting back this page letting Marach/Graeham turn on each other. Or he could be busy. Who knows.

[Marack]

So now that raid is done... 2.5 hours in Mythic with a friends guild and clearing Heroic with mine...

What do we want to do the remainder of this gameday?

Crackle wont vote for me...
I wont vote for Crackle...

[Graeham]

Feel like ALrgehorn was strategically sitting back this page letting Marach/Graeham turn on each other. Or he could be busy. Who knows.

It's a possibility. Looking back at how things played out during the previous day phase I also want to point out something that may or may not be of interest:

- Post #129: Largehorn casts a vote on Crackleslap, states that he wants everybody to claim.
- Post #130: I state that I am a VT.
- Post #131: Danner puts forward his theories, defends me and claims to be a VT.
- Post #132: I cast a vote on Crackleslap based largely on how quiet he has been.
- Post #133: Crackleslap claims to be the Doctor and reveals he defended Listo. This alerts the remaining scum that he is a viable target the following night.
- Post #136: Danner votes on Largehorn. Explains his theories further.
- Post #137: I vote Largehorn.
- Post #138: Largehorn votes for Danner. States that I am following Danner around like a lost puppy.
- Post #139: Danner explains his reasoning further.
- Post #140: Listo asks for character claims.
- Post #141: Danner claims.
- Post #142: Largehorn claims his character name and makes a point to say he is town. I may have missed it, but did he ever claim what his role actually was? Regardless, he plays down Danner's theories and suggests that either Danner or myself are scum and that we're hoping to push the lynch on someone else to let another investigation go through. This is very interesting as, by that point, Crackle had already revealed that Listo had been protected the previous night. So, naturally, unless Crackle was lying or playing WIFOM then Listo would be a safe bet for a kill the following night.
- Post #143: Danner elaborates further as to his reasoning.
- Post #145: I claim my character name.
- Post #146: Marack summarises the existing claims. No solid claim from Largehorn, just an 'innocent' from Listo and his character name. Unless we're both missing something?
- Post #153: Listo votes Danner. It's very near to the deadline.
- Post #154: Marack points out that Largehorn and Danner are at two votes each.
- Post #155: Crackleslap votes for Danner.
- Post #156: Marack votes for Danner.
- Post #157: Danner is lynched and confirmed town.

With all that in mind and combined with Crackle's theory I can't shake the feeling that there's something very off about Largehorn. Especially with his insistence that other people claim without doing so himself.

Vote: Largehorn

[Marack]

Im heading to bed... but before I do.

Vote: Largehorn

I feel its between Large or Graeham. Graeham has very solid reasoning above, and I cant shake the fact that Danner had Grae pegged before that mislynch on Danner. Dont think Grae would have played the this way following his tactic from last game. Feeling more town out of him at this point.

That being said, Crackle could have played us with the "I protected listo," but I feel he is who he says he is.

I should be back on before deadline... about 30-45min before deadline.

[Crackleslap]

Feel like I want to hear Largehorn chime in before I vote. But I could just end it right now. :/

[Graeham]

Feel like I want to hear Largehorn chime in before I vote. But I could just end it right now. :/

Well, the fact you did not simply hammer means the 'Crackle is actually playing us all' theory can safely go out the window.

I'll be around for a bit longer, though after I head off I likely won't be able to be back before the deadline.

[Largehorn]

Don't do this.

You are wrong.

I will reiterate this again. Lynch the ONE PERSON NOT INVESTIGATED if you are going to lynch anyone. Why kill Listo if the last scum was immune? Crackle is the much bigger threat to them.

But that's still dumb. There are 4 people alive. 1 of them is scum. A no-lynch means that scum has to try and deal with us. If we are wrong here we can lose.

[Graeham]

It's clear from your questions that you didn't bother reading through my previous post nor are you bothering to respond to the points stacked against you.

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I also believe it's safe to consider your 'no lynch' approach to be extremely flawed. You encouraged everybody to claim yesterday yet did not do so yourself. In the process, Crackle revealed that he was the Doctor and that he had protected Listo on the previous night. By that point, nobody expressed any doubts that Listo was town. Scum killing him at that point in the game makes perfect sense, so I'm not sure why you're so desperately trying to downplay it.

It's also pretty strange that you're feigning disbelief at Listo being killed yet conveniently pushing for the only player not to be investigated to be the day's lynch option. Danner already made a very elaborate case as to why he believed that I wasn't scum based on Crissi's actions. Someone who tried pretty desperately to get me lynched yet failed and ended up self voting out of frustration when caught out. This happened after I already almost ended up being lynched back on D1 and only survived because Blood Fox did not show up to make more than a single post.

You also sought to downplay the theory that the remaining scum is an investigation immune godfather. It's a standard game with both a cop and a doctor such a role would make perfect sense. So, again, I question why you're feigning disbelief at what is a very plausible theory.

Since Crackleslap could not protect Listo last night it is very likely that he protected himself instead. Which means that even with a no lynch he would likely end up dead. Which would bring us down to three players. This would have worked in your favour, I believe, since you would no doubt seek to sow distrust between Marack and myself by claiming that the only viable choice is to lynch the player that did not get investigated by Listo.

[Largehorn]

Graeham.

You've done a great job up until this point. Really you have. But this isn't a me wanting to "sow" distrust. You've been caught again doing something that surely scum would "never" do.

It's fine. I get you wanting to pass this off. Just one more mislynch and you can still win. And yet... I'm still not going to vote for you today.

Because when there are 4 players alive, 1 of them scum. Town should no lynch.

I'm not saying that there isn't an Investigation Immune GF, but if there is, 1) it isn't me 2) Killing Listo last night wasn't a very brilliant play 3) removal of a different confirmed townie would have resulted in easier town manipulation especially with the townies who remain 4) You don't know who Crackle protected last night.

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And I'm more convinced that you're the scum because you are pushing so hard on this.

So I guess I'm going to have to just hope that Crackle stops your kill tonight, because that's the only way it seems that town can still win this game.

[Graeham]

You're not making much sense and you're cherry picking what you choose to respond to. Why did you insist on making everybody claim yesterday only to not bother doing so yourself?