[SPECULATION] Queen Azshara of Zin'Azshara, the first ever mutated Zandalari Troll?

[vertigo12]

PRECAUTION

Let me revise this section of my article. This topic is EXTREMELY, I repeat, extremely investigatory, critically analytical and is highly speculative in nature.If you can't keep up with such. Better stay away from this topic now. I suggest before engaging yourself in the on going discussion, carefuly read and fully understand the initial post. Please bring something up which is relevant to the topic. There have been several responses which are identical so if you share such view, you may silently affirm. Better yet bring it up in a different manner. This thread has reached more than 10 pages and near 20 pages with 40k views! Thank you for continuously keeping up with this thread's ongoing discussion and update. Please be patient enough to follow through the lengthy discussion if you truly wish to participate.

Spoiler: 

RATIONALE
With World of Warcraft: Battle for Azeroth announcement and unveiling during the past held 2018 Blizzcon and the ongoing Alpha and future Beta testing, one of the many things which make THIS GAME interesting are the multitude of quests and immersive storylines it has to offer like always game developers keep on introducing and have been doing since Vanilla even pre-dating back to their RTS roots.

Apart from Well of Eternity dungeon of Cataclysm, it was hinted that Queen Azshara will make an appearance in a possible future and take center stage of BfA's storyline with the release of the said expaction and with the unveiling of one of the allied races of the latest Horde under the title as Warchief of the Banshee Queen Sylvanas Windrunner, they are tasked to seek the aid from one the oldest sapient races in Azeroth, the Zandalari Troll.

With King Rastakhan's introduction as well as the introduction of Suramar elves,the Shal'dorei Nightborne, could BfA possibly show the public the story behind the mystery of Elven lineage with the Trolls? Queen Azshara is the ruler of the ever first Elven Kingdom so she definitely have answers to who truly the elven race are. Will King Rastakhan also give further details about it? Is Queen Azshara the first mutated Troll along with the dark trolls who have migrated near the sundered Well of Eternity now left and known as Maelstrom and what lies beneath, Naz'jatar?

Comment below!


This topic is heavily influenced by interwoven topics. There is so much to consider and the intricacies might be overwhelming.
Night Elven History with regards to their initial advancement, Dark Troll Influence and Origins, The Well of Eternity, Dark Troll and Zandalar/Empire of Zul correlation, The War of the Ancient, Azshara and her biography, and so much more.

I'm done with you f*ckin' Chronicles b*llcrap:

I. Dark Genesis: The Dark Troll Origins

It has been hinted that before the Night Elves, Kal'dorei, came to be they originally were Dark Trolls. They are a tribe of Trolls and part of the Zandalari Empire however due to their inherent nature of being isolationist and reclusive, they have not participated in the decisive war that would completely wipeout the Trollkind of Trolls vs. Aqirs. Perhaps it was their destinity that they remain as such thus ushering the fateful event of them soon to be discovering the Well of Eternity - a pool of Azeroth's blood which seems never to becoming scar-like.This was a reminder of Aman'thul's force which rip out an old god name Y'shaarj.

Naga:Oh no, not again!

- This topic or discussion is not about what happened to Queen Azshara after the Great Sundering. Yes, she along with the Highborne loyalists did became Nagas. End of discussion and topic.
#2 God-King Popo's post 2017-11-17, 08:55 AM
#3 mcey's correction 2017-11-17, 09:08 AM
#4 my reply #161 Aftemathhqt's post

A reign before Zin'Ashari: Glory to Azshara

- A presumed queen before her reign. This is still debatable and under heavy discussion as no record of any prominent names exist. There are no surviving statues of the previous Night Elven leaders apart from her's.
#64 EbonBehelit's response
#12 Derpkitteh's response 017-11-17, 10:11 AM
#18 Derpkitteh's post
Ethenil's post
#80 Kenji87's post

Chronicles Volume 1: A Concrete and Valid Source and Evidence?
Although a lot of participants continue to cite Chronicles as valid reference, it offers incomplete details to form the entire picture with regards to Azshara. #29 Destina's reply

II. A Machination and Fruition of Old God's Plan

Somehow the old gods are always ahead of the game. The reclusive Dark Trolls were absent during the all out war by the unified Troll Empire of Zul and yet at that suspiciously time frame, The Dark Trolls were drawn to the scar of Azeroth - The Well of Eternity: The exact place were Y'Shaarj was plucked out. Could the Night Elves be the vendetta planned by the old gods against the Troll? #67

Unveil her True Identity
#5 Aeula's post 2017-11-17, 09:11 AM
#79, 81 Haedies's post
#80 Polybius's post
#120 Powerogue's post

Well of Eternity: The non-crystaline phase of Azerite?
#113

Credits here!

[Merryck]

Queen azshara was a night elf mutated into a naga.

[mcey]

Queen azshara was a night elf mutated into a naga.

I think he's referring to the discussion of the potential shared origins of the elves and trolls, way before "recorded" history or sundering.

[vertigo12]

Queen azshara was a night elf mutated into a naga.

Yes, you are also correct with what you stated. What I mean is before they became the infamous Nagas, brought by a pact of darkness between Queen Azshara and the old gods bestowing a gift to her in exchange for her loyalty;her last resort in keeping them alive from the great calamity from bringing Sargeras into Azeroth known as the Great Sundering, Azeroth's supposedly first death. We will unravel the mystery behind the Elven lineage as we dive deeper by exploring their roots, from where truly they came from. Everything about WoW now is already prepared; everything is set in stone. The Burning Legion has some what ended Queen Azshara was involved with them which caused the Sundering and She also is an intercessor or should I say we can consider as a double bargain with the old gods.Now they devolved into what you have mentioned.

King Rastakhan holds the knowledge without a doubt as to Zandalari Trolls is one of the ancient civilizations of Azeroth both post and pre-Great Sundering. And for sure the Darkspear tribe will be a catalyst in able for the Horde to step foot into Zandalar.

[Aeula]

So will we find out whether she was the first troll to become an elf?

Perhaps, or maybe Blizzard will simply not cover it. Wouldn’t surprise me.

[Spray]

Queen azshara was a night elf mutated into a naga.

Yes. but trolls existed before elves and first elves stemmed from them.

[Wildmoon]

There's quite large time gap between the transforming of the dark trolls and the rise of Azshara.

[vertigo12]

Yes. but trolls existed before elves and first elves stemmed from them.

Thus the OP

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There's quite large time gap between the transforming of the dark trolls and the rise of Azshara.

The time difference or gap stating how the Night Elves or Nightborne/Zin'Asharian's Rise to Power wasn't exactly stated but a detail that I've founded in wowwiki states that they ascended to power as soon as the different tribes of Zandalar settled at different new continent of Azeroth, post Great Sundering as well as preventing the dominion of the different Aqirs: Nerubians vs. Drakari in Northrend, Qiraji vs. Faraki in Southern Kalimdor, no idea which troll handled the Mantids.

Aqir vs. Troll Empire of Zul in Old Kalimdor

correction it was stated and according to what I've read it was about a millenia when Kaldorei civilization rise above Zandalari.

The Rise of the kaldorei

The rising Kaldorei Empire
In the millennia that followed the founding of the empire, the troll race continued to maintain control over much of the continent of Ancient Kalimdor. This changed, however, when a new race known as the kaldorei emerged near the waters of the mystical Well of Eternity. Although originally evolved from trolls (greatly influenced by their proximity to the well) the kaldorei, or night elves, bore very little resemblance at all to the other ancient race. Physically, they were much more sleek and elegant, but culturally they had adopted their own traditions. They adopted new religious beliefs and quickly established their own civilization in the center of Kalimdor. The night elves, highly intelligent and able to harness the innate magical forces of the world, began to forge their own empire completely independent of their troll ancestors

[Hikidoki]

Thus the OP

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The time difference or gap stating how the Night Elves or Nightborne/Zin'Asharian's Rise to Power wasn't exactly stated but a detail that I've founded in wowwiki states that they ascended to power as soon as the different tribes of Zandalar settled at different new continent of Azeroth, post Great Sundering as well as preventing the dominion of the different Aqirs: Nerubians vs. Drakari in Northrend, Qiraji vs. Faraki in Southern Kalimdor, no idea which troll handled the Mantids.

its deffinately a long time between them, its in chronical. the official WoW history

[Wildmoon]

The time difference or gap stating how the Night Elves or Nightborne/Zin'Asharian's Rise to Power wasn't exactly stated but a detail that I've founded in wowwiki states that they ascended to power as soon as the different tribes of Zandalar settled at different new continent of Azeroth, post Great Sundering as well as preventing the dominion of the different Aqirs: Nerubians vs. Drakari in Northrend, Qiraji vs. Faraki in Southern Kalimdor, no idea which troll handled the Mantids.

There was no Nightborne back then. The gap is large enough that the night elves built elaborated civilization before Azshara. Elun'dris was their capital before it was renamed to Zin'Azshari.

[vertigo12]

There was no Nightborne back then. The gap is large enough that the night elves built elaborated civilization before Azshara. Elun'dris was their capital before it was renamed to Zin'Azshari.

Basically Nightborne existed back then and I tell you why. They are part of the lower class of Kaldorei heirarchy probably commoners. When Suramar got assunder apart from Ancient Kalimdor tored in between the Great Seas and Zin'Ashari, they have been the highest of the caste system.

Elven Caste:
-Zin'asharian Elves, the elitist or Highborne and now the Nagas
- Nightborne Elves, the Shal'dorei, remainder of the Ancient Kaldorei civilization trapped in Suramar, elitist above Nightfallen
- Sin'dorei, remainders of the Highborne who followed the exodus and founded Quel'thalas
- Quel'dorei, Highborne loyal to the Grand Alliance

It took a millenia also from rise to fall of the Kaldorei empire prior to War of the Ancients and the Great Sundering.

Technically Malfurion Stormrage, Illidan Stormrage, Tyrande Whisperwind, Kael'thas Sunstrider by default are Highborne or Shal'dorei and can be interchangeable with the distinction of Kael'thas Sunstrider being a Queldorei Highborne Blood Elf.

[derpkitteh]

i'm pretty sure something was said about her birth. but i can't remember what.

i believe there were other night elven queens before her.

[Wildmoon]

Basically Nightborne existed back then and I tell you why. They are part of the lower class of Kaldorei heirarchy probably commoners. When Suramar got assunder apart from Ancient Kalimdor tored in between the Great Seas and Zin'Ashari, they have been the highest of the caste system.

Elven Caste:
-Zin'asharian Elves, the elitist or Highborne and now the Nagas
- Nightborne Elves, the Shal'dorei, remainder of the Ancient Kaldorei civilization trapped in Suramar, elitist above Nightfallen
- Sin'dorei, remainders of the Highborne who followed the exodus and founded Quel'thalas
- Quel'dorei, Highborne loyal to the Grand Alliance
-

They did not exist because "Nightborne" is a name for night elves mutated by the nightwell. The elites of the night elves of Suramar were also highborne. They acted as an extension of Azshara's will in that region.

Malfurion, Illidan, Tyrande and many others also were residents of Suramar. They were not nightborne.

[vertigo12]

They did not exist because "Nightborne" is a name for night elves mutated by the nightwell. The elites of the night elves of Suramar were also highborne. They acted as an extension of Azshara's will in that region.

Malfurion, Illidan, Tyrande and many others also were residents of Suramar. They were not nightborne.

"Malfurion and his twin brother, Illidan, were born at Lorlathil in Val'sharah[18] and grew up in Suramar as friends with Tyrande Whisperwind."


They were Nightbornes since they all came from one place and one civilization. The only difference is they made their own exodus founded Darnassus and establish/settled in what is now Kalimdor.

So basically all Night Elves were former Nightborne not unless they were born after the Great Sundering in what is now Kalimdor,not the Ancient Kalimdor which WoW haven't implemented in game as of now but for sure they will probably will as a future content of an expac.

As an analogy:
- All Night Elves are Nightborne not unless they are born after the Great Sundering.
- All Queldorei or Highelves are Nightborne as well as their children. The children may use and claim the title High Elves since their parents are.
- Not all Sin'dorei are Highelves since children born after the Sundering and after the founding of Quel'thalas but they may use the title High Elves or Quel'dorei
- Sylvanas Windrunner is a Nightborne who then became a Ranger General of Silvermoon city, a High Elf who dies at the hand of Arthas and raised as the Banshee Queen. So far the prominent Undead/Forsaken Nightborne Quel'dorei.
- Vereesa and Alleria are also Nightborne High Elves.
- xxxx'dorei the children of the void or whatever title the Void Elves will use. Are exiled Blood elves who will become Alliance once more technically the Queldorei Sindorei of the Grand Alliance and will be reintroduced in their ranks once more.

[Ethenil]

The dark trolls had already mutaded into night elves around 15kya, and Azshara rose to power around 12kya, which is when the kaldorei properly began expanding to the far reaches of Kalimdor.

Presumably, there would have been previous elven rulers, and potentially various kaldorei states before being unified.

[Wildmoon]

"Malfurion and his twin brother, Illidan, were born at Lorlathil in Val'sharah[18] and grew up in Suramar as friends with Tyrande Whisperwind."


They were Nightbornes since they all came from one place and one civilization. The only difference is they made their own exodus founded Darnassus and establish/settled in what is now Kalimdor.

So basically all Night Elves were former Nightborne not unless they were born after the Great Sundering in what is now Kalimdor,not the Ancient Kalimdor which WoW haven't implemented in game as of now but for sure they will probably will as a future content of an expac.

As an analogy:
- All Night Elves are Nightborne not unless they are born after the Great Sundering.
- All Queldorei or Highelves are Nightborne as well as their children. The children may use and claim the title Nightborne since their parents are.
- Not all Sin'dorei are Highelves since children born after the Sundering and after the founding of Quel'thalas but they may use the title High Elves or Quel'dorei
- Sylvanas Windrunner is a Nightborne who then became a Ranger General of Silvermoon city, a High Elf who dies at the hand of Arthas and raised as the Banshee Queen. So far the prominent Undead/Forsaken Nightborne Quel'dorei.
- Vereesa and Alleria are also Nightborne High Elves.
- xxxx'dorei the children of the void or whatever title the Void Elves will use. Are exiled Blood elves who will become Alliance once more technically the Queldorei Sindorei of the Grand Alliance and will be reintroduced in their ranks once more.

You simply do not understand the meaning of the term. The term entails biological differences which happned after certain period in the history. The people who have nothing to do with that are not nightborne. Also not all night elves who survived the Sundering came from Suramar. Not sure I am being trolled.

[vertigo12]

The dark trolls had already mutaded into night elves around 15kya, and Azshara rose to power around 12kya, which is when the kaldorei properly began expanding to the far reaches of Kalimdor.

Presumably, there would have been previous elven rulers, and potentially various kaldorei states before being unified.

Which we will soon find out. I'm interested if Queen Azshara is indeed of of the mutated Dark Trolls what would be her relationship with King Rhastakhan? Would they be lovers??????Rivals?

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You simply do not understand the meaning of the term. The term entails biological differences which happned after certain period in the history. The people who have nothing to do with that are not nightborne. Not sure I am being trolled.

I know genealogy as it is one of my major interest. The split happened after the Great Sundering.

to the West- Kalimdor/Darnassus with Malfurion/Illidan/Tyrande -incumbent
Northern - Suramar Elisande/Now Thalysrra,
Central- Maelstrom/Naz'jatar- Queen Azshara incumbent
East- Quel'thalas Regent Lord
Across Azeroth and Draenor- High Elves Alleria - from Draenor to Argus, Vereesa and other High Elves - Dalaran


Void Elven Insignia

Blood Elven Insignia

High Elven Insignia

Night Elven Insignia

Nightborne Insignia

[derpkitteh]

http://www.wowhead.com/item=121410/c...nial-vestments

there's this item, which i've only ever found in azsuna.

it shows that the change in culture was at least very gradual. they didn't just immediately drop loa worship once they were transformed.

so, i definitely believe that azshara wasn't the first. it feels like this happened over thousands of years we don't have any real info on.

[Wildmoon]

to the West- Kalimdor/Darnassus with Malfurion/Illidan/Tyrande -incumbent
Northern - Suramar Elisande/Now Thalysrra,
Central- Maelstrom/Naz'jatar- Queen Azshara incumbent
East- Quel'thalas Regent Lord
Across Azeroth and Draenor- High Elves Alleria - from Draenor to Argus, Vereesa and other High Elves - Dalaran

They were all night elves back then. That's why I don't know what you are talking about. There was no nightborne in WotA.

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http://www.wowhead.com/item=121410/c...nial-vestments

there's this item, which i've only ever found in azsuna.

it shows that the change in culture was at least very gradual. they didn't just immediately drop loa worship once they were transformed.

so, i definitely believe that azshara wasn't the first. it feels like this happened over thousands of years we don't have any real info on.

The gap between the transformation of the dark trolls and the rise of Azshara is around 5000 years.

[vertigo12]

http://www.wowhead.com/item=121410/c...nial-vestments

there's this item, which i've only ever found in azsuna.

it shows that the change in culture was at least very gradual. they didn't just immediately drop loa worship once they were transformed.

so, i definitely believe that azshara wasn't the first. it feels like this happened over thousands of years we don't have any real info on.

Queen Azshara for sure knows the answer. King Rhastakhan might as well have an idea.

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They were all night elves back then. That's why I don't know what you are talking about. There was no nightborne in WotA.

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The gap between the transformation of the dark trolls and the rise of Azshara is around 5000 years.

"The nightborne (also spelled the Nightborne)[4] or shal'dorei in the native tongue[5][6] are a powerful and mystical race of night elves who live in Suramar. Since the city was first separated from the rest of the world over 10,000 years ago, they have evolved by the Nightwell into an arcane-enhanced version of their former selves."

High Elves became pale ass they stick to the Sunwell instead.
Horde will get their Night elf counter part while Alliance will get their High Elf/Blood elf counter part.