Faction War - Horde never allowed to win.

[Jngizu]

If if that was the case, it just shows that they have no faction loyalty. I certainly wouldn't let them back in if I were in charge. First they were friends of Alliance, then they join the Horde then they want back in the Alliance after they get kicked out? A lot of Alliance people have died because of the Horde and the Blood Elves fought with them.

Not only that but why didn't Void Elves just become another branch of The Horde? Even if they get kicked out of Silvermoon that doesn't explain why they left The Horde. The Trolls left Orgrimmar but stayed in the Horde.

Pretty sure it's because Alleria is still faithful to the Alliance. That being said, it's important to distinguish the decisions made by the Blood Elf council and the netizens. Most Blood Elves had no say in which faction to join.

[Enosh]

did you miss all of cata?

[Deleted]

This time the Horde should win the war and then allow the Alliance to agree to a stalemate. Like in Siege of Orgrimmar.

Just say the Horde, like the Alliance back then would lose too many soldiers blablabla. But this time the Horde ought to have their fist pumping moment.

[madokbro]

did you miss all of cata?

If I'm not mistaken, Alliance won three battles during Cata questing and one in the novel. The Horde just gained Azshara.

[CreatureLives]

Pretty sure it's because Alleria is still faithful to the Alliance. That being said, it's important to distinguish the decisions made by the Blood Elf council and the netizens. Most Blood Elves had no say in which faction to join.

Sure, but they live a similar lifestyle, yknow, their problem with magic. I understand the respect the Alliance has for Alleria so that gets them in the door but what I'm interested in seeing is what happens once they are in there. How their way of life might cause some conflict within the Alliance.

[Thoughtcrime]

Narratively the faction war has been a shit show for both sides since the end of WC2's expansion, so don't feel too hard done by.

[Jngizu]

Sure, but they live a similar lifestyle, yknow, their problem with magic. I understand the respect the Alliance has for Alleria so that gets them in the door but what I'm interested in seeing is what happens once they are in there. How their way of life might cause some conflict within the Alliance.

Especially with the Lightforged Draenei. I hope we get some rivalry there.

[CreatureLives]

Especially with the Lightforged Draenei. I hope we get some rivalry there.

There is that and Night Elves don't really get along with Blood Elves (And Void Elves technically are Blood Elves)

There is also the fact that Jaina and Genn really hate the Horde these days and these people just came from the Horde.

I'm an Alliance guy but I play both and the possibility of some drama within the Alliance actually sounds interesting since we've never really had that before like the Horde has in pretty much every expansion.

[Camthur]

There's a reason the Horde doesn't win in the big picture. They rely on brute force, and wild blitzkreig like attack to win. This works fine in small skirmishes and sneak attacks. Put that up against a full formed, organized army and it doesn't work out so well. I'd say the Horde would need a serious numbers advantage to win a real battle against today's alliance.

It's kinda like back in the day when barbarians took on the Romans. Sure, the Romans lost every now and then, but they generally stomped whatever disorganized rabble that came against them into the ground. (even when massively outnumbered)

[Deleted]

did you miss all of cata?

Cata was the same war we still fought in MoP. They admitted they went overboard with how victorious they showed the Horde at the start of that conflict not being able to give the Alliance due payback. Then went for the whole cycle of revenge nonsense and Orgrimmar/Garrosh raid. Having the Alliance win the conflict because they could go "the Alliance won and is the only mayor power left but wont finish off the Horde, because higher ideals!".

The Horde still gained two zones, with Azshara and Hillsbrad Foothills, which made very little sense back then and was pointed out to be more for leveling reasons than anything. The latter however seems to now be mostly taken back/held by the Alliance again coming next expansion. As they seem to want to give each faction one continent. So the Alliance still technically won that war, they gained Dalaran and were supposedly vastly superior. It was just never shown ingame and Dalaran almost instantly defected once again for Legion and likely wont be back despite the Legion being gone in BfA.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

I like you're thinking. Let's show the alliance a thing or too and put them in slave camps ala durnholde keep instead of the other way around

Never an ideal solution, especially with crooked mis-management, but what was the Alliance to do? They were almost like refuge camps at that point. These beings had shown up in our world, frothing at the mouth, killing and burning a swath across civilization as we knew it. Then the fel was cut off and they went into a daze and we survived. So what to do with these leftovers? We couldn't send them back through the gate; no one wanted to take one home and adopt it. No faction was going to step up and say "They can settle in my back yard." And it's not like we ever invited them to Azeroth to begin with.

[tristannarutofan]

The horde destroyed a whole country, 2 towns, a whole city, and a completely neutral druid grove and the alliance just said "dont do it again" and left. Id call that a win

[The Anax]

According to the populations in the D20 Warcraft game, the Alliance does outnumber the Horde massively. However, when speaking of Lore one must forget "game mechanics" and vice versa (example a Tauren Warrior and a Gnome Warrior cannot and do not equal each other). In the books and what have you, the reason for the stalemate is that while Ally has the superior tech and massive numbers, in reality (so to speak), a two thousand pound Tauren can single handedly kill innumerable men. A troll can get his arms chopped off and come back less than a day later with two new arms. An 800 pound orc can crush a bunch of gnomes- you get the idea. The Horde is all about having might in spirit and flesh, and the Alliance is about using tactics and their minds. Like a Barbarian Army fighting the Roman Empire type thing.

[Moon-Man]

Because we are humans. How often do you see movies where the non humans win against humans? Not many, because we don't like seeing our species fail.

And, because this game was made in 'murica. The US can't lose at war, it would send a bad image.

Correction, America is already in a bad image, being laughed at for having incompetent leaders (such as Clintons, Obama etc), and laughing stock and a disgrace because of what is happening there. Looking at you lefties.

[bufferunderrun]

My problem is not who win but who start, the horde is always the one picked to start a war, was that back in cata and is that now even in legion the broken shore cinematic was made ambiguous to make the horde look like it's betraying the alliance, oh just to be clear even if by the time bfa and the book are released we learn the event are somewhat the result of an external force manipulation that won't change the fact the horde is always picked to be the target of said manipulation.

Why we can't get a plot like onyxia infiltrating SW or Benedictus being the twilight father?

win and loss are impossible in an mmo that much is already set in stone, so what remain and is important is who start.

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Correction, America is already in a bad image, being laughed at for having incompetent leaders (such as Clintons, Obama etc), and laughing stock and a disgrace because of what is happening there. Looking at you lefties.

well blizzard could create Orangemane a failed fat worgen businessman of the alliance who hate everyone, especially dwarf, want to stop the tram, create a wall and that come to power by making speech in various alliance town saying he would make "alliance great again".

[Deleted]

Really. I feel like byALL count the hordes have been allowed to win more then alliance. Look at catalysmen, Hordes all summed up, half of the barrrens. While They Got major control of stonetalon mountain, and now also dominate in ashenvale, clearly the night eleves is loosing that battle.
On eastern kingdom, Hordes fully got and claimed Hillsbrad Foothills fully desytroued southshore, and won the battle of andorhall therefor Westernplague lands.
If we look at MoP, even somehow garrosh had a massiv army of orcs, somehow lore wise it barely made a dent, and at the end, after Destroying Teramore, the hordes got a "be nicer next time" and lost nothing.
WoD Even there the orcs of the iron horde somehow ended up winning" oh wow, we forgive you for gul'dan was more evil, so all the murdering you done before that is less evil, and therefor Forgiven"

[bufferunderrun]

How is that important beyond bitching about it on the forums? Who wins is what matters. There is no equity in winning and trying to force it like they did in MoP where THAT faction war resulted in the Horde 'losing' but still keeping territory it took followed by a harsh finger wagging from Varian. Perhaps with BFA the devs will grow the spine to recognise this in their story telling, especially since they are hellbent on removing a city and an entire bloody zone with a city included in their story. There is no walking away from that. Sacking Undercity is like kicking a dog turd anyway. You won't know the damage was even done. Teldrassil on the other hand is gone for good. Someone needs to lose in this expansions end. And their cities need to be occupied, their leaders need to be imprisoned or executed, their people need to be living under subjugation and whatever remains of their faction needs to be driven underground. I do not care which one it is and the devs need to just go forth and piss off half their fan base.

The territories are technically back to the alliance if we take the expanded lore from books, the problem is that in game they cannot redo entire zones to show it. So when a faction start a war and then it end like a stalemate the story look retarded and will not please anyone, faction wars are stupid and should never ever been made a primary story.
They should have sticked to vanilla scheme were the horde and alliance were in cold war slapping each other over the control of some key zones like warsong gulch, alterac valley etc.

[Belisaurio]

The territories are technically back to the alliance if we take the expanded lore from books, the problem is that in game they cannot redo entire zones to show it. So when a faction start a war and then it end like a stalemate the story look retarded and will not please anyone, faction wars are stupid and should never ever been made a primary story.
They should have sticked to vanilla scheme were the horde and alliance were in cold war slapping each other over the control of some key zones like warsong gulch, alterac valley etc.

People seems to forget that winning doesn't mean exterminate an remove an entire society. ANd we are playing a game, so gameplay remains over lore.