What I see on this forum scares me...reflections from a 1%er

[Deleted]

If the Classic servers lasts indefinitely, then you have as much time as you want to clear a raid. You could run MC once a month if people in your guild agree to do so.

Not feeling compelled to do every lockout on every raid, because you are not in a race, would lessen the impact of many of the grinding issues related to raiding.

Just spend the effort to find and get into a guild with a good social atmosphere. You may never see the inside of Naxx, but who cares if you are having fun?

[bash the fash]

PvP... with what gear? The good PvP gear takes a loooong time to grind, by that point you'll most likely be sick of PvPing in general. You'll get pulverized the moment raiders start getting their gear. I doubt it will be much fun then. Like someone mentioned, the old Roguecraft videos aren't really an accurate representation of day-to-day PvP as a rogue.



BRD, Stratholme, Scholomance, Dire Maul and L/UBRS. That's it for casual PvE content at max level unless I'm forgetting some high level dungeons. Sure, you can PUG some of the easier raids, like MC or ZG, too. Half a year after the good guilds. I doubt a PUG can kill Majordomo, though. Where are people seeing this "huge amount of content" in vanilla? Especially compared to retail. Grinding reputations?

You're forgetting the 'high-level solo content' in Silithus that consisted of grinding mobs for summoning items.. to summon bosses that required 5-20 people, for subpar rewards. That nobody did after the initial patch surge.

Casual content though!

[Kaleredar]

I think a big part of why Blizzard finally decided to do this was because Nostalrius became so successful, thereby disproving the "rose-tinted glasses" myth perpetuated by the OP. I played on Nostalrius myself, it was a great and fun adventure.

It was also free

And you're assuming that some of the more asinine aspects won't be "remastered", such as spawn rates, etc.

But that's not vanilla!

Some people call not being able to multi-spec "asinine." Some people call not having mounts and toys in their own tab "asinine." Some people call not being able to transmog "asinine." Some people call having to buy ammo for hunters "asinine."

Where does what qualifies as "asinine" differ from what made vanilla "vanilla?" You can't have it both ways.

[Deleted]

You're forgetting the 'high-level solo content' in Silithus that consisted of grinding mobs for summoning items.. to summon bosses that required 5-20 people, for subpar rewards. That nobody did after the initial patch surge.

Casual content though!

Ah, those. Right... You can get a couple of epic items for your trouble and Earthstrike was a nice trinket for physical DPS. You can't get those without a raid group, though, like you said And, yeah, it pretty much died after everyone at the beginning got their items.

[Armourboy]

and the most important one. Are you willing to play the same bullshit OVER AND OVER without ever getting new content ?

As opposed to live where you get " new " content but it's mostly just new world quests and a new currency to grind for catch up gear?

I still play live and enjoy it, but lets not act like most of what is added in new content patches isn't exactly the same thing you were doing just in a different zone and with a different currency.

[Deleted]

I very much doubt they'll freeze the vanilla servers on Naxx forever. Very few people are going to find that appealing. They are either going to progress the servers throughout the expansions, opening new ones in their place or give you the option to copy your character to a TBC realm after some time in vanilla.

[king ogre]

1. Yes.

2. Yes.

3. I wouldn't be doing that, but yes.

4. Doesn't seem like a bad trade if it takes more than 2 hours to farm 1 flask of titans, otherwise that instance is probably an outlier in your experiences and if i were to help people do something like that it would on average take less time thus making it worth it.

5. I've done it before fuck em.

6. Same as 5, questioner seems to have morales for some strange reason.

7. The question can be restated to "are you willing to be a part of or deal with inevitable drama that would happen in a 40 man raiding guild?" my answer would be that its expected.

8. This question is also the same as the last as it probably references a time in the past this guy has gotten screwed over. This can be restated as "are you willing to deal with ninja looters?" its rare that these cases happen, but like any negative, people tend to remember those instances much better than the other times. To answer the question, yes.

9. People quitting the guild for one reason or another is bound to happen. Does that justify itself? No. Its part of the game, from an officer or GM perspective, to understand their members real life situations and interactions with other members. you do your best to make sure people are happy enough, or at least not angry enough to leave the guild.

10. This question in itself is flawed. If the "main tank" in my guild would suddenly stop raiding for whatever reason, the main off tank would probably have to step up to take over. While probably not having as much gear as the main tank, the main off tank would probably just be missing a few key pieces that he would be next in line for anyway. When the question asks "2-3 weeks of molten core" there are some things wrong with that quote. Depending on the current raid releases and how many weeks the guild has been raiding, there could be significantly different time periods to get the next in line up to par, if they aren't already capable of doing it with their current gear already.

11. No, there is obviously a problem incentivising your guild to show for off-nights/farm raids. Even if you don't want to incentivise your guild to do these things, the solution is simply recruiting more people to fill your raid so the veterans who need the good loot, like the trinkets, can still get it and the at same time you're gearing up and training potentially good raiders/needed classes for your main raid group. One thing to keep in mind is that you'll need a different raid comp for different bosses, especially in AQ40 and Naxx.

12. This question is basically the same as the last. You'll have to incentivise your veteran raiders to help out. For example, having people that enjoy raiding with each other help you out or have certain loot decisions go towards players who do a lot of these guild activities. Creating an environment where people enjoy raiding for one reason or another is probably the best way to incentivise your veterans to help in ZG/AQ20, MC, and BWL.

13. This would actually go back to question 9. Figuring out what the goals of your raiders are is vital to the success of the guild. If I figure that a person, or group of players, are raiding only to get gear to PvP that's perfectly OK. At that time i'll talk to them and ask them if they'd be interested in raiding with us in later content releases after they get their gear, and at the same time, figure out ways in which they would be less vital to our success such as only giving them the PvP gear they need and already having replacements lined up. I can then give the PvE gear that would normally go to them to people who are more interested in raiding.

14. Don't be a fucking racist dumb-ass in public, maybe if you had a bit of maturity you would care enough to know not to do that.

15. "30-40" hour per week is exaggerated. You can do that, at the same time you probably don't have to. Personally that isn't a problem for me because i'm still young enough to have that kind of time without too much obligation in other aspects of my life. So the more time i'd spend managing my guild/leveling an alt/progressing my character/PvPing/raiding/helping others, and so many other things contributes to my personal success and would make me happy.

16. I have made sacrifices in my life to be more successful in game. Do I regret doing that? Yes, I do. Have I matured enough to not make all the same mistakes in the future? I hope so.

[Mormolyce]

5. Are you willing to royally screw other people out of loot so that it goes to your own guild during a PUG even if you know it's wrong?
6. Are you willing to set that PUG up in advance knowing you will screw people?
7. Are you willing to sit through and watch IRL drama such as your GM who is married having an affair with a fellow officer?
8. Are you going to be okay with some Australian narcissistic kid ninjaing all the loot on your first Ouro kill and then insta gquit?
9. Are you going to stay firm when you witness over half of the loot handed out in your guild exit your guild before you even get the shot at it?
11. Are you going to keep your mouth shut when only 30 people show up for BWL farm night?
12. Are you going to stay in the group when the GM decides to do a ZG run to gear up new players?
13. Are you going to be okay when 3 of your members decide to stop raiding once they get the gear they need to PvP?
14. Oh shit, you accidentally made a racially charged statement in general chat - you just got blacklisted from two of the top guilds.

I uh, feel like some of these might be something that happened personally.

But in general, I mean guild drama was by no means a Vanilla thing. Some of the other points seem fair though.

[alabaster jones]

I don't even know where to start. I have yet to see an accurate account of what end game vanilla was really like on these boards and how atrocious it really was. I hate to make another topic saying, "you think you do, but you don't", but it's really freaking true. Do you really want to see Naxx? Answer this set of questions. If you can get by them all, I could definitely brain storm another dozen to see if you could pass the second test.

1. Can you spend your entire day Tuesday farming 2 spawn points in Blasted Lands and 4 spawn points in Felwood for Gromsblood?
2. Do you have time to level an alt high enough to camp those spawn points?
3. Do you have 2-3 days a week available to stay up till 3 AM doing Strat live runs for crusader orbs or farming Hearthglen?
4. Are you willing to go back to wipe on Rag for two hours to help some scrub guild get the kill in exchange for a flask of the titans?
5. Are you willing to royally screw other people out of loot so that it goes to your own guild during a PUG even if you know it's wrong?
6. Are you willing to set that PUG up in advance knowing you will screw people?
7. Are you willing to sit through and watch IRL drama such as your GM who is married having an affair with a fellow officer?
8. Are you going to be okay with some Australian narcissistic kid ninjaing all the loot on your first Ouro kill and then insta gquit?
9. Are you going to stay firm when you witness over half of the loot handed out in your guild exit your guild before you even get the shot at it?
10. Are you going to have the fortitude when your main tank quits to go back and gear a tank in molten core for 2-3 weeks?
11. Are you going to keep your mouth shut when only 30 people show up for BWL farm night?
12. Are you going to stay in the group when the GM decides to do a ZG run to gear up new players?
13. Are you going to be okay when 3 of your members decide to stop raiding once they get the gear they need to PvP?
14. Oh shit, you accidentally made a racially charged statement in general chat - you just got blacklisted from two of the top guilds.
15. Do you have a solid 30-40 hours per week to devote to an MMORPG?
16. Are you willing to sacrifice everything in your life to see some pixels on a screen, hear some random guys scream, bitch and moan? That includes sacrificing performance at work, time with family, socializing, and even taking vacations are out the window.

You get my point....vanilla is savage - a viscous cycle. That 40 man model was broken. If you joined after TBC, you have no idea how brutal it was. It was like a cut throat job with everything you hate about your job now present. You all better pray that they make some quality of life changes. If not, the server will be a ghost town 6 months in. Not my thoughts, just reality.

Sincerely,
Mesaba, level 60 rogue from Garithos (Blackrock migration server)

I raided vanilla until I burned out on 4Hmen like so many others, and I have absolutely no idea how you ended up in most of the scenarios you describe... I'll try and quickly answer those 16 questions.

1. Farm something (mara, dire maul, this goes doubly on pvp servers) and just buy the mats and consumables you need from AH.
2. See 1.
3. See 1.
4. See 1.
5. I don't need to screw randoms in pugs out of blue drops, no.
6. See 5, why are you so set on screwing pugs out of blue drops in the first place? What is wrong with you?
7. No, my first levelling guild had that happen, all the competent/reasonable/normal players splintered off and made our own guild.
8. No, that's why you always use master looter.
9. The two loot systems I saw were DKP and loot council, speaking as somebody who was an officer and a regular raider under both systems, both were fair and any grievances were usually only coming from impatient people looking to gear up and gquit, but you can smell those people coming a mile away, and they never pass the trial period.
10. We ran a roster with rotating benched people, downside is sometimes people don't like to sit out, but on a hardcore schedule most people appreciate a break now and then anyway. The upside is you never have to deal with a critical player shortage.
11. See 10.
12. See 10.
13. See 10.
14. This is almost signature-worthy, accidental racist, hilarious.
15. You casual :P ...Nah I won't be hardcore again, I have no regrets about the time I spent in vanilla the first time, but I just wouldn't have the stamina these days.
16. See 15.

[Marakesh]

BRD, Stratholme, Scholomance, Dire Maul and L/UBRS. That's it for casual PvE content at max level unless I'm forgetting some high level dungeons. Sure, you can PUG some of the easier raids, like MC or ZG, too. Half a year after the good guilds. I doubt a PUG can kill Majordomo, though. Where are people seeing this "huge amount of content" in vanilla? Especially compared to retail. Grinding reputations?

Compare the time it took to hit max level to later expansions? Or getting a mount, or tier .5, or completing end game questlines for attunements or keys. More importantly, that there is some challenge, made these things far less tedious. There is no comparison between post and pre cata WoW.

Honestly, how do you even ask this? I get it, people are internet angry that classic WoW is a thing now. Not sure, I understand why you think it is such a threat, but hey it will pass.

[Brubear]

Blizz already said it doesn't matter how many people will play, if its 10k or 10 million, atleast these people can play the version they want to play.

Because, once it's launched, all they have to worry about are people to keep it running. There won't be a development team, since they won't be adding new content to it. This also means that they won't need as big of a debugging processes since their biggest source of problems will be hardware related (does it run on X gpu? does it support Y resolution?), so once it's ready it's basically free revenue, especially if they charge for it somehow.

Man, wouldn't that be a kicker, if access to classic servers either had a purchase price or a sub fee.

[Jacob6875]

Most of your points happen in every single raiding guild in WoW whether in classic or Legion. Sometimes people don't show up, sometimes people cause drama, sometimes geared people leave, sometimes you have to gear people up in lower raids etc.

Honestly classic WoW doesn't take much more time per week than Legion. Once the leveling and gearing from 5 mans is done you can basically only log on for raids and be fine if you want to.

[Raugnaut]

You really should have stopped at the first point, OR continued in the same vein.

Every other single point simply says that you stuck with a complete shit guild in Vanilla, and its just a rant thread.

[Mormolyce]

Oh god... I just remembered how the old raid lockout system worked.

That was my second most hated thing in the game when I first started playing in Wrath. After character-specific achievements.

[Fudal]

I don't even know where to start. I have yet to see an accurate account of what end game vanilla was really like on these boards and how atrocious it really was. I hate to make another topic saying, "you think you do, but you don't", but it's really freaking true. Do you really want to see Naxx? Answer this set of questions. If you can get by them all, I could definitely brain storm another dozen to see if you could pass the second test.

1. Can you spend your entire day Tuesday farming 2 spawn points in Blasted Lands and 4 spawn points in Felwood for Gromsblood?
2. Do you have time to level an alt high enough to camp those spawn points?
3. Do you have 2-3 days a week available to stay up till 3 AM doing Strat live runs for crusader orbs or farming Hearthglen?
4. Are you willing to go back to wipe on Rag for two hours to help some scrub guild get the kill in exchange for a flask of the titans?
5. Are you willing to royally screw other people out of loot so that it goes to your own guild during a PUG even if you know it's wrong?
6. Are you willing to set that PUG up in advance knowing you will screw people?
7. Are you willing to sit through and watch IRL drama such as your GM who is married having an affair with a fellow officer?
8. Are you going to be okay with some Australian narcissistic kid ninjaing all the loot on your first Ouro kill and then insta gquit?
9. Are you going to stay firm when you witness over half of the loot handed out in your guild exit your guild before you even get the shot at it?
10. Are you going to have the fortitude when your main tank quits to go back and gear a tank in molten core for 2-3 weeks?
11. Are you going to keep your mouth shut when only 30 people show up for BWL farm night?
12. Are you going to stay in the group when the GM decides to do a ZG run to gear up new players?
13. Are you going to be okay when 3 of your members decide to stop raiding once they get the gear they need to PvP?
14. Oh shit, you accidentally made a racially charged statement in general chat - you just got blacklisted from two of the top guilds.
15. Do you have a solid 30-40 hours per week to devote to an MMORPG?
16. Are you willing to sacrifice everything in your life to see some pixels on a screen, hear some random guys scream, bitch and moan? That includes sacrificing performance at work, time with family, socializing, and even taking vacations are out the window.

You get my point....vanilla is savage - a viscous cycle. That 40 man model was broken. If you joined after TBC, you have no idea how brutal it was. It was like a cut throat job with everything you hate about your job now present. You all better pray that they make some quality of life changes. If not, the server will be a ghost town 6 months in. Not my thoughts, just reality.

Sincerely,
Mesaba, level 60 rogue from Garithos (Blackrock migration server)

Question about #7; Does he post video of said affair.? And is she hot?

[Surfd]

You're forgetting the 'high-level solo content' in Silithus that consisted of grinding mobs for summoning items.. to summon bosses that required 5-20 people, for subpar rewards. That nobody did after the initial patch surge.

Casual content though!

Assuming that content makes it in for the "classic" server launch. Remember, up until the patch that added AQ, silithus was literally an unfinished zone. There was like maybe less than a dozen quests total that involved the place (most of which were someone from another zone sending you there to kill something specific and come back) and pretty much half the mobs didn't even have loot tables.

And lets be honest, if they start the classic server with the late patches already live, it will be a much, MUCH different experience than playing a real vanilla progressive server.

[Polygons]

It's Blizzard, none of their b.net games are dead. Diablo III is shit and it's still not dead.

[Vaelorian]

I played Vanilla at a "hardcore" level, ultimately clearing 50% Naxx before TBC came. Raided 5 nights a week

1. Can you spend your entire day Tuesday farming 2 spawn points in Blasted Lands and 4 spawn points in Felwood for Gromsblood?

What? Why? I just required manapots as a healer. Sure I had elixirs and ultimately a flask too, scrolls etc. I just sold everything I had while grinding for righteous orbs. AH was your friend.

2. Do you have time to level an alt high enough to camp those spawn points?

I was a holy paladin... sure I needed to grind mobs or go dungeoneering and selling enchanting materials.

3. Do you have 2-3 days a week available to stay up till 3 AM doing Strat live runs for crusader orbs or farming Hearthglen?

no need - just required during the weekend to play as much as possible

4. Are you willing to go back to wipe on Rag for two hours to help some scrub guild get the kill in exchange for a flask of the titans?

Why? Dude wiping for 2 hours = a huge repairbill. Still yes a flask would be more on AH. But seriously... grinding for 2 hours could be more profitable then going at it at ragnaros. Ofcourse if you do not wipe for 2 hours... then yes. This was not a thing in Vanilla but an exception and only at the end of Vanilla.

5. Are you willing to royally screw other people out of loot so that it goes to your own guild during a PUG even if you know it's wrong?

Totally not required. Why pug when you have a solid raidgroup yourself? But if required... yes?

6. Are you willing to set that PUG up in advance knowing you will screw people?

Not required. But if required... yes?

7. Are you willing to sit through and watch IRL drama such as your GM who is married having an affair with a fellow officer?

This hasn't changed during the entire life span of WoW

8. Are you going to be okay with some Australian narcissistic kid ninjaing all the loot on your first Ouro kill and then insta gquit?

The chances of this happening... is like almost 0.

9. Are you going to stay firm when you witness over half of the loot handed out in your guild exit your guild before you even get the shot at it?

Like it is now?

10. Are you going to have the fortitude when your main tank quits to go back and gear a tank in molten core for 2-3 weeks?

Like it is now?

11. Are you going to keep your mouth shut when only 30 people show up for BWL farm night?

Like it is now? Just a lower number?

12. Are you going to stay in the group when the GM decides to do a ZG run to gear up new players?

Dude... what about being a teamplayer as a guild requires? I am glad that you are not in my guild right now.

13. Are you going to be okay when 3 of your members decide to stop raiding once they get the gear they need to PvP?

I sense a bad recruitment officer.

14. Oh shit, you accidentally made a racially charged statement in general chat - you just got blacklisted from two of the top guilds.

Hell yes, bring that shit back.

15. Do you have a solid 30-40 hours per week to devote to an MMORPG?

Like now?

16. Are you willing to sacrifice everything in your life to see some pixels on a screen, hear some random guys scream, bitch and moan? That includes sacrificing performance at work, time with family, socializing, and even taking vacations are out the window.

Yes this was true for me. There was one thing in my life at the time and that was WoW.

[Dergiab]

It was also free

Lots of other PS were also free AND were on newer xpacs. How come they weren't as popular? The quality were also the same and sometimes better, especially when it comes to PS doing WotLK.

[Deleted]

Compare the time it took to hit max level to later expansions? Or getting a mount, or tier .5, or completing end game questlines for attunements or keys. More importantly, that there is some challenge, made these things far less tedious. There is no comparison between post and pre cata WoW.

Honestly, how do you even ask this? I get it, people are internet angry that classic WoW is a thing now. Not sure, I understand why you think it is such a threat, but hey it will pass.

If you play your cards right you can have the gold for an epic mount before you hit 60. Is that what people want, though? The only content being farming? Leveling is farming in a way, although yes, it's much better than retail, even if the majority of quests are grindy. You can farm as much as you want in retail as well, the ridiculous artifact grind is open to you in all its glory. The challenge is also greatly exaggerated, it's not some masochist's dream, although I wish it was. You are still going through the motions on every mob, the difference is that you can't AoE mow down hordes of enemies, just mages can do that. I don't hate the thought of vanilla servers, if you read my other posts in this thread you'll see that I'm happy they are implementing them. I'm just saying that people have a lot of illusory hopes for it. Vanilla is not what people have mythologized it over the years, it's very far from that, just not in the way people think.