New expansion's premise is pretty terrible from the lore stand point.

[Explicit Teemo Nudes]

I want the factions to be in conflict and don't like this cooperation like what we've seen in class halls.
It's like we're working together, then in confligt, working together and then in conflict again.
It gets silly and the story gets watered down.
Shouldn't have cooperated to begin with.

[Mojo03]

Honestly, this community is going to shit because of all the Negative Nancy, spoon-fed, absurdly expectant players like the OP.

I haven't even had time to read through half the updates from Blizzcon and I'm already hyped simply because it's Blizzard and their IPs.

You're either going to play it anyway, or not. There's absolutely zero point in complaining about 90% of this shit. You don't run the company and considering the last 6+ years, it doesn't matter what they (Blizz) chooses to do, because a lot of you would complain regardless.

Y'all should be thankful they at least listen, even remotely, to player feedback, instead of just rolling out countless and pointless games a la Call of Duty etc. (In before some twat mentions the difference between an FPS and an MMORPG).

We're getting content. Consistently.

And it's 100x better than the majority of basic shit that's out there right now, whether it's WoW or OW or Hearthstone.

Y'all need to take a minute and breathe or something and stop being so absurdly unhappy with EVERYTHING Blizzard does and just enjoy it for what it is.

They're behind the wheel. Sit back or jump the fuck out.

Any forum these days is full of this drivel and people wonder why the community isn't the same as it used to be.

That's what happens when a company actually listens to their players; changes are made and not everyone agrees with them because they can't please 100% of their players without making the most ridiculous games ever.

I'm stoked. I'm always stoked.

Seriously feel sorry for those of you endlessly nitpicking about anything and everything, you must be real motivating and pleasant people to know IRL.

You can't get mad at people for feeling a certain way or try to make them feel guilty for not liking it. That's called being a controlling dbag.

I've been in this community since the beginning, it's literally never not been how it is now or "how it used to be", it's always been like this for better or worse. People voice their opinion. Actually things used to be farrrrr more serious and toxic then they are now.

They actually listened to their players and made changes? About what exactly? What is different than this and COD? They both consist of the same thing with slight changes every new release.

Enlighten me.

[StationaryHawk]

But after losing so many troops on the Broken Shore and still being weak after the loss of Garroshes Horde in MoP, why would Sylvanas feel secure enough to go to war with the Alliance? The last time we went to war, was because Garrosh wanted to just fight and he did not really care about if the Horde was ready or not. He was lucky, that the Horde was in a great state, but right now the Horde is weak and lacks the superiority to go to battle with the Alliance.

I agree, that Greymanes attack on Sylvanas could be seen as an action of War, but nothing came of it. Genn mostly lost in Stormheim and only won in the end by destroying the lantern of submission.

What i am really missing is the spark. The one event, that leaves us all with the thought "Well, war is the only answer now". I need for some horde or alliance character to do a logical thing, that leads to inevitable war, where we all can understand why. Just having Sylvanas burn down Teldrassil out of random aggresion or having Genn persuade Anduin to go to war because....reasons, is really gonna leave a sour taste in my mouth.

Both sides are weak, but arguably the Horde more so depending on how severe the loss on the Broken Shore was. I agree that she's certainly not in a superior position but, if the novel sample is anything to go by, she's at least considered the need for more resources.

Ultimately, we're missing chunks of the story. We've seen a battle and an aftermath, but what happens between now and then is yet to come in the novel and whatever they choose to place in the game. You'll have your answers when they arrive, and until then it's largely speculation. All I'll repeat is that real wars have started over grudges and slights before. Not everything comes down to the best logical reasoning, as much as we'd like to believe it does.

[Scottyjscizzle]

Humans in real life can't manage not to fight, why would races as vastly different as the ones I wow?

[wobbrocker]

I didn't dig nor share Blizzard idea that Horde and Alliance need only a spark to start the war.

Time of racial war ended with WC3 ending, then it was ended once again in MoP showing the ugly face of xenophobia and "no winner" situation.
I thought sane creatures will learn their mistakes and take the peace gladly.

Can I just point out that this isn't even the case in real life. Why the heck would it make sense in a game lol

[Flurryfang]

wouldn't getting king varian wryn killed be a good reason?

Well both the Horde and Alliance was really getting their asses kicked by the time Sylvans called for a retreat, so that the Horde fled first did not really cause Varians death.

Even if that is what Genn might be trying to use agaisnt Anduin, it does seem like Anduin and many of the other leaders does not blame the Horde for the loss, only Genn really. It would be odd if after all this time, Anduin suddenly thinks that his father falling to the Legion is good enough reasons to call in the banners and go to war on Lordaeron, like a personal attack on Sylvanas.

[shaunika123]

The pissing content between the bone bags and the furries is none of my personal concern, nor should it be that of the rest of the Horde. I'd rather do something useful than be dragged into yet another conflict by Sylvanas. And yes, it's a shift to go from two sub-factions killing each other (which is fine to justify PvP) to a world-spanning total war. The USSR didn't start nuking the world because of Vietnam.

And as for Jaina, nobody seemed to give a shit about what she thought, even her own Council in Dalaran. Plus, it's rich to get lessons about abandoning the Alliance's king from the person who was nowhere to be seen when said King was in danger, despite being able to teleport armies on a whim.

greymane fucked over the warchief of the entire horde, super hard. it wasnt just "two subfactions" sylvanas was warchief at that point, an attack at her is an attack at the entire horde.

or if he did that to thrall back in the day, would you have said "well it's only the orcs he's screwing with"

and the USSR might've started nuking, if they took the promise of immortality from Khrushchev

Well both the Horde and Alliance was really getting their asses kicked by the time Sylvans called for a retreat, so that the Horde fled first did not really cause Varians death.

but the cinematics clearly show they don't know that

[Deleted]

Lets just make a list, shall we?

The Horde backstabed in WotLK at the Wrathgate ordered by Sylvanas, unprovoked.
The Horde went full fledged war against the Alliance by Garrosh attacking Ashenvale and manabombing Theramore in Cata, unprovoked.
The Horde attacked and seized Gilneas in Cata by Sylvanas, unprovoked.
The Horde used Dalaran to attack Darnassus in MoP, yet again unprovoked and backstabbing.
The Horde backstabed the Alliance yet again at the broken Shore, leading to the Death of Varian.

Now the list of what the Alliance did:

Burned down Camp Taurjo.
Layed siege to Orgrimmar und left soon after without occupation, tribute seizing or eben a forced disarmment, or any demand.

[ChampionChains]

its not just that, See, all the excitement people are having to this, no matter what they claim, it will NEVER live up to the hype or expectations.

World of Warcraft, despite its name, till always be limited in what it can do from a gameplay perspective. You will NEVER have a faction victory, you have small victories here and there, but you will never have it that one side beats the other.

This is why war themes like it was in mists and this coming expansion, just feels like a waste of time, leading only to an unsatisfying conclusion.

This is an entirely dumb argument which can be applied to horde and alliance vs third party force as well. The players can never save Azeroth, every time we beat one enemy, another bigger one comes right on it's heels. Does that make every xpac a "waste of time" since we never actually save anything, only buy a little more time?

Warcraft was built on horde vs alliance, we need far more xpacs and content that focuses on that fact. Vanilla and every xpac since has been "put horde/alliance war on hold, we got a thirdy party we need to team up to defeat" (with mop to a lesser extent, but even that was horde and alliance buddy cops vs garrosh). it's about time we got to the fighting that drew in long time warcraft fans from the beginning and has always been kinda teased, but never delivered. At this point, horde and alliance might as well not exist as even RBGs and arenas pit you against your own faction as well as pvp brawls WQ areas. We need something to inject the war back into WARcraft.

And of course you can't have a winner in a 2 faction game. What you're asking for with that is finality and total resolution, which is the death of a MMO. It doesn't matter that neither side will win, to be cliche "it's about the journey, not the destination". Let us fight it out a little, I'm ready to not be fighting demons and elementals and AU orcs of no consequence. Let's fight the war we all signed up for 13 years ago and participated in for several years prior in the RTS titles. If we beat each other to the brink of death and are about to suicide bomb each other and leave Azeroth a barren waste devoid of all life then a void lord pops his head out of the clouds and sylvanas and anduin lock eyes and we once again put the war aside to join against a 3rd party threat, awesome. At least Blizz let us beat on each other for an xpac and fight out over a decade of pent up faction friction.

[Devilyaki]

Have to agree, seems like a step back in story telling, they were all working together to get the legion then like mindless fools we all just go and start fighting one another again... why? so stupid, I haven't been so uninterested in a expansion ever. This war is stupid, wish my characters could just leave the madness of this war.

[Deleted]

I didn't dig nor share Blizzard idea that Horde and Alliance need only a spark to start the war.

Time of racial war ended with WC3 ending, then it was ended once again in MoP showing the ugly face of xenophobia and "no winner" situation.
I thought sane creatures will learn their mistakes and take the peace gladly. Iron Horde once again show how the war is bad.
And on the Broken Shore, the Horde left Alliance alone after their leader was heavily wounded. They had a legit excuse, but they still left Alliance alone. Seeing the orcs and taurens as people of Honor, i bet Baine and Saurfang and their people had some little burden on them after doing this.

I mainly speaking about the Horde, cause it seems they were the first who hit Alliance once again, burning down the Teldrassil.
Dont Blizzard see that given all things i described above most of their main Horde characters won't start the war? Neither Baine, neither Saurfang (dont forget Eitrigg), nor Lor'themar. But it seems they gladly rush in it, like nothing happened before.

I dont know details, of course. But for now it seems that Blizzard simply butcher their story and their characters with this all out Horde vs Alliance war. It looks really noticeable because Blizzard tried too hard to tell us that Horde and Alliance are bloody enemies. They dont explain well WHY.
I believe with good story writing none of Horde leaders would follow Sylvanas (who, again, seems to be the only leader who really seeks vendetta) at worst. They would imprison her or kill at best to prevent of what happened in MoP, previous World Wars and following events of WoD.

If we will took into consideration that it was Alliance who started the war first, then the things would look even worse. None of Alliance leaders except Greymane has the really legit reasons to start the war given all previous events and the fact that its uhm... the war.

It's what you do with a dying game. Have a long running faction conflict to which you add minor updates to over the years instead of wasting resources on big expansions.

[maccajoe]

You've got it backwards having it H v A makes for better character development. Characters cant develop when there is some big bad in the sky that we all have to join up and fight. Also you dont need a specific reason for war and even if there isnt any you make some. Teldrassil is burnt to the ground and undercity is being attacked and a new powerful substance is leaking from the planet seems like a reason for war to me.

[iamthedevil]

Have to agree, seems like a step back in story telling, they were all working together to get the legion then like mindless fools we all just go and start fighting one another again... why? so stupid, I haven't been so uninterested in a expansion ever. This war is stupid, wish my characters could just leave the madness of this war.

How? The factions have NEVER gotten along.

[Wyrt]

If there's not serious and deep divisions within the Alliance over the human's unilateral decision to start a war with the Horde then Blizzard's writing is just beyond shit tier.

If we have to sit through another bullshit filled story about how we have to unite behind the retarded human king...

[Jastall]

greymane fucked over the warchief of the entire horde, super hard. it wasnt just "two subfactions" sylvanas was warchief at that point, an attack at her is an attack at the entire horde.

or if he did that to thrall back in the day, would you have said "well it's only the orcs he's screwing with"

and the USSR might've started nuking, if they took the promise of immortality from Khrushchev






but the cinematics clearly show they don't know that

A Warchief that doesn't care about the Horde and wasn't even on a mission for it, instead looking for more ways to delay her death.

Point is, if they want to make me cheer on their faction war, they need to make me care about the factions in the first place. I can't give two shits about Sylvanas and Anduin and I have no patience for stupid people killing each other for stupid reasons. And stupid people doing stupid things is the only way Blizzard knows how to write the faction war since they can no longer use the ''Orcs bad, humans good' card to make it easy.

If there are no divisions within the factions as to the decision to go on an all-out war I'll be seriously disappointed. Why should the Night Elves be ok with getting attacked because they're the nearest target, again, and the Alliance failing to help, again? Why should the Orcs and Taurens, weakened as they were by the Siege of Orgrimmar and the Legion invasion, be OK with waging a war that will apparently be kicked into overdrive by Sylvanas alone and from which they do not benefit?

[shaunika123]

Lets just make a list, shall we?

The Horde backstabed in WotLK at the Wrathgate ordered by Sylvanas, unprovoked.
The Horde went full fledged war against the Alliance by Garrosh attacking Ashenvale and manabombing Theramore in Cata, unprovoked.
The Horde attacked and seized Gilneas in Cata by Sylvanas, unprovoked.
The Horde used Dalaran to attack Darnassus in MoP, yet again unprovoked and backstabbing.
The Horde backstabed the Alliance yet again at the broken Shore, leading to the Death of Varian.

wrathgate was Varimathras behind sylvanas's back
Gilneas, and theramore and darnassus were garrosh being a colossal cunt, (hell parts of the horde even tried to prevent theramore and did everything they could to help jaina). most of what happened there wasnt something the horde wanted to do.
the horde didnt backstab them in the broken shore, shore they retreated because their warchief died. they even signalled the alliance with their horns that they're fucking off.

anything else?

I have no patience for stupid people killing each other for stupid reasons.

you've just described every war ever

[Flurryfang]

Both sides are weak, but arguably the Horde more so depending on how severe the loss on the Broken Shore was. I agree that she's certainly not in a superior position but, if the novel sample is anything to go by, she's at least considered the need for more resources.

Ultimately, we're missing chunks of the story. We've seen a battle and an aftermath, but what happens between now and then is yet to come in the novel and whatever they choose to place in the game. You'll have your answers when they arrive, and until then it's largely speculation. All I'll repeat is that real wars have started over grudges and slights before.

See if she wanted more resourses and to strengthend the position of the Horde, i could see her go aggresive, but why Teldrassil? And why not attack other more weak and resoursefull areas, that the alliance control? If Blizzard showed, that she had raided hinterlands, the Wetlands and other areas, i could see a good reason why Anduin would risk taking his entire army to Lordaeron to push her off the Eastern Kingdoms for good, to actually create safety on his side of the world.

I really hope, that we have only seen a small glimps into the overall pre-story for BFA and that there will be alot of playable content to explain why the war happends. (If they make all the story happend in a book, i will personally go to Blizzcon next year and throw tomatoes at the lore team and ask them why i have to read books to understand what the fuck is going on in a PC game). I just fear, that we have already seen the most of the prestory for BFA and that Blizzard will use very little time on explaning things for the playerbase.

Real wars have started for grudges and slights, but those things have had a history behind it and a build up. In WoW, the grudges are gone and the slights are held by people who have little power overall. Genn does not command the Alliance and even as Warchief, Sylvanas knows that she needs to be carefull with how she pushes the Horde around. She is accepted, not loved.

[Xorn]

Lets just make a list, shall we?

The Horde backstabed in WotLK at the Wrathgate ordered by Sylvanas, unprovoked.
The Horde went full fledged war against the Alliance by Garrosh attacking Ashenvale and manabombing Theramore in Cata, unprovoked.
The Horde attacked and seized Gilneas in Cata by Sylvanas, unprovoked.
The Horde used Dalaran to attack Darnassus in MoP, yet again unprovoked and backstabbing.
The Horde backstabed the Alliance yet again at the broken Shore, leading to the Death of Varian.

Now the list of what the Alliance did:

Burned down Camp Taurjo.
Layed siege to Orgrimmar und left soon after without occupation, tribute seizing or eben a forced disarmment, or any demand.

Couple points here where you need to fact check:

-Sylvanas had nothing to do with the wrathgate that was a coup trying to kill her led by Putress and Varimathras. There was no backstabbing.
-Theramore was a direct response to Taurjo, so it wasn't "unprovoked."
-No one attacked Darnassus in MoP. They just ported in to steal a bell, that's not an attack.
-Explain how the horde "backstabbed" the alliance at the broken shore?

It seems like you like to throw around words like "backstab" and "attack" without actually knowing what they mean

[Osiria]

I didn't dig nor share Blizzard idea that Horde and Alliance need only a spark to start the war.

Time of racial war ended with WC3 ending, then it was ended once again in MoP showing the ugly face of xenophobia and "no winner" situation.
I thought sane creatures will learn their mistakes and take the peace gladly. Iron Horde once again show how the war is bad.
And on the Broken Shore, the Horde left Alliance alone after their leader was heavily wounded. They had a legit excuse, but they still left Alliance alone. Seeing the orcs and taurens as people of Honor, i bet Baine and Saurfang and their people had some little burden on them after doing this.

I mainly speaking about the Horde, cause it seems they were the first who hit Alliance once again, burning down the Teldrassil.
Dont Blizzard see that given all things i described above most of their main Horde characters won't start the war? Neither Baine, neither Saurfang (dont forget Eitrigg), nor Lor'themar. But it seems they gladly rush in it, like nothing happened before.

I dont know details, of course. But for now it seems that Blizzard simply butcher their story and their characters with this all out Horde vs Alliance war. It looks really noticeable because Blizzard tried too hard to tell us that Horde and Alliance are bloody enemies. They dont explain well WHY.
I believe with good story writing none of Horde leaders would follow Sylvanas (who, again, seems to be the only leader who really seeks vendetta) at worst. They would imprison her or kill at best to prevent of what happened in MoP, previous World Wars and following events of WoD.

If we will took into consideration that it was Alliance who started the war first, then the things would look even worse. None of Alliance leaders except Greymane has the really legit reasons to start the war given all previous events and the fact that its uhm... the war.

Main and first error of anyone complaining about faction conflict is that you seem to think Horde or Alliance are any different from other factions. Conflict between H and A isn't supposed to be different from Horde vs some quiboars or A vs Defias. It's a group that has become a threat and you have to fight it. It's not an "excuse for war", you're assuming people in there have the same world or mindset that you have in real life to claim their characters are being broken to pieces.

I'm not sure about the context for the Horde to attack the Alliance, but these 2 have never been friends. There's a reason why the whole game is separated in 2 factions, for god's sake. They're not allies nor friends. And the Horde isn't composed of civilized people, as some players like to project into their characters, they're the conquering type, violent, that find justification by use of force, survival or gain. And that's not even considering all the bad blood between the 2 factions.

And no legit reasons? Again, what do you think the Horde has been doing against the Alliance so far? Seems people have decided to really throw all the blame in Garrosh and pretend everyone else was nice to each other.

Just one more thing. Legion did a good job to portray a serious threat without getting into faction conflict for the sake of conflict like previous expansions, which made things either look biased or plain dumb. But Battle for Azeroth has no world ending threats, it's all calm now and every group in there isn't really doing anything major to justify a ceasefire. But they still gonna have issues and things that are going to push the war.

Lore-wise it's pretty justified. My problem is burning down Teldrassil, when could've been Stormwind, leading to a retake of Gilneas and Lordaeron. Feels like they just want to punch Night Elves whenever they get the chance.

[anaxie]

let me get this straight.

Horde now controls Kalimdor entirely?

so... Horde have complete uncontested access and surpremecy over the World Tree and the Water beneath it.

The Nightborn and Blood Elves must be SO HAPPY