Lets Refocus the Debate.

[Flarelaine]

There is not much discussion, outside those who think their opinion can sway Classic.

J. Allen Brack:
"I think there will be a lot of tourists" "But it doesn’t matter what I think because once we’re committed to doing this at a Blizzard level, which we are, whatever happens is going to happen. If millions of people show up and play for years, that’s awesome. And if just tens of people show up and play for years, we’re fine either way. What’s important to us is that we have this Classic experience people can enjoy, that people do have the opportunity to go back to. This is an important game in videogame history and there’s not a way to go back and experience that today. This is also about preserving something that we think is really important."
src:
http://www.pcgamer.com/this-is-how-b...a-wow-servers/

See the part about preservation? You think they will take advice from some retail zombies? Retail people play whatever is given to them, like Blizzard's personal pets. Blizzard knows this, and this do not intend to change Vanilla / Classic. Or did Brack lie? Mmm hmm...

They should have your face in the dictionary next to "pretentious".

As it happens, Blizzard is sustained by their own retail players, not those who wander from pirate server to pirate server after each C&D. And they are a company, so profits come first.

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"You were never the targeted audience for this.
The majority of the targeted audience is already unsubbed.
The legacy community despises everything you're asking for.

You want QoLs? Play Legion.
You want new race models? Play Legion.
You want transmog? Play Legion.
You want updated graphics? Guess what? Play Legion.

You already ruined live WoW for the old school player base.
Don't ruin WoW Classic for us."

I'll never stop quoting this on any thread stupid enough to propose changes to the classic realms. Besides as previously said, Blizzard themselves don't care if 10 thousand or 10 million play on classic realms, it's about preserving what vanilla was.

Do you actually have an argument as to why we should accept you as self-appointed gatekeeper of a product you do not own?

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There is no debate to be had and I can't even begin fathom how some people are being so wilfully stupid.

Classic realms are what vanilla was back in the day.

What I cannot fathom is how some people can be so arrogant. You want to shut down the debate? Good luck with that.

And stating Classic realms are what Vanilla was is, well, objectively false as there are no Classic realms in the present tense. Classic realms will be whatever Blizzard makes them. I think they asked for feedback.

[Srg56]

What are changes that the team can make to the game that are acceptable?

Bug fixes, changes to the mailing system/auction house involving the amount of items you can place at one time. I believe that if anyone wants more than this, they're not actually interested in playing vanilla and are just there to be a tourist. They don't actually want to get their shoes dirty, they just want a protective bubble through which they can take selfies with the reservation beasts.

I can't escape the feeling that a lot of the aforementioned tourists that now are suddenly interested in a classic server were part of the crowd that treated with unbelievable derision the "nostalgia" group for years upon years in the past. And now that vanilla servers are a reality, or soon to be one, they're shapeshifting and re-branding before our eyes into amicable arbiters of debate that just want to help, you see.

You wouldn't actually want to play vanilla do you? Wouldn't there be changes that would improve the experience?!? Why, not all classes were viable! That surely must be changed! Why, THAT thing wasn't quite good now was it? Why, THIS thing was less than stellar right? Wouldn't you want to make the game experience more inclusive for people who cannot and have no interest in playing beyond a few hours once in a blue moon?!?

I have a few questions: Do you have no shame? Are there limits to your entitlement? Rhetorical questions, aren't they?

[Dergiab]

TBCs LFG tool were great but Classic had 2 addons that basically did the same; Call to Arms and oQueue (I tgink they were called).

[Lyvefire]

Bug fixes and new models should literally be it. Maybe consider taking the balance changes from the burning crusades pre-patch later on if the lack of every spec being viable becomes problematic but that should absolutely be added later if it is to be considered and never anything more. The game should be as pure as possible to begin with.

[Perkunas]

If you are talking about their PvE performance, then those are contradictory.

It's kind of like "I want to eat more pizzas, but not any extra calories".

I don't agree with you in most cases but you're spot on. If you tinker with balance raids would have to be adjusted. So would itemization because what's the point. One change goes hand in hand with the other.

[Snowfunk]

Why do you deflect my arguments, hard to refute them I suppose?

How does any of that counter my argument? The Vanilla experienced is defined by community, progress, grind etc., not by specifics. It does't matter if a shadow priest is 1/3 as strong as a mage, or 1/2 as strong as a mage. You still stay true to the vanilla experience.

What people who fought for vanilla realms want differs. I don't want an exact replica of 2004 wow, and I've fought for legacy servers, which makes your argument disproven. We don't all want the same thing.

Like wut? You really are just a troll. Because there's no way anyone can seriously be this dumb.

[Aldarana]

Bug fixes, changes to the mailing system/auction house involving the amount of items you can place at one time.

Why are these changes okay in your opinion? I'm sure I can find several people on this forum that would roast you alive and call you a Vanilla hater who doesn't really want Vanilla for suggesting that the mailing system and auction house be changed. Changing something like that could easily have an effect on the way people interact with the Vanilla economy. With that change more people might be willing to go into gold making because it's less of hassle to use the important gold making tools. You would almost certainly see an increase in the amount of mail sent and auctions posted, those things would have some kind of affect on the game.

I can't escape the feeling that a lot of the aforementioned tourists that now are suddenly interested in a classic server were part of the crowd that treated with unbelievable derision the "nostalgia" group for years upon years in the past. And now that vanilla servers are a reality, or soon to be one, they're shapeshifting and re-branding before our eyes into amicable arbiters of debate that just want to help, you see.

There are certainly trolls out there but the majority of people who are talking about Classic right now just want to enjoy the game. They want to enjoy it in a different way than you do sure, but that doesn't mean its all a scheme to prevent you from ever getting what you want. Treating every person with a different opinion than yours as a troll won't convince any of them that a more faithful recreation of Vanilla is better.

[Wiedzemir]

I think a fair compromise for hybrid classes only is to make respecs 1/4th the cost of other classes so they can actually farm or do quests like all the other dps classes in the game do and do it infinitely more effectively.

Nonsense. Hybrid class is trade off. You can fill multiple roles but there is a price for it. DPS have no this luxury, once DPS, always DPS. If you don't like a trade of like this, don't play a hybrid class, that's simple. Otherwise it severely favors hybrids, basically like nowadays. It's much more favorable to be a hybrid class than a pure DPS.

[Alienshroom]

This thread should be renamed "Why is Thrall not in Mario Kart"

From the front page:

"These servers have full commitment now and will not be ditched if they are not popular."

"The experience will be as identical to Vanilla WoW as possible, but they are not sure at which point in the patch life cycle of the original game it will take place."

People talking about changes have no idea what the purpose of this project even is.

Stop living in delusion retail people.

[shaunika123]

anything that's not fixable with addons, should not be implemented.

[Ferocity]

I wanted to add huge point against Battle.net integration: you can make an alt and play incognito and not be bothered with whispers on "want to tank this" or "want to heal that" or various chit chat in general.

I heard that Blizzard makes invisible mode for B.net, but still it requires installing their app and remember to switch invis on/off (also I wonder how will it work when you log on your main toon - will its name be shown as pseudonym in violet letters as in Everquest II?), also it is yet work in progress.

[Zandalarian Paladin]

Fair change? I don’t see many. The goal is to have a pristine experience. If we want that, the only acceptable choice is the knowledge that some balance and tweaks will inevitably come. Changes to systems, however, doesn’t have their place there.

[Notorious]

I'd be fine with bug fixes, anything else, just no. People commenting on transmog, mounts, new models, balance changes, no to all these, thank you very much.

[RobertMugabe]

There's no point in upadting graphics or whatever for example. A good chunk of the community is strictly against it and overall most people won't be even using them.

Furthemore, updating graphics will only delay the actual release more, make the actual game files A LOT bigger and can potentially cause bugs etc.

That being said, I don't think that most people (which are only a few anyways) who demand transmog, LFR etc. aren't actually serious, but are rather trolling and trying to prove the point that people don't actually want vanilla (if you look at the post history at some, they were indeed being against legacy servers in the past)

[Daffan]

Are you deliberately being obtuse? I honestly can't tell if you're trolling me or honestly this stupid.

The updated character models that were introduced after vanilla. Don't belong. In a project that aims to exactly recreate the vanilla experience.

After campaigning for so many years to get legacy realms and after finally succeeding, it's so fatiguing to now have to fight these morons who don't understand people who fought for this don't want any changes to legacy realms.

Nah. Most people (like myself) campaigned for Legacy simply because it was the easiest thing to get back to old style WoW without writing a design manifesto nobody would ever implement nor read - It's a much better starting point. I'd take Vanilla++ any day.

Are you gonna cry when it's patch 1.12.1 and everyone is doing Naxx in 3 months because OP talents and Bloodvine? Or what?

[Alydael]

If you are talking about their PvE performance, then those are contradictory.

It's kind of like "I want to eat more pizzas, but not any extra calories".

I don't see how making bears and pally tanks as viable as warriors would make the challenge any less. It would just offer you a different choice.

Also, some of the old specs were just so broken that basically nobody played them at all. So, in a way, they were a "non factor" in vanilla. They did not and or take away from the challenge in any way.

If they drop Vanilla as it was (same graphics, same bad balancing), people will play it for a month and then the vast majority would just quit. You would be left with a few players. It will be really hard to form any groups, raids or build a community that way.

[ReVnX]

Nothing besides bug fixes

[Deleted]

I think that they should add Vanilla. I have played Vanilla, but I wouldn't mind bringing more more Vanilla with Vanilla ice cream. So yeah, just Vanilla for me. I don't care about other changes.

[Zenfoldor]

Necessary imo:
Exploit fixes
High rez/framerate options
Chat /whisper ability with B.net

wishlist:
Draw distance(which would not affect pop in distance for other players in world pvp)

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Blizzard lets you buy gold in retail to combat black market gold sellers. Black market gold sellers will either have a resurgence in classic wow or Blizzard will offer tokens for vanilla. Which is your preference?

[Blamblam41]

There is not much discussion, outside those who think their opinion can sway Classic.

J. Allen Brack:
"I think there will be a lot of tourists" "But it doesn’t matter what I think because once we’re committed to doing this at a Blizzard level, which we are, whatever happens is going to happen. If millions of people show up and play for years, that’s awesome. And if just tens of people show up and play for years, we’re fine either way. What’s important to us is that we have this Classic experience people can enjoy, that people do have the opportunity to go back to. This is an important game in videogame history and there’s not a way to go back and experience that today. This is also about preserving something that we think is really important."
src:
http://www.pcgamer.com/this-is-how-b...a-wow-servers/

See the part about preservation? You think they will take advice from some retail zombies? Retail people play whatever is given to them, like Blizzard's personal pets. Blizzard knows this, and this do not intend to change Vanilla / Classic. Or did Brack lie? Mmm hmm...

Allen Brack is also a Blizzard front man who cares more about product expansion than about any legitimate preservation.

People are just fucking ridiculous. Either they want a completely modernized vanilla or they want a completely honorable vanilla and neither are going to be acceptable for the audiences they want to attract.