Capitalism will also cause bread lines but those will be permanent

[igualitarist]

Fun fact: Those who defend socialism/communism are those who live in capitalist countries.

[Osmeric]

Could OP tell me how extinction of bees will affect the production of bread? Wheat is not pollinated by insects. Indeed, only very few crop plants require honeybee pollination, and we could easily live without any of them.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/kaz-v...1447302312854/

[Daelak]

so... why do socialists think capitalism is bad? I mean... so far it seems like EVERY SINGLE TIME socialism takes a major hold in a country, it takes an almost immediate downturn that takes decades to return to being even a shadow of what it was before socialism happened.

Capitalism: Yeah it sucks pretty hard if you're poor.
Socialism: Yeah it sucks pretty hard if you're alive.

All developed nations have large mixed economies. It shouldn't be surprising to anyone that government spending also has an ROI that is more far reaching and more lucrative than any private spending/investment.

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Fun fact: Those who defend socialism/communism are those who live in capitalist countries.

No developed country is capitalist. In the US for example, we would be more along the lines of a corporatist capitalization system, because we subsidize the liability and cost of private industry by picking up the tab for their incomplete cost accounting of their products and services.

[Forogil]

1> Class struggles result in the effective enslavement of those classes without power, by those which have power, and thus should be counteracted where possible. The creation of the Party and its supporters, in the USSR, was an effective recreation of exactly this kind of class struggle, and thus against principle.

So, why didn't Marx, that had claimed that all of history was the history of class struggle, foresee this and try to guard against it?

Especially when he could look back at previous violent revolutions and see that they often just replaced one set of bad rulers by another (which indicates that there is a lot more to history than class struggle); a problem that continues to exist in many countries.

[igualitarist]

All developed nations have large mixed economies. It shouldn't be surprising to anyone that government spending also has an ROI that is more far reaching and more lucrative than any private spending/investment.

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No developed country is capitalist. In the US for example, we would be more along the lines of a corporatist capitalization system, because we subsidize the liability and cost of private industry by picking up the tab for their incomplete cost accounting of their products and services.

You have a binary vision on the world. Just because a country does not take an economic system to its absolute level, does not mean this economic system isn't the dominant.

Capitalism is dominant in every single developed country.

[Daelak]

You have a binary vision on the world. Just because a country does not take an economic system to its absolute level, does not mean this economic system isn't the dominant.

Capitalism is dominant in every single developed country.

It isn't binary, it's reality. We in the US, since other developed nations have already started to fully account for the private companies true cost of their goods and services, subsidize the actions and environmental cost private business does, which makes an incomplete picture of what the product or service actually cost on the market, which means that it isn't a free nor pure market, but rather a system that supports private interests at the expense of society. It's the reason why oil and its associated byproducts like plastic is so cheap, they lobby to ensure they don't have to bear the full cost of their products.

[Osmeric]

It's the reason why oil and its associated byproducts like plastic is so cheap, they lobby to ensure they don't have to bear the full cost of their products.

Plastic is mostly produced from natural gas, not oil. Cheap frac gas with ample ethane is why plastic production has been moving back to the US.

BTW, I'm pretty sure adding the current market value of CO2 allowances (from the EU, where it's less than 8 euros/tonne) to the cost of making plastic would not significantly change its price.

[Daelak]

Plastic is mostly produced from natural gas, not oil. Cheap frac gas with ample ethane is why plastic production has been moving back to the US.

BTW, I'm pretty sure adding the current market value of CO2 allowances (from the EU, where it's less than 8 euros/tonne) to the cost of making plastic would not significantly change its price.

Natural gas resides in the same cavities where liquid hydrocarbons are.

Good, I wonder if that also accounts for the climate change mitigation strategies EU and US will have to employ in the coming decades? Hopefully that addition takes into account past emissions too, since they still are in the ocean and the atmosphere.

[Deleted]

Capitalism is great.
It gave me the opportunity to fully develop myself and branch out into different business possibilites and reap the rewards.

Seeing that most people have no clue how to build a life or career these days, I guess it's logical that some might not like it and rather go for some free handout system.

[Osmeric]

Natural gas resides in the same cavities where liquid hydrocarbons are.

Some does, but there's a great deal that's not associated with petroleum. Much the frac gas in the US (particularly in the northeast) is of this kind.

[Allybeboba]

You already benefit from socialistic advocacy many decades before you were born. You can see the failure of whatever form of capitalism we have in the US in many sectors of the economy, with private companies dumping their liability on society to pick up the tab.

Like the fall of WWII Germany? They were socialists weren’t they?

[Bajat]

Exctinction of bees :


Productivity vs wage ratio :


Climate change :


Please explain to me how free market is any good for the goddamn world considering it is a system that relies on infinite growth in a planet with finite ressources.

As of [this day] the Planet Lives on Ecological Credit

People doing rolling coal and climate change deniers should have been put in jail a long time ago.

Capitalism is A GOOD THING.

Good people being good; useless people being useless.

[Osmeric]

[Ghostpanther]

Could OP tell me how extinction of bees will affect the production of bread? Wheat is not pollinated by insects. Indeed, only very few crop plants require honeybee pollination, and we could easily live without any of them.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/kaz-v...1447302312854/

There are a lot of fruits and such which are pollinated by bees. For one, cows eat Alfalfa hay and Red Clover hay. Would not be any food like that for the cows if all the bees died. And if we feed cows only corn, guess what will happen to your milk and beef prices. :P. Bees are a very important part of our world. The decline in them however, has improved the last few years, so lets hope it continues. We do not want a world with no bees.

That being said, Capitalism is far superior to socialism. I was born into a very poor family in the US, but due to some sacrifices and hard work, dedication, I went from rags to a relatively comfortable life, which to most other humans around the globe, would be considered a rich one.

[Explicit Teemo Nudes]

Not exactly what you're trying to prove here with bee deaths, wages, and global warming. This looks like an utter garbage attempt to try and look smart while you provided logistically no proof.

Capitalism isn't the cause of bee death. That is poor air quality and pesticides on plants/flowers.
Capitalism isn't the cause of poor air quality; that is pollution and lack of care in eco-friendly waste removal/recycling.

Hell, even capitalism doesn't have a direct impact on wages earned per productivity. That's just businesses deciding their own model. Whether that graph is the closest to any merit is beyond me.

Capitalism pushes the boundaries of what toxic products are ok to use in all parts of agriculture and the industry.
This leads to more damage on the environment.
It also pushes the boundaries of work ethics and how much shit workers need to put up with or else they'll get kicked out.
When everyone is just thinking of themselves, society will go downhill.

[Osmeric]

There are a lot of fruits and such which are pollinated by bees. For one, cows eat Alfalfa hay and Red Clover hay. Would not be any food like that for the cows if all the bees died.

But those are not dependent on honeybees. There are many other kinds of bees, and many are native to North America, as honeybees are not.

[Masark]

There are many other kinds of bees, and many are native to North America, as honeybees are not.

And many of those other kinds of bees are also being pushed to the brink by the same causes that are decimating honeybees.

[Nalorakk]

Not exactly what you're trying to prove here with bee deaths, wages, and global warming. This looks like an utter garbage attempt to try and look smart while you provided logistically no proof.

Capitalism isn't the cause of bee death. That is poor air quality and pesticides on plants/flowers.
Capitalism isn't the cause of poor air quality; that is pollution and lack of care in eco-friendly waste removal/recycling.

Hell, even capitalism doesn't have a direct impact on wages earned per productivity. That's just businesses deciding their own model. Whether that graph is the closest to any merit is beyond me.

Capitalism is the reason for poor air quality and pesticide on plants/flowers. (Also the real reason is actually parasites that have grown increasingly productive because of capitalist-driven industries segregating and creating incredibly dense bee populations).

Capitalism IS the cause of poor air quality because it has created a system which encouraged people to pollute and not care about eco-friendly waste removal as it's the best way to generate $$$$ and get ahead.

Businesses are using capitalism to be exploitative.

Neoliberalism, look it up.

[d00mGuArD]

Capitalism is the reason for poor air quality and pesticide on plants/flowers.

Well of course. In a non-capitalist country, people won't have money for cars, no money to buy pesticide, no money to use anything air-poluting really.
Not to mention everyone will instantly leave that country
So yeah, the air will be cleaner

[Eazy]

"My shitty ideology killed 100 million, caused and still causes hunger, environmantal disasters and technological decline; but yours is worse. Or will be. Some day. I swear."

This should be wikipedia note for the word Communism.