You really thought you do, but you really don't.

[Seramore]

you think you do, but you don't.

e d g y

also

self admittedly says he started in BC, yet makes a brave statement about classic

very interesting friends

[Deleted]

You do understand that the people who campaigned and begged Blizzard to bring back vanilla WoW may not necessarily be the same people who are now asking for these QoL changes? Unless you can find specific examples of people who are doing just that.

Lots of people played Nostalrius (I did a little bit, but I only got to level 14 or so because I was afraid it'd be shut down and my fear was accurate) and were very happy there. Those people will not want vanilla WoW to be different from how it was.

Many other people who didn't play on servers like Nostalrius but who may want classic WoW back will fall into both camps. Some will want the genuine article, some will want a modified version with QoL changes and all the other new stuff.

I am assuming (and hoping) that Blizzard will be bringing out vanilla as it was back then. Not some modified version of it. Nobody is gonna be forced to play it. It should be optional, for players who want it. Simple as that.

[AeneasBK]

One group wants no changes whatsoever.
Another group wants no changes but updated graphics and character models.
A third group wants lots of QoL changes.
etc

I think the more derpy thing about this whole repetetive argument is that people shouldn't have to preface any comments with "And if I don't get my way I won't play it" or "But I'll play it as it was even with the issues it had" but by the looks of things it might help clear things up for the "Someone suggested a change, looks like you don't want Vanilla afterall" fools.

[Akani]

So people are still arguing about this after one side already won. Neat.

On-topic: There's no need to tell people what they do or don't want. They say they want classic, so here it comes. Congrats on getting what you wanted. Have fun "progressing" on one-mechanic bosses I cleared as a keyboard-turning 12-year-old. And when other people tell you that beating a game on its easiest setting 12 years after it was released isn't impressive or hard, you look them in the eye and tell them that walking to portals and gathering mats is just as hard as ToS Mythic.

Besides, 12 years of incresed player skill, guides, highspeed internet, bug fixes, server improvements, sim, and community resources like Discord don't give any advantage at all, so your achievement is just as valid as mine.

/thread

[hulkgor]

The plurality if not the majority want unaltered (as closely as possible) Classic.

Go away.

This entirely.

The people that have been crying for a classic official server for nearly a decade, and actually got Blizzard to go along with it, don't want those shitty improvements on QOL, don't want class balance, don't want anything added.

We just want classic, warts and all.

So even if some vocal dudes are spewing bullshit, and a couple of band-wagoners decided to disrupt the classic-movement, that's not what WE (as a classic community) want.

So, going along with your topic, "you really thought you're being smart, but you really aren't".

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Have fun "progressing" on one-mechanic bosses I cleared as a keyboard-turning 12-year-old.

We will, thanks!

Did you manage to clear Naxxramas as a keyboard turning 12 year old?

[Akani]

@hulkgor Nope. My guild transferred from Medivh to Thrall when we were progressing on Horsemen. We didn't have the tanks so they went to go get some on a different server. How about you, how far did you get into Naxx40?

[Deficineiron]

This entirely.

The people that have been crying for a classic official server for nearly a decade, and actually got Blizzard to go along with it, don't want those shitty improvements on QOL, don't want class balance, don't want anything added.

We just want classic, warts and all.

this is pretty much the case with me. I can make arguments for a few changes, but well do I understand how the slippery slope applies to everyone, not just me. i would be thrilled with ANYTHING 2.2 or earlier in game-state, as far as classic content goes (classic was pretty much left alone in BC until 2.3's changes).

that said, blizzard is going to make some changes, and it will be interesting to see how they manage to avoid (or embrace) the slippery slope.

[Baracuda]

So people are still arguing about this after one side already won. Neat.

On-topic: There's no need to tell people what they do or don't want. They say they want classic, so here it comes. Congrats on getting what you wanted. Have fun "progressing" on one-mechanic bosses I cleared as a keyboard-turning 12-year-old. And when other people tell you that beating a game on its easiest setting 12 years after it was released isn't impressive or hard, you look them in the eye and tell them that walking to portals and gathering mats is just as hard as ToS Mythic.

Besides, 12 years of incresed player skill, guides, highspeed internet, bug fixes, server improvements, sim, and community resources like Discord don't give any advantage at all, so your achievement is just as valid as mine.

/thread

Which side won?

[Blamblam41]

Guess you need to a) take another sweep on this part of the forum and read all the comments from people that want no changes and then b) realize that there are different kinds of groups and subgroups.

One group wants no changes whatsoever.
Another group wants no changes but updated graphics and character models.
A third group wants lots of QoL changes.
etc

Yeah. Unfortunately all of those groups are going to get disappointed when they are all catered to. Either it's going to be pure, 100% vanilla as to where the rose tinted goggles can finally fade or it's going to be 99% vanilla and 1% modern features and every vanilla purist is going to light it on fire for not being 100% vanilla.

Blizzard is going to lose the purist crowd no matter what they do, so they are going to appeal to the largest, broadest audience possible because at the end of the day this is a company. They are looking for this project to be profitable, period.

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this is pretty much the case with me. I can make arguments for a few changes, but well do I understand how the slippery slope applies to everyone, not just me. i would be thrilled with ANYTHING 2.2 or earlier in game-state, as far as classic content goes (classic was pretty much left alone in BC until 2.3's changes).

that said, blizzard is going to make some changes, and it will be interesting to see how they manage to avoid (or embrace) the slippery slope.

Slippery slope fallacies are psychologically invalid.

And you're forgetting at the end of the day Blizzard will make the changes that appeal to the targeted audience. That targeted audience is also going to rely on community feedback so you're going to get a lot of people wanting modern features as requests, constantly.

Fundamentally they are going to have to appeal to as many as possible. I get it you guys want vanilla, but when you asked Blizzard the question "can we please have vanilla servers" did you honestly think the djinn wouldn't give you a monkey's paw?

[Deficineiron]

Yeah. Unfortunately all of those groups are going to get disappointed when they are all catered to. Either it's going to be pure, 100% vanilla as to where the rose tinted goggles can finally fade or it's going to be 99% vanilla and 1% modern features and every vanilla purist is going to light it on fire for not being 100% vanilla.

Blizzard is going to lose the purist crowd no matter what they do, so they are going to appeal to the largest, broadest audience possible because at the end of the day this is a company. They are looking for this project to be profitable, period.

- - - Updated - - -



Slippery slope fallacies are psychologically invalid.

And you're forgetting at the end of the day Blizzard will make the changes that appeal to the targeted audience. That targeted audience is also going to rely on community feedback so you're going to get a lot of people wanting modern features as requests, constantly.

Fundamentally they are going to have to appeal to as many as possible. I get it you guys want vanilla, but when you asked Blizzard the question "can we please have vanilla servers" did you honestly think the djinn wouldn't give you a monkey's paw?

well no, at the individual level slippery slope is fine for a forum thread. I am consistent in saying blizzard is going to see things differently.

My major concern is that their target market estimation is essentially going to say make a classic map with retail tuning, hand-holding, time-investment expectations, etc. I find it unlikely today's A/B is going to release a game tuned the way classic was. I am certain that market research will suggest ways to 'improve' it for a modern audience, and in a bad scenario it will be tuned like 3.0 in terms of player power vs classic zones, with all kinds of short-cut/time-savers built in.

[HuxNeva]

Hi peeps,

I never was in the vanilla movement for these last 2 years simply because I never played Vanilla, I started mid-TBC, but I gotta say, I was cheering and admiring all the people that were so vocal and passionate about a game that released ~13 years ago and wanted to relive that experience once again. I was reading forums and video comments all over the internet how these people wanted vanilla, because they hate how the modern wow has become "easy" with all the QoL changes and modern graphics and models etc...

When I watched the Blizzcon Opening Ceremony on twitch, and Brack announced that WoW Classic is on it's way, you have no idea about the WIIIDE smile that formed on my face. Even though I will never go on the vanilla server to even try it out (hell, I wouldn't even go back to TBC servers if they made one, even though all of my most precious memories of WoW are there, i just know that it'll never be the same as back then when, I prefer going forward), I was super excited and happy that all the vocal and passionate people finally got their precious Vanilla.
Now that people are actually getting their vanilla servers, I started visiting forums and discussions, excited to see (I'm happy when I see other people happy) how people rejoice in happiness and satisfaction because their voices have been heard. And boy oh boy, what do I get to see. Hundreds upon hundreds of topics and comments and videos of people requesting and demanding changes and tweaks to their so beloved and perfect Vanilla WoW. I thought you loved every single aspect about Vanilla, including the bad graphics, the imbalances, the bugs etc., what happened now so suddenly? The Vanilla community has been totally ripped to different factions, 5% of those are people who actually want to play Vanilla, then there are those who think they want to play vanilla but with some little modifications and tweaks and those who outright ask for some gamebreaking changes. Granted, there are a lot of trolls among the ones who want some game breaking changes, but they are easy to distinguish, so I can safely say that not all of them are trolls. Once you apply ANY change, no matter how minor it seems to be, it's no longer the game you want to play (didn't say vanilla, because it applies to any game). So what happened, vanilla community? Why the sudden change of heart/opinion?

Well, considering all the various change requests I've seen for the last few days, I guess the guy, who's been mocked and hated and made fun of for what he said these past couple of years was right, after all.

You think you do, but you don't.

You are implying there was just one type of legacy-proponent. I reality, most are united in their love of the old game-style, but there are many different persona in the movement. I've taken a first stab at mapping them out to help understand the debates.