I don't think people realize how easy the raids will actually be.

[kenoathcarn]

If im going to be honest here current wow is still easier.
Why because the game is 1000 times faster pace in general, classes aren't resource starved and gear so stupidly inflated.
Like if NH normal was naxx40 ToS mythic is Wotlk Naxx25 the saddest part is i'm not even exaggerating.

Can't wait to see all the whining threats in a days time when you remember alliance wont have Blood lust and they'll occasionally get one shot by wind fury enhancement shimmies.

horde doesnt have blood lust either? :/

[Heathy]

Not here to complain, just don't see people playing it for that long.


I don't think most people will be stuck with the MC curse this time for a multitude of reasons as I'm sure many competent people were stuck in MC for various reasons back in classic.

My guild was basically farming molten core for the whole of 2006, in hind sight i think we were mostly doing it for 3 reasons, 1) ppl still wanted t2 legs 2) out of 40 or more molten core clears I never saw a binding drop. 3) ingots for hands of raggy. these things kept us in molten core, we could have maybe started bwl earlier but i started raiding in 2006 and i think even if we magically turned into hardcore daily raiders we still wouldn't have made it to naxx in one year. it'll be nice to have a version of classic that stays in classic, if you can get into an active 40 then this time around most ppl should be able to reach the end. assuming your guild stays active.

probably still be all the tank poaching non-sense going on. that was bad design for blizzard. very anti-community.

[Deleted]

horde doesnt have blood lust either? :/

i'm not even sure. I might be confusing it with wind fury totem.
either way they'll whine about it, isn't that the point of these threads?

[Charge me Doctor]

4 warlocks + 1 spriest is better then 5 warlocks, even if the priest is doing 50% less damage, because he brings shadow weaving (15% shadow dmg) and VE(healers dont need to heal life tapping warlocks), not to mention the ability to fill the role of dispelling.

And he is OOM 2 minutes into the fight. Kek.
No, warlocks are by far the best choice up until mages got their evocation out of talents and buggy ignite rolling kicked in.

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Legion baby tank runs in and pulls 3 packs, cant hold aggro on more than 2 mobs, group dies, 1/2 the group leaves. I expect this theme to start asap.. like wailing caverns soon..

You have to be very special to actually manage to pull 3 packs. They are like 20 yards apart from each other

[Hawg]

If you are only excited about Classic because of Raids, I think you risk being dissapointed.

The raids in vanilla were certainly fun, but that was only one part of the reason the game was so addictive back then. Here are some others:

1) Community mattered - Be a dick in chat, scam people, etc., and you would get black-listed. There was no server transfer, no cross realm instancing, no name-change service, so your reputation (good or bad) was something you had to live with. IMHO this made life on your realm much less anonymous. You would come across people you had once done a 5 man with, and you remembered them, and had shit to talk about. The people hanging out in front of the AH were not anonymous people, they were your community.

2) Guilds mattered - similar to point 1 above, there was very little anonymity, so you had to use basic manners, respect, etc. There was no LFG so guilds were the primary way you put groups together to run group content.

3) 90% of players PVP'd, even on PVE servers - (maybe this was just on my realm?) - It seemed like everyone did battlegrounds. Some of the gear was BiS so even PVE focused people played in AV or WSG or AB. There was no arena. When doing battle grounds you would get to know the names of the enemy players - you knew who to run from - coming across these people in the open world made world combat that much more fun. The "salute" emote was a powerful thing after a well fought battle.

4) You were always poor as shit - it made finally buying that mount a rewarding feeling.

5) You were always grinding something - supplies for AQ gate, mats for professions (because of #4 above you couldn't just buy them off the AH) - rep for the snow tiger mount - trying to get a better ammo bag - trying to get that one item from that one dungon - your weapon skills - your professions - reputations - attunements - etc, etc.

6) Professions mattered - many BiS items were crafted - mats for them required Herculean efforts to obtain and see item 4 above.

7) For hunters, what pet you had made a difference - Broken tooth for attack speed - AV wolfs for run speed -- etc. Your weapon speeds mattered - forget to feed your pet, he would run away - run out of ammo in an instance and you were suddenly a melee hunter, etc.

8) Your epic achievements mattered - When you acquired a great piece of gear/pet/mount you would be noticed infront of the AH, you were not one of many - you were a special snowflake (for a few days) -- you recieved whispers of congratulations and awe -

9) Mounts were class specific - No Night Elfs on Rams.

10) Getting a purple item was a bid deal - Finally getting completely epic in all slots was a moment of godness.

11) You had to use CC - you had to watch threat - wipe-free dungeon runs were things you read about, they didn't happen in reality.

12) Come across a mob 2 levels higher than you? You turned tail and ran, otherwise he would kick your ass.

13) Legendary weapons were legendary. Like 2 people on the server had one.

Of course I am leaving out lots of negatives - it was not all sun and roses - but despite its faults, I think the lack of anonymity and the increased focus on community, plus the fact that you could "win" to an extent (at least temporarily), made the game much more addictive.

Can that experience be re-created by Blizzard? I'm skeptical, but I hope so.

[Charge me Doctor]

ZG actually had allot more good gear then you seem to recall *cough* ZHC

Also you seem to think people will be fully decked out in mc/bwl gear? which just is not the case. gear is a drip feed from 40mans, theres barely any to go around, you wont have 40 people decked in raid gear and this is assuming you don't have to replace people who quit or leave for other guilds.

Well guilds that actually managed to get their fully geared 40 mans are known for snatching players from other guilds. It's good to be on the top of a guild chain.

[Deleted]

just saying this now if raiding is going to be sooooo ez.
why did people still wipe on nostalrius? and give me a real reason other than "they're scrubs" considering this thread is predicated on it being lfr levels of easy.

[kenoathcarn]

Oh, I must have forgotten how PVE only servers were hand given all their raiding mats, and didn't have to farm for it too, you know, the type of servers that more than half of them are, then and now. Forgive me for not knowing that farming and raiding only happened on contested or PVP servers and PVE servers were just entirely bots according to you. Man what ever did those PVE servers and players do when they hit 60 then? Ok, you had fun PVPing on a PVP server or having PVP toggled on while you farmed for your mats. Most servers were not contested/PVP and most people I knew then didn't have whatever experience you're describing either. Nor do many, if anyone, I know have a single fond memory of farming up mats for hours every week just so they could raid that week with everyone else gathering those same nodes and killing those same mobs.

Basically your whole comment makes no sense. You're describing a small fraction of the player base/servers. Being on a server by yourself? I don't even know what that means in context of my comment, let alone Vanilla itself. Who was ever on an empty server back then? Bots? There were bots then, there are bots today. They were on every server too, that's sort of how they functioned. So what's your point? None, that's what I thought.

You sound like someone bitter about the game and confusing basically Vanilla, with every other iteration of it, with most peoples memories, at least that I'm familiar with, of farming back then.

When people look back at Vanilla there are some memories that stand out, Did you play on a pve server during the AQ opening event? are you really going to tell me that you enjoyed this event nearly as much as you would have on a PVP server?

People don't remember the AQ event because they relentlessly grinded the carapaces off the mobs, They remember it cuz it was a clusterfuck of player driven content.

People don't remember South shore/Tarren mill because they enjoyed the quests there=, they remember it because it forced alliance and horde to interact.

small fraction of the player base? are you kidding?, the difference is people were forced to participate and didn't have an opt-out option, All my fondest wow memorys are of the people i played with and/or against, not the pve content or the 'grind'.

[Zaeyla]

They will be easier in many ways for many different reasons, They will generally be harder then most you see on P-servers though most p-servers don't have everything scripted/working 100% and then in addition they are more "faulty" meaning mechanics are mostly guesses/approximation's anyways.

Personally if you want changes to vanilla it should come long after classic servers are officially released/launched and should properly be a separate set of custom realms, if they ever do changes of any kind to the gameplay/balance/experience in any way.

[Heathy]

just saying this now if raiding is going to be sooooo ez.
why did people still wipe on nostalrius? and give me a real reason other than "they're scrubs" considering this thread is predicated on it being lfr levels of easy.

I don't know why ppl wipe on private servers maybe because of lag/dc's/afk's who knows could be a billion different scenarios that ends with wiping a raid.

all i know is that some bosses were extremely easy, even back then they were easy, you know when you had no key binds, shitty addons, the game ran at 10 fps, random ppl would disconnect all through the raid. i've got a screenshot of our first onyxia kill and theres 36 ppl in the raid, only a handful of us had run through zg by that point. so we were killing onyxia on a weekly basis with ppl in dungeon blues, you didn't need a full t1 raid to kill onyxia you could start getting t2 as soon as you could start getting t1.

ony was a loot pináta on par with void reaver. seriously everything upto bwl i would consider to be equal to void reaver. loot pinatas as far as the eye can see.

[Byucknah The Red]

Raiding will be a joke because 1) our current addons are OP AF and are much more advanced than addons used back in Vanilla, so they will carry hard 2) mechanics of raid bosses in Vanilla are a joke compared to current 5 man dungeon bosses

I can debunk that statement with one addon.

Decursive.

Vanilla Decursive was infinately more powerful than modern day decursive. There are a lot of Addons that were far more powerful than what we have today, and there are a lot of addons today that are far more powerful than what there was before. It has been a give and take situation in terms of addons.

[Deleted]

They will be easier in many ways for many different reasons, They will generally be harder then most you see on P-servers though most p-servers don't have everything scripted/working 100% and then in addition they are more "faulty" meaning mechanics are mostly guesses/approximation's anyways.

Personally if you want changes to vanilla it should come long after classic servers are officially released/launched and should properly be a separate set of custom realms, if they ever do changes of any kind to the gameplay/balance/experience in any way.

did you really double up on "many" and provide one example which is only applicable to the level road quality of private servers.

[Alvito]

Because tier gear only supported one spec and it was fixed. If you were a druid, or pally, or priest, your tier gear was for healing and that's it.

What about off set gear? Did not work the same for every class. If you were a Warrior who wanted to DPS, your BIS was a blend of plate, male and leather (because tier was tanking stuff) and you would crush DPS meters. If you were a boomkin... not so much.

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Your vanilla was not my vanilla. Here is an archive of like 350 add-ons from vanilla wow, and this was like just in the 1st few search results http://www.vanilla-addons.com/dls/

I distinctly remember people getting kicked for not running CT Raid Assist, KTM Threat Meter and a DKP add-on in my guild during MC/BWL progression.

Almost all of the add ons people used back then have been baked into the game now. If the Classic servers go live and DBM and Weak Auras work in it then you have no chance in hell at having anything remotely close to the vanilla feel. People asked for vanilla if that is what they really want and not some remastered version or a time machine to step back to vanilla with all the current tools then they need to limit/block add ons. This is a clear you can't have your cake and eat it too moment.

[papajohn4]

Wow all the super skilled current wow players in one thread! I need to bookmark this. Legends are talking here. Brrrrrrr

[Alvito]

I can debunk that statement with one addon.

Decursive.

Vanilla Decursive was infinately more powerful than modern day decursive. There are a lot of Addons that were far more powerful than what we have today, and there are a lot of addons today that are far more powerful than what there was before. It has been a give and take situation in terms of addons.

How do you think decursive got worse over the years? Outside of class/game changes to dispells.

[kenoathcarn]

Almost all of the add ons people used back then have been baked into the game now. If the Classic servers go live and DBM and Weak Auras work in it then you have no chance in hell at having anything remotely close to the vanilla feel. People asked for vanilla if that is what they really want and not some remastered version or a time machine to step back to vanilla with all the current tools then they need to limit/block add ons. This is a clear you can't have your cake and eat it too moment.

What are you talking about, DBM was in vanilla, it came from vanilla..., what are you going to track with WeakAuras thats going to make the game so trivial? your melee swing timer?

The addons like decursive and healbot that existed in vanilla were 10x more broken then anything we have now.

[Cairhiin]

Most of MC was doable with 25 already in vanilla. I did it in my alt guild as raid leader. They had no raiding experience. However, some of the bosses after aren't so easy. I would love to watch a group of 25 new raiders tackle Twin Emps for example.

[Deleted]

When people look back at Vanilla there are some memories that stand out, Did you play on a pve server during the AQ opening event? are you really going to tell me that you enjoyed this event nearly as much as you would have on a PVP server?

People don't remember the AQ event because they relentlessly grinded the carapaces off the mobs, They remember it cuz it was a clusterfuck of player driven content.

People don't remember South shore/Tarren mill because they enjoyed the quests there=, they remember it because it forced alliance and horde to interact.

small fraction of the player base? are you kidding?, the difference is people were forced to participate and didn't have an opt-out option, All my fondest wow memorys are of the people i played with and/or against, not the pve content or the 'grind'.

I think you're wasting time talking about the faction conflict if modern wow has taught me anything, it's that most players want to be playing guild wars 2.
you know the ones that join pvp servers and then add you on battle.net to cry after you start camping them for ganking a alt.
the whole idea of dramatic escalation is dead.

[Alvito]

What are you talking about, DBM was in vanilla, it came from vanilla..., what are you going to track with WeakAuras thats going to make the game so trivial? your melee swing timer?

The addons like decursive and healbot that existed in vanilla were 10x more broken then anything we have now.

DBM then didn't do nearly as much and also was not nearly as well known.

[Charge me Doctor]

How do you think decursive got worse over the years? Outside of class/game changes to dispells.

You can't spam one button for smart dispel raid-wide anymore. Sadface.

Also correct me if i'm wrong, but you could make it work with another scripting addon to make a functional auto-dispel script, that will instantly dispel correct shit as soon as it's applied.