"We want Vanilla" "No wait we want a FIXED Vanilla!"

[Deleted]

WoW 10 postabout fixing vannila vs millions of palyers what want classic to be classic. Those threads cant be taken seriously dude. They are made by minority.

[Ealyssa]

No. This is still the retail ppl vs classic ppl. The idea behind this is still the same. Arguments have just changed

Except the debate has greatly slipped from "Vanilla true god" to "I want a wow tailored to my desire". Which is just impossible.

There can't be multiple vanilla servers and no matter what Blizzard may finally release (don't hold your breath tho, it will actually never happen) people will be disapointed.

They are made by minority.

Vanilla wannabe-players are allready a minority, don't kid yourself into believing something else.

[Trend]

Old school AV in itself will Kill retail. Everyone is clueless.

If you replace "Everyone is" with "I am", then I agree with your last sentence completely.

[Akka]

I think that now that Classic is a reality, people are becoming a bit more realistic and are beginning to see the faults in the Vanilla game, that they would have loved were fixed back in the start. Alot of people want to play Classic, but they also fear that if the same problem filled game is released, they will find it a lackluster project and therefore would prefer if Blizzard would do some changes, so that they can enjoy the essence of Vanilla without all the pain.

No it's not, tens of thousands of people have played on private servers, which are worse than Vanilla ever was, and yet they liked it. It's just a bunch of idiots from retail who can't manage to get that there is a world outside their head and that these people in the world have different tastes than them.

[AzazeltheRuthless]

Really? All I ever hear is how great AV was in Vanilla. That's one of my favorite memories of AV, then again I was on a competitive server. We wouldn't have horrendous ques waiting for Alliance (was a Horde main.)

Battlegroups were introduced in Vanilla, so possibly they implement battlegroups from the beginning, but most people's complaints about battleground were the que times in Vanilla. Specially if your server was dead or one faction dominated.

[Barnfargen]

Which is why I dont understand people who think this game cant survive without QoL changes. The game rose from the grave through private servers and the scene got so big it exploded and look where we are today. Will people play classic WoW as it was in patch 1.12? Uhh obviously, look how much proof we already have.

I'm just reading through this thread and have no opinion on the classic WoW servers. I believe the numbers of people wanting classic servers are large just because Blizzard is taking the time to recreate them but what actual proof exists? I did a quick google search and got this article (https://www.dkpminus.com/blog/estima...ivate-servers/) from last year but it included private servers up to Wrath. Is there a place I could find actual numbers for people that would be playing on a Vanilla only private server?

[God Save The King]

Blasted Lands, Eastern and Western Plaguelands, Azshara, Darkshore, Hillsbrad Foothills (they did completely destroy Southshore), Loch Modan (the dam was destroyed), Silverpine Forest....as just a couple examples of zones that had massive reworks between them.

They completely changed the levelling flow...I don't see how you wouldn't see noticeable difference. Plaguelands were level 60 areas and the whole Naxxramas thing being gone would obviously massively change that area.

Please quote where I said there was no noticeable difference.

What I said is that the core flow, hub, and experience of most of the zones remained more or less the same with a facelift. Yes they changed the order of the zones, and the level, but that was to make a more natural flow across the continents, so you weren't running through death zones to get to the next zone you could do.

I'm not really talking about the big environmental changes that amounted to essentially nothing. Darkshore, as an example, all the quest hubs, caves, paths, etc, were essentially untouched. They just smashed auberdine and added that whirlpool thingy.

Let me try an example. I thought when they did the 1-60 revamp in Cataclysm, that I'd get all new 1-60 content and it'd be totally different. It felt more or less the same, just faster. Most of my memories of quest hubs, layout, location, etc, were all accurate enough to roll through the content with few hiccups. Sure, there were a handful of environmental changes, and a few massive reworks, but I'm talking about the majority of zones.

[clevin]

The people that are clamoring for a changed Vanilla are people who were not on the bandwagon with Legacy. Now that their all powerful god Blizzard has destroyed them, they come clamoring over here to get it changed.

Pro-Legacy Vanilla players want Vanilla, not QoL Vanilla. Might as well play retail at that point.

Bullshit. I didn't want vanilla but I dont care at all. This is all YOUR side coming out with "well, we wanted it but... not X" Those of us who were against the idea were against it precisely because of this whiny bullshit. You all want Classic? You should get classic. Period. Pick a patch, run that, that's what you get.

But all of the 'well I just want THIS change' was utterly predictable. Your side will never be satisfied...

[Laqweeta]

Bullshit. I didn't want vanilla but I dont care at all. This is all YOUR side coming out with "well, we wanted it but... not X" Those of us who were against the idea were against it precisely because of this whiny bullshit. You all want Classic? You should get classic. Period. Pick a patch, run that, that's what you get.

But all of the 'well I just want THIS change' was utterly predictable. Your side will never be satisfied...

And it's the retail side still trying to argue and making these threads.

IF YOU CAN'T BEAT THEM, JOIN THEM.

For the record, I want an untouched Vanilla.

[GorkAndMork]

Really? All I ever hear is how great AV was in Vanilla. That's one of my favorite memories of AV, then again I was on a competitive server. We wouldn't have horrendous ques waiting for Alliance (was a Horde main.)

Battlegroups were introduced in Vanilla, so possibly they implement battlegroups from the beginning, but most people's complaints about battleground were the que times in Vanilla. Specially if your server was dead or one faction dominated.

I don't get why horde player would every queue AV if he doesn't need to grind rep for a weapon. Horde lost almost all of the AVs and this could be remotely fun only for alliance mages or something.

[Doffen]

Hello everyone, I have been playing vanilla since 2006 all the way to the last of wotlk. Since then i played on numerous private servers always either classic tbc or wrath.
But what i mostly enjoyed was Vanilla. Each time I started fresh on a character I imagined his role (pvp or pve) in my mind, I thought hard for his name and envisioned the gear i would get one day. My point is you could say I’m really passionate about every aspect of vanilla. I like it the way it was and I wouldn't have it ANY OTHER WAY.

I love how you don’t have LFG and not even meeting stones and how you have to travel yourself to the instance as approaching every instance conveys much about the experience you are about to have. The first time i approached Black Rock Mountain i was so awed by the architecture, how a city can be carved in a volcano. It made so much sense to then go into that city and find dragons and flames. It all added up in my mind. (On the other hand just teleporting in a bizarre place killing some mobs and porting back to a main city cuts of every immersion aspect) I gladly give the 5 mins it takes to take a flight path to the area and ride to the instance each time.

I love how the epics where indeed "Epic" items and how you needed to really work for each and every one of them. I’m a very strong believer that personal accomplishment comes only through working hard for something; else you don’t give a damn about it. If i could be handed a full geared player in a matter of a week I’d be happy for another week but i wouldn’t mind losing him after. I wouldn’t be proud of him and i wouldn’t be proud of myself for it.

I love how you had to practically visit every zone and do every quest in order to hit level cap. You HAD to explore the game. Every inch of it, in order to get caped. This meant that you had a player base who actually populated the whole map. (Not like now, where 70% of that map is empty and only few endgame zones have player activity)

I love how the community was so tied - had to be so tied - because there was no Lfg and Lfr. you had to join a guild and advance through its ranks and become a useful asset of it in order to join its raids and get a chance at those mouthwatering epic drops. You knew most of the server and it knew you. People where loved hated and feared for who they were.

I loved World bosses!! World bosses where a refreshing event through the endless grind. You would be whacking away at naga in Azshara one day and suddenly a huge raid would develop before your eyes trying to bring a huge dragon. Maybe the other faction would try to disrupt the effort and all hell breaks loose. What a day to have. Soon Global chat would get hot and people would swarm from all over Guilds , pvpers and even some lvl 34 dwarf hunter named "Gilbert"

On to how I would like this upcoming experience to unfold for "WoW Classic" :

• No Graphics changes (personally i wouldn't mind on adding better shading and mood light but the general core graphics need to stay the same for nostalgia purposes)

• No "Balancing" the Classes, Private Servers are proof that people will play all classes at vanilla exactly how they are. Balance would entail this would be a totally different game.

• No changes at the raid numbers. Most people are fond of the 40mans for the awesome experience of having that many players needed to down a boss. Also NOSTALGIA

• No changes in PvP. (I wouldn't mind if they added a skirmish arena option , definitely not rated. but the PvP system needs to reflect the "endless grind" and effort that the rest of the game shows. ) Being High Warlord needs to mean something.

• The whole point of this post is that Except for MINUTE details, the game need to be delivered as it came with the Cd’s!

A true Vanilla-player You sir, seems to be the perfect example of what kind of players Blizzard are making Classic WoW for

And I hope blizz will make it as you suggest, for you and others like you

[Alienshroom]

What player's success is to do with quality of a game? Wat?

Judging by AV argument I guess it's sarcasm? No one liked AV in vanilla and horrible rep grind for mediocre weapons. It couldn't kill WSG and AB in Vanilla let alone whole retail.

You have no insight. The game sucks is your arguement? Well this whole movement and Blizzards response to it shows otherwise but whatever. Delusional and sad : (

I have noticed that every one of your posts completely ignores the fact that there is a difference in player cost between Blizzard's game and the pirate servers. Certainly some are playing on the non-Blizzard servers because they like vanilla so much and they would gladly pay for it. And certainly some are there because they're just cheap and they would rather play retail WoW but not for $15 a month. Nobody knows what the ratio of those two numbers are. Nobody. There is no realistic way to know until their is an official paid vanilla option.

If I had to guess, I would say Blizzard will lose money on this because they're going to have to pay a lot of people who make significant salaries and there will be some significant CapEx to pull this off. I don't think the incremental subscriptions will come close to the player numbers on the pirate servers because I do think a lot of those people are just cheap. Again, no way to know, but that's my guess.

More power to the vanilla crowd though and I hope you largely get what you want. Although I like it better the way it is now, I enjoyed the game quite a lot 13 years ago.

Lol hype alone will make this profitable in the first month subs become available. Lose money? Are you crazy? Do you really think Blizzard has not greatly looked into this? Internal numbers show this is highly profitable move.

[Selah]

But it's not pure then!

I'd be fine with them compromising and making two versions of classic realms. Purist 1.0 that progresses to 1.12, with all the bugs, glitches, crashes, etc. Then a modern classic that includes a lot of more modern QoL changes and features, but retains the classic feel. I have a sneaking suspicion as to which would be more popular.

What's really interesting is that there is a market for a Vanilla WoW experience. But it's exactly that, they want that experience not the story. So embrace it, run with it. Rift is a great example of a game really trying to capitalize on that. So I say, just go ham and do your best to capture that experience but then focus on that and not the story. Let retail focus on the story.

[Akka]

I just find the desire to play a game with worse design being a main draw bizarre.

I agree. I can't understand why people can wish to play the shitfest that is retail when there is perfectly good private vanilla servers available.

[AzazeltheRuthless]

Please quote where I said there was no noticeable difference.

What I said is that the core flow, hub, and experience of most of the zones remained more or less the same with a facelift. Yes they changed the order of the zones, and the level, but that was to make a more natural flow across the continents, so you weren't running through death zones to get to the next zone you could do.

I'm not really talking about the big environmental changes that amounted to essentially nothing. Darkshore, as an example, all the quest hubs, caves, paths, etc, were essentially untouched. They just smashed auberdine and added that whirlpool thingy.

Let me try an example. I thought when they did the 1-60 revamp in Cataclysm, that I'd get all new 1-60 content and it'd be totally different. It felt more or less the same, just faster. Most of my memories of quest hubs, layout, location, etc, were all accurate enough to roll through the content with few hiccups. Sure, there were a handful of environmental changes, and a few massive reworks, but I'm talking about the majority of zones.

They completely changed the flow of quests and you rolled through the content, because that's how Blizzard designed it to be. They got rid of all the quests that sent you from one continent to the other. The massive cross-zone chains (Scepter of Shifting Sands most obvious example.) Some of the stories of the entire zone got altered, Hillsbrad Foothills, Silverpine Forest, Eastern and Western Plaguelands, Blasted Lands all had story reworks. So did Stranglethorn Vale and Barrens (which they split into 2 zones.) Thousand Needles and Feralas also had story reworks for the zone.
Most quest lore was rewritten (though if all you did was skim through to find out what number of x you have to kill, you probably didn't care.) To say the stories weren't massively change is wrong, if all you care about is the objective of the quest, well then yea...there's only so many types of quest they can have you do.

[clevin]

oh come on vanilla haters...arent you bored already??we got our classic servers now so what is your problem?
go play your retail and leave those forums to those who are intrested about classic...you lost the argument about if it will happen so now what are you looking for again???
Just leave and go cry somewhere else

Wow you people are really are conspiracy nuts. These are mostly your people. Now that it's happening, you're seeing the divisions in the pro-legacy camp between the purists and those who want various changes. There were pro-legacy people asking for small changes in the threads about this before Blizzard said Yes. They're just louder now.

[Deleted]

Certainly some are playing on the non-Blizzard servers because they like vanilla so much and they would gladly pay for it.

And certainly there are people who won't touch retail WoW nor private servers, but are more than happy to shell out $15/month for WoW Classic (I'm one of them).

If I had to guess, I would say Blizzard will lose money on this because they're going to have to pay a lot of people who make significant salaries and there will be some significant CapEx to pull this off.

I see no way they will lose money on this in any scenario. There are (tens of?) millions of people who will pay for it, and the cost to develop it is insignificant compared to a new game. They most expensive, and slowest, thing to develop in WoW is the content (art assets), which they won't need to do for Classic WoW. The infrastructure cost to run WoW is completely trivial (so small they don't even list it in their financial statements), and the main thing they need to do for Classic WoW (backend engineering) is the simplest part of the whole system (go look at private server codebases, they are very simple, most of the complexity is in the client).

[namecraft]

finally vanilla server but turns out it's all nostalgiaaaaa

[God Save The King]

They completely changed the flow of quests and you rolled through the content, because that's how Blizzard designed it to be. They got rid of all the quests that sent you from one continent to the other. The massive cross-zone chains (Scepter of Shifting Sands most obvious example.) Some of the stories of the entire zone got altered, Hillsbrad Foothills, Silverpine Forest, Eastern and Western Plaguelands, Blasted Lands all had story reworks. So did Stranglethorn Vale and Barrens (which they split into 2 zones.) Thousand Needles and Feralas also had story reworks for the zone.
Most quest lore was rewritten (though if all you did was skim through to find out what number of x you have to kill, you probably didn't care.) To say the stories weren't massively change is wrong, if all you care about is the objective of the quest, well then yea...there's only so many types of quest they can have you do.

Yes they had some minor changes, and got rid of quests that had you traverse the world for whatever reason. That wasn't the main questing experience.

Story was rewritten yes, but that's lore, not the main questing experience.

The zones still were laid out with the same hubs, and had you go to more or less the same location and kill different mobs. My favorite example is the human starting area in Elwynn, I think all they did was update the mobs and environment. Instead of picking up grapes, you put out fires. Instead of killing that guy in the house, you kill the guy more or less where the house used to be. Still clear out the cave. Etc. Most of the zones I recall leveling through felt like it was the same with environment and story updates, but if you already leveled through the zone, your intuition was the same.

The core of what I'm getting at is you claimed a sense of new exploration for post-cata players. I'd argue that they'll soon realize it's basically the same with some environmental changes, small story changes, and a whole bunch of random nonsense quests that websites tell you to just skip.

[Thunderball]

I dont think they should change anything apart from game systems. Homogenize the engines (just so Blizzard dont have to develop two separate engines) while leaving the same assets so the same looks as close to the original as possible but runs much better on modern hardware. I could stand behind some other engine related fixes implemented: for example creature debuff cap or cast timer clipping - if you remember in Vanilla your effective cast time was actually spell cast time + your latency. They overhauled the system when they implemented GCD reduction from spell haste with BT release, allowing you to 'queue' casts or clip it (starting your next cast/channel before your current was finished on the client).