Question for the Hoard Players....

[Stormwatcher]

When do ppl learn that Alliance killed an wiped the Trolls almost out, and you keep thinking that you are the good guys.

I'm sorry? what are you talking about?

[mickybrighteyes]

only if that were true, you wouldn't see a million post everyday trying to justify everything slyvanas did

There is a post trying to justify her every action for each post denouncing... I think it's more often that we see blatant disregard of everything because the individual is labeled as the villain in a given user's perspective.

Hell we have people still saying that certain events have happened... when they have yet to transpire and only an image has been released. Look at Teldrassil and then try finding it stated that it was burned down by any specific group. (So far it's only been an image shown and someone stated being in the image... waiting on the story to be revealed)

[Stormwatcher]

[QUOTE=Xelium;47939526]I have a few points to make, as an Alliance player:

1. The Orcs came here to save their own people.
2. Hordes are badass not bad.
3. You probably are thinking about Garrosh and The Iron Horde, not our Horde.

And yes, I am sure that I am an Alliance player, I just am trying to thoroughly acknowledge that the Horde is not "The Bad Guys" just really big and ugly (Besides Blood Elf and depending on your opinion the Tauren).


1) the horde did not come here to save themselves, they came to invade another world...
2) that's your opinion. (and that's fine)
3) Yes, those guys were really really bad. but the Orcs and Undead and goblins are all actually evil (the BE are just addicts but not evil, the trolls and Taurens are the only other ones that are by nature not evil)

[mickybrighteyes]

I'm sorry? what are you talking about?

They're referring to how some tribes of trolls have been targeted and wiped out by factions within the Alliance. Trolls as a whole have not been at risk of getting wiped out, but some tribes have... Most of those tribes were relegated to villain status and never really looked at as more than savages in the wilds. The Darkspear was targeted by Kul Tiras forces when they showed up in the echo isles during the founding of Durotar, and that might be the only time a more moderate group of trolls was hunted down that we have been made aware of. Otherwise, we've never really seen much of any troll society beyond religious zealots or vanguard invasion forces.

[Stormwatcher]

This this discussion is hoardly necessary

Just in case you are not a troll and honestly misinformed; lookup the origin of the defias brotherhood

Don't misunderstand me, yes there are members of every race that have done bad things. (That's unavoidable) but FYI the Defias Brotherhood is NOT apart of the Alliance. We go out and hunt them and even put them in jail for their crimes... check, your move.

[Halyon]

Hoarders aren't a faction mate, just saying.

[zlygork]

Don't misunderstand me, yes there are members of every race that have done bad things. (That's unavoidable) but FYI the Defias Brotherhood is NOT apart of the Alliance. We go out and hunt them and even put them in jail for their crimes... check, your move.

No... The Defias Brotherhood was originally the group of stonemasons that rebuilt Stormwind. They were never paid and they revolted, resulting in a stone hitting Anduin's mom in the face and killing her. Next thing you know they are bandits and Stormwind is up in their ass. Notice how Westfall is pretty much the only place on Azeroth where you see poverty. That is largely because the Alliance didn't pay its debt.

[Tanthoris]

WC 1-2 Orcs were bad(mostly), WC3 orcs were misguided, WoW Orcs were simply trying to make a safe place for themselves to live on this new world.
Darkspear Trolls well their probably the only decent troll race we encountered.
Tauren, peaceloving cows who joined the horde because they helped them deal with their Magnatur problems in WC3
Undead, literally left to die to the scourge by the other human factions so they sort of bear a grudge.
Belves, also abandoned by the alliance during WC3 and then later had a human try to wipe out their race by using the survivors as cannon fodder against the undead.
Bilgewater Goblins, caught in the middle of a battle between alliance and horde, get attacked by alliance then joins Thrall.
Huojin Pandas, well honestly they were misled because Ji disagreed with Aysa over their philosophy of inaction is the greatest injustice.

Horde isn't evil, they've just had a handful of bad leaders.
Everyone tends to look over how racist certain alliance leaders are and how they've done things just as bad as some of the horde races.

[Mythabay]

1) the horde did not come here to save themselves, they came to invade another world...
2) that's your opinion. (and that's fine)
3) Yes, those guys were really really bad. but the Orcs and Undead and goblins are all actually evil (the BE are just addicts but not evil, the trolls and Taurens are the only other ones that are by nature not evil)

The Orcs came here to get away from a dead world. And to live they did what they needed to, they were also manipulated by Gul'dan to do so. Hardly, "bad guy" material.

[Scrysis]

So I've been a life long Alliance player. and every time I see someone trying to defend something the Horde did it just makes me scratch my head. like... why? They are clearly the bad guys in this game. why are you trying to defend their actions? why not embrace that they are the bad guys and go with that angle? be Proud that you are the bad guys, don't make excuses. ^_^

I've played both sides, and the Alliance are not necessarily the good guys. It's just that the writing in WoW for quite some time now has kind of made both factions 2-dimensional, and portrayed Alliance as "good" and Horde as "bad".

Examples: Night elves were at war with native trolls for thousands of years.

Alliance quite literally ditched high elves (who later became blood elves) due to racism. (warcraft 3, I can't remember the mission)

Humans just want to chop up the Forsaken, without taking the feelings of the Forsaken into account; they've always wanted Lordaeron, even though that is the legitimate property of the Forsaken. Seriously. You've been murdered, brought back from the dead, used as a tyrant's puppet, and now that you have your free-will back, all of your living relatives want to murder you, again, and take all of your stuff. I'd be kind of bitter too, to be honest.

Rather than educating and integrating the orcish Horde into the population after the first invasions, the humans of the alliance sent them to internment camps and then enslaved them.

Gnomes are just as bad goblins when it comes to natural disasters -- they literally irradiated their capital and made it uninhabitable. Blizzard just likes to emphasize the wanton nature of goblins more, so you see more goblin stuff. Not to mention that they were, as a race, neutral for a very long time first.

Now, I'm not saying the Horde is blameless. I personally wish that the nature-loving Tauren would beat the ever-loving snot out of the goblins for being a walking ecological disaster. Horde is largely the victim of bad situations, bad decisions, and poor leadership. Thrall was a competent leader until he became depressed and left the leadership to Garrosh (Bad decision). He thought he knew Garrosh, but we all see what happened there. Garrosh (bad leader), actually fragmented and turned on his own population by segregating and focusing on an orc-centric horde. Garrosh was deposed. And Vol'jin took his place. Vol'jin was very unfairly murdered before he could do much (bad situation). LOTS of people are a bit bitter about this. Vol'jin probably would have been a rather decent leader. Vol'jin chose Sylvanas to take his place (probably a bad decision). It seems like Blizzard is setting Sylvanas up for a fall. She uses weapons of mass destruction (plague) like Garrosh, and favors the Forsaken significantly above all others (also like Garrosh).

Now, look at the ending of Siege of Orgrimmar from the Horde's standpoint. They straight up invited the Alliance to help deal with a terrible threat and depose of a tyrant. Garrosh was getting outside mystical assistance from the old gods in the form of that heart (yeah, I can't remember the spelling of that guy's name to save my soul), and he was straight up paranoid and insane. So yeah, he kind of had to be taken care of. But at the end of the battle, of which the HORDE HELPED, Jaina wanted to betray the temporary truce and commit regicide. Varian settled with threatening to EXTERMINATE the Horde. Yup. GENOCIDE. There were FIVE other leaders of the various Horde racial groups that could have taken over the Horde while the Orcs were getting their shit back together. And yet the Alliance decided to treat them all like a group of rabid dogs. Talk about judgmental, especially when a significant portion of them actually helped you get that far, showing that they didn't all believe the mindset.

Make no mistake. Alliance are NOT the good guys. It's just been poor writing and/or a lack of Horde characters to make you think that. (Admittedly, I do like Dadgar over Green Jesus.) The writers need to emphasize that with the Alliance, because people are not black and white, and the writing will suffer for trying to force the story in that direction. Even if someone does something that is evil, most of the time, the person doing it is going to have their own rationalizations for doing it.

Right now, we have a Sylvanas-Greymane conflict going. I need someone to fill me in on the reasoning for going after Gilneas since I didn't do that side of the questing, but Greymane has a serious grudge against Sylvanas since his son died saving him from one of her arrows (she didn't deliberately kill the son; she was going after the leader). I *do* know that she wanted to bolster her forces using worgen by stealing the Scythe of Elune (not sure if this is the only reason), due partially to the lack of the ability to procreate. (And I do like Greymane; he makes for an interesting character.) But Anduin has just lost his father. He's young and inexperienced; he should have never been made the leader of the Alliance as a whole. So the Alliance made a bad decision. And now Greymane is influencing him. . . and Greymane has a grudge. So we now have an epic Grudge match going.

[ls-]

WoW's war is a medieval-ish war sprinkled w/ magic. Various types of cleansing, rape and plundering are okay things to do to your enemy. So if orcs decided to kill all nevles in Ashenvale, there'd be nothing wrong from PoV of other Horde members, but Allies wouldn't like it ofc.

If it reduces numbers of your enemies, it's all good.

It works both ways. What's good for Horde is bad for Alliance, and vice versa.

[VyersReaver]

So I've been a life long Horde player. and every time I see someone trying to defend something the Alliance did it just makes me scratch my head. like... why? They are clearly the bad guys in this game. why are you trying to defend their actions? why not embrace that they are the bad guys and go with that angle? be Proud that you are the bad guys, don't make excuses. ^_^

[Oneirophobia]

When do ppl learn that Alliance killed an wiped the Trolls almost out, and you keep thinking that you are the good guys.

The Amani and Gurubashi were the tribes they defended themselves against. They don’t make up even half the global troll population. They’re also unrepentant jerks.

[LoLcano]

Well i have 2 guild bank and 5 bank alt full of stuff so i guess i count myself part of Hoard faction. so whats your question for hoard ppl? how we manage our bag space?

[skitzin]

Well to give a brief overview.

1. Humans put Orcs in concentration camps.
2. Humans abandoned a group of Blood Elves to the Scourge to die.
3. Humans chased away the Forsaken when they tried to contact their families.
4. Dwarves mined in Tauren land without permission.
5. Humans sank a Goblin slave ship killing many innocent Goblins.
6. The Tauren are considered savages by many Humans and Night Elves.
7. Thrall himself was a prisoner for many years in a human concentration camp, despite this he grew to be neutral and did not seek bloodshed between the races - however, he was no fool and (rightfully) distrusted the Alliance after what they did to him.
8. An army of Humans and Dwarves destroyed a peaceful Tauren village in the Barrens and killed every Tauren inhabiting it, even the children.
9. Night Elves and Cenarius try to kill Grom Hellscream and Warsong. Without trying to talk first.
10. Worgen try to invade the territory of the forsaken.
11. Jaina proudmoore purges Dalaran of the Sunreavers.
12. Night Elves loathe Blood Elves as they are an offshoot of High Elves, who seceded from Night Elven society, the Night Elves viewed sedition as an act of treason, and Night Elves never forgive or forget.

Meanwhile the Horde:

1. Hellscream was a tyrant who tried to rule Azeroth, he was a tyrant amongst the Horde and he kidnapped Pandaren cubs to force neutral Pandaren to join the Horde. In the end, both the Alliance and the Horde work together to defeat him.
2. Demon-corrupted Orcs destroyed many Human cities.
3. Orcs killed many Draenei during their bloodlust.
4. The Forsaken invaded Gilneas.
5. Many Goblins are known to be greedy when it comes to money; many would do anything when it comes to wealth, no matter how wicked.
6. Some Blood Elves worked to destroy the Draenei.
7. Horde nuked a city.
8. Hellscream had the Sunreavers steal the Divine Bell, and because Jaina was still traumatized by the destruction of Theramore, completely destroyed Jainna's hope for peace and made her hate the Horde and caused her to purge Dalaran of the Horde influence.

So to be fair both sides have done "evil" things. Of the two I have always felt that the Horde was actually the "good" guys more than the alliance were. That's what made Garrosh so bad was that he was against the grain and force the Horde into conflict.

[ls-]

4. The Forsaken invaded Gilneas.

This one is tricky, from lore perspective it's hard to call it as an act of pure evil because many Lordaeronians died because of Gilneans' decision to shut the gates instead of accepting refugees from the state.

So in the end we had Forsaken, a.k.a. undead Lordaeronians, getting their sweet sweet revenge

[Lochton]

So I've been a life long Alliance player. and every time I see someone trying to defend something the Horde did it just makes me scratch my head. like... why? They are clearly the bad guys in this game. why are you trying to defend their actions? why not embrace that they are the bad guys and go with that angle? be Proud that you are the bad guys, don't make excuses. ^_^

I can't be bothered to find the quote but I am pretty sure it was confirmed that no side was the 'bad guys'. So, please, take a seat on the bench with the rest of us.

Sheeeesh, and here I hoped it was an actual question about hoarding, I have a problem here, you know. You could at least be thoughtful enough to spell 'Horde' instead of 'Hoard', some of us has problems - now have me excused, going to farm a few stacks of materials.

[Xerra]

When will Alliance players admit that Genn commited treason to the king of Stormwind? Anduin spells it out clearly not to engage the horde unless provoked then Genn and the captain of the allaince's flag airship right off the bat attack Sylvannas. Now they had no idea she was going to get a power up there so for all intents and purposes Genn attacked an entire fleet that could have been moving to take actions against the burning legion. A logical standpoint would be his own desire for revenge endangered Azeroth. Heck how many soldiers were killed on both sides because Genn betrayed Anduin?

Next the Night Elves seem to think every tree belongs to them so anytime Orgrimmar peons try to supply lumber for their people they get attacked. It is no wonder they moved to clear cutting the woods they have to work fast and ruthlessly for resources because elves can't negotiate.

The purge in Dalaran was also a pretty shady point, Jaina literally gave the OK to murder any Blood Elf who resisted arrest. Thats some dark actions right there, things could have been sorted and done more civil when evicting the Horde from the city.

There are other minor nit picking things but its getting late for me. The Genn one though really sours my mood, he disobeyed, lost the alliance's greatest airship, got several soldiers killed because he had an axe to grind. I play both factions but regardless of story perspective I wanted Genn to be held accountable.. but no he is in a cut scene as Anduin's right hand lap dog no punishment for his actions like he is some righteous hero. For most points I could defend most of Sylv's/forsakens actions under moral relativism and philosophy.

[Blamblam41]

only if that were true, you wouldn't see a million post everyday trying to justify everything slyvanas did

Zing! And another one for the Sylvanas is shit bucket.

- - - Updated - - -

When will Alliance players admit that Genn commited treason to the king of Stormwind? Anduin spells it out clearly not to engage the horde unless provoked then Genn and the captain of the allaince's flag airship right off the bat attack Sylvannas. Now they had no idea she was going to get a power up there so for all intents and purposes Genn attacked an entire fleet that could have been moving to take actions against the burning legion. A logical standpoint would be his own desire for revenge endangered Azeroth. Heck how many soldiers were killed on both sides because Genn betrayed Anduin?

Next the Night Elves seem to think every tree belongs to them so anytime Orgrimmar peons try to supply lumber for their people they get attacked. It is no wonder they moved to clear cutting the woods they have to work fast and ruthlessly for resources because elves can't negotiate.

The purge in Dalaran was also a pretty shady point, Jaina literally gave the OK to murder any Blood Elf who resisted arrest. Thats some dark actions right there, things could have been sorted and done more civil when evicting the Horde from the city.

There are other minor nit picking things but its getting late for me. The Genn one though really sours my mood, he disobeyed, lost the alliance's greatest airship, got several soldiers killed because he had an axe to grind. I play both factions but regardless of story perspective I wanted Genn to be held accountable.. but no he is in a cut scene as Anduin's right hand lap dog no punishment for his actions like he is some righteous hero. For most points I could defend most of Sylv's/forsakens actions under moral relativism and philosophy.

I'll be honest... Anduin holds about as much power as someone who says they are king of stormwind. The people have him, but militarily? That's all Genn.... Treason or not Anduin needs him, his experience, his connections and his race to forge forward with the Alliance.

Because it... Kind of does? Hate to be a bit nit picky, but before Warcraft 3 (and for the vast majority of the history of Azeroth) the Night Elves owned pretty much everything on Kalimdor and they sort of see themselves as guardians of nature, the wild, the forest and all things green. So yeah, acting like they own every tree probably has something to do with the fact they protect all of nature and live in a giant fucking tree island.

I'd also like to point out that the Alliance's 'aberration' race (worgen) get a moral free pass when it comes to turning and transforming people because they can 'tame the beast', but the Forsaken never really get the same treatment... It's a little weird to me to watch people bend over backwards to justify Sylvanas' behavior, but never, ever bring up the fact that Worgen fundamentally do the same thing when transforming another person.

[Deleted]

I have 2 guild banks on same server to hoard stuff. 2! Both with max guild bank slots, most are full of useless junk.

There are 2 tabs of old gems, 1 tab of fish, fish bait and worms (good ones from garrison), 1 tab of old flasks, 1 tab of level 80 vintage brewfest mugs and lots of other stuff I don't need.