Roy Moore: allegations of sexual misconduct with minors

[Paranoid Android]

@Skroe. Damn you and your essays

Yes, I will agree where it is tribalism. Hurting the other side or people you choose not to agree with is an issue.

The Politico piece is disheartening. Speaking of hurting people I read the article and it made me in turn dislike these people. The reason is they will not change but more importantly their obvious bigotry. So should we try to win these people over. Probably not.

[Spectral]

Bill Clinton had consensual, yet deeply improper (given his position) affairs. He is not a known pedophile. For what it's worth, in my opinion he should have resigned to preserve the integrity of the office.

He had a wide variety of allegations against him that if they'd been lobbed in the current "listen and believe" environment almost certainly would have halted his political rise. It's kind of interesting how that shook out.

Barney Frank is simple, a gay man. He is also not a pedophile. And it's sick you'd imply the two are somehow related.

I respect Frank and am glad he was an American politician, but it's not quite that simple:

In 1985 Frank was still publicly closeted. That year he hired Steve Gobie, a male prostitute, for sex, and they became "more friends than sexual partners."[30] Frank housed Gobie and hired him with personal funds as an aide, housekeeper and driver and paid for his attorney and court-ordered psychiatrist.[30]

In 1987, Frank evicted Gobie after being advised by his landlord that Gobie kept escorting despite the support and was doing so in the residence.[30][31] Later that year, Gobie's friends persuaded him that he had a gay male version of Mayflower Madam, a TV movie about an escort service.[30]

The only thing I think Frank was actually guilty of was being too innocent and looking the other way for a guy he probably felt very strongly about. But... it's not just, "he's a gay guy, move on, no ethical questions".

[Skroe]

I respect Frank and am glad he was an American politician, but it's not quite that simple:

The only thing I think Frank was actually guilty of was being too innocent and looking the other way for a guy he probably felt very strongly about. But... it's not just, "he's a gay guy, move on, no ethical questions".

Forgot about all that stuff. Yeah.

Again, unethical and unwise for a public figure. But not a pedophile.

And yes @Faux-conservatives, using a prostitute is "not as bad" as being a pedophile. Both should be career-ending though.

[downnola]

Not sure if you read the Politico expose on Trump supporters one year later. It's more clear than ever that the diehards essentially have no principles. This is about inflicting pain on their part. A Trump that does nothing is fine by them, because at least it hurts the people/groups (minorities, "liberals", gays, everybody not them, etc) that they blame for their deplorableness. That's not exactly news - we've been talking about them being like that for a year. But it's hardened, not softened.

I'm not so sure if it is party-over-country so much as it is the idea of power over legitimately everything, including their basic sense of right and wrong.

It shouldn't have to be said in 2017, but a man accused of pedophilia, who places the bible above the constitution, has no place in the US Senate. A country of standards would not allow that to happen.

But they'll vote for him because even if true, it'll hurt people they dislike.

This is why, as a conservative, standing with liberals against Trump, and larger, against the un-American depravity of the deplorables has been legitimately the easiest decision of my life. There is no deep inner struggle here. There is no wrestling between my political priorities and beliefs. My parents brought me up right. I have a clear understanding of the difference between right and wrong that supercedes everything else.

Voting just to hurt other people is wrong.
Voting for a sexual predator (Moore, Donald Trump) is wrong.
Campaigns and administrations based wholly on lies is wrong.
Collusion with Russia is wrong.
Corruption is wrong.


Easy to write. Easy to say. Frankly, I think for all the cheap patriotism of people in Alabama who wear American flags like some kind of accessory in a ridiculous club, people in California and people in Virginia have a better sense of patriotism. Even states that went narrowly to Trump like Michigan, that is true. But a state like Alabama? Why has Moore not been thrown from the second story of the statehouse, you supposedly god-fearing moral people?

Because they're a state of amoral, un-American flag wearing hypocrites and bullshit artists. That's why.

Even when Moore gets to the Senate, he'll be on McConnell's "primary this motherfucker" list, and be an outcast forever. McConnell could choose to sit him on no committees if he wanted to.

The joke of it is, under their own belief system, they still lose in the end. Because if you believe this sort of thing, God will know what is in their hearts. So they can either eat crow now and stay home election day (or vote for a conservative Democrat), or pay the piper on Judgement day.

Like there is actually no win condition in this for them.

Anne Applebaum put out a great piece a few days ago that echos this sentiment extremely well. She even gave them the perfect nickname: Neo-Bolsheviks. They may not use the language of Marxian populism, but make no mistake, they want to bring republics everywhere to their knees. You even have some of these creeps, like Bannon for example, who literally call themselves Lennists.

This forum has quite a few of such people. "I'm not a Republican," or "I'm an independent," they say while doing nothing but trashing the left, moderates, and conservatives (or their favorite cliche: " The Neo-Cons"). They're right of course; they're neither left or right. They're members of a new politically neutral ideology: the state isn't perfect and I'm doing bad in life, so bring the whole fucking thing crashing to the ground. They should go by what they actually are instead of claiming to be independent. They're simply Neo-Bolsheviks.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.3c559d06d79a

Donald Trump, Viktor Orban, Nigel Farage, Marine Le Pen and Jaroslaw Kaczynski: although they are often described as “far-right” or “alt-right,” these neo-Bolsheviks have little to do with the right that has been part of Western politics since World War II, and they have no connection to existing conservative parties. In continental Europe, they scorn Christian Democracy, which had its political base in the church and sought to bring morality back to politics after the nightmare of the Second World War. Nor do they have anything to do with Anglo-Saxon conservatism, which promoted free markets, free speech and a Burkean small-c conservatism: skepticism of “progress,” suspicion of radicalism in all its forms, and a belief in the importance of conserving institutions and values. Whether German or Dutch Christian Democrats, British Tories, American Republicans, East European ex-dissidents or French Gaullists, post-war Western conservatives have all been dedicated to representative democracy, religious tolerance, economic integration and the Western alliance.

By contrast, the neo-Bolsheviks of the new right or alt-right do not want to conserve or to preserve what exists. They are not Burkeans but radicals who want to overthrow existing institutions. Instead of the false and misleading vision of the future offered by Lenin and Trotsky, they offer a false and misleading vision of the past. They conjure up worlds made up of ethnically or racially pure nations, old-fashioned factories, traditional male-female hierarchies and impenetrable borders. Their enemies are homosexuals, racial and religious minorities, advocates of human rights, the media, and the courts. They are often not real Christians but rather cynics who use “Christianity” as a tribal identifier, a way of distinguishing themselves from their enemies: they are “Christians” fighting against “Muslims” — or against “liberals” if there are no “Muslims” available.

[Z-Man]

So, republicans are about to elect a pedophile to the senate, that just about sums up how far gone they are.

According to the state auditor, Mary was underage too, so it's all good. (You can't make messiahs if you insist that the vessels be of legal age, I guess.)

[Adam Jensen]

Well that's typical of a religious fundy.

[PACOX]

Quick! How can we make this about Clinton

They elected someone who assaulted the press, I don't know how they can explain away an alleged pedophile.

[DarkTZeratul]

According to the state auditor, Mary was underage too, so it's all good. (You can't make messiahs if you insist that the vessels be of legal age, I guess.)

It was also two thousand years ago when cultural attitudes regarding age were skewed quite a bit lower.

They elected someone who assaulted the press, I don't know how they can explain away an alleged pedophile.

To be fair, that was only two days before the election. Many people had already mailed in their ballots and many people may not have heard about it in time to vote. This is two and a half months out, however.

[Skroe]

Quick! How can we make this about Clinton

They elected someone who assaulted the press, I don't know how they can explain away an alleged pedophile.

*thinks*

Clinton invited Moore to Pingpong Pizza, put heroin from the Clinton Foundation's Afghanistan Heroin Farms on his Meatstraviganza pie, then took him in the basement to meet some middle schoolers she was holding captive. So it was really HER fault. Benghazi.

Yes, that's it! Put me on Hannity! Or have the Director of the CIA interview me! I know things!

[Rasulis]

*thinks*

Clinton invited Moore to Pingpong Pizza, put heroin from the Clinton Foundation's Afghanistan Heroin Farms on his Meatstraviganza pie, then took him in the basement to meet some middle schoolers she was holding captive. So it was really HER fault. Benghazi.

Yes, that's it! Put me on Hannity! Or have the Director of the CIA interview me! I know things!

Sounds plausible.

[Thekri]

"Mary was underage" is the most cringe inducing political defense I have ever heard of. At least Roy Moore himself is adapting the only reasonable defense to this, which is "I didn't do it, they are all liars". That is a pretty good defense, because it is very unlikely there is any actual evidence, so he isn't likely to face legal challenges, so he can ride that forever, after all Trump did the same thing.

I obviously don't know if he is guilty, I suspect he is, because it fits with the loudly overblown hypocritical image he has crafted on himself, but it is very unlikely anything can be proved. He is completely unfit for office either way, you can find a few thousand reasons why he shouldn't serve without this.

If you aren't sure if my last paragraph was about Roy Moore or Trump... the answer is Yes.

[alexw]

*thinks*

Clinton invited Moore to Pingpong Pizza, put heroin from the Clinton Foundation's Afghanistan Heroin Farms on his Meatstraviganza pie, then took him in the basement to meet some middle schoolers she was holding captive. So it was really HER fault. Benghazi.

Yes, that's it! Put me on Hannity! Or have the Director of the CIA interview me! I know things!

I would love for someone to post that on the_donald and then see if they actually run with it.

[Travis B]

Are we seeing any polling post-accusation yet?

Not yet, but seeing as how it's Alabama, I wouldn't be surprised if he gets a bump in the polls from this news.

[Draco-Onis]

Not yet, but seeing as how it's Alabama, I wouldn't be surprised if he gets a bump in the polls from this news.

I am just going to enjoy watching republicans defend their new pedophile homophobic racist and all around evil senator from Alabama when he talks to the press. I can already see the blood drain out of turtle face McConnell being asked questions about him.

[Rasulis]

Just as an aside, Leigh Corfman (Moore's accuser) is registered Republican, and voted Republican in the last 3 presidential elections.

[Skroe]

@the Faux-Conservatives here.


Actual Conservatives think you're fucking retarded.

(Bruce Bartlett served in Reagan and Bush Administrations, is a Republican and is being sarcastic here).

[Wyrt]

I'm not surprised at all given how much of a piece of shit this guy is.

[Milchshake]

Spook? 10char

Ya I couldn't figure out if they mean in the CIA deep-state way .... or the racist meaning. With the paranoid style of Breitbart writing it could be both.

[Adam Jensen]

Come on guys, give him a break. It's fine. I mean, Joseph fucked Mary when she was 14 and that gave the world Jesus Christ!

-Actual defensive argument made by an actual Alabama Republican.

[Merkava]

Anthony Weiner's infidelities earned him ostracization by his party. Late his pedophilia earned him a prison sentence.
.

When the Anthony Weiner story broke, I remember thinking that it was uniquely a problem with the Democratic Party. I remember thinking that if Weiner resigned, it would be because Democratic leadership had finally had enough. That they didn't want to try and go into election season answering questions about Weiner's behavior. I was of the opinion, as a conservative, that I would like to see Weiner stick around, stripped of committee assignments and cash, and ostracized from his own caucus and maybe even try and seek reelection. Whats the best way, in your opinion, for this Roy Moore thing to play out? How can it hurt Bannon and the Trumpkins the most? Have Moore stick around and lose the election? Win and then have to resign in disgrace? If he quits now, can Republicans replace him?

Edit - I just realized that the election is on Dec 12. I didn't realize it was that close. Republicans options to replace him appear to be pretty limited.