Mobile Tranq on the chopping block

[Keiyra]

So, this is ominous (from dev Q&A)

Mobile Tranq is probably not something that should move forward into BfA, but that decision hasn't been made. Resto Druids are already very mobile in most aspects of their gameplay.

To be frank, I'd miss it. Raided plenty with the non-moving tranq so its not that big a deal, but still sad to see it go (if it does go). Lets just hope there aren't as many high movement+healing CD required overlaps as there have been in the last few expansions.

To reiterate - I'm not whinging it can't be done, holy's been stuck with non-mobile hymn this whole time, but it's been a very nice perk we've had since symbiosis, and will take adjusting should it get the axe

[Tiberria]

It's a nonsensical decision that is taking class design concepts totally out of reality with the actual mechanics of how healing and the game plays out.

There's a reason why on 3 different occasions, they have added the ability to Tranq while moving (Symbiosis, then Aspect of the Fox, then the Legion artifact trait) - because fundamentally, it's actually required when Barrier, Sac Aura, HTT, Revival and SLT are all instant casts. They also said in one of the Blizzcon interviews that they are happy with the role and strength of raid CDs, so they are staying as is. However, with how strong they are, and how important being able to use them effectively is to being useful as a healer, having 5 raid CDs that don't have this restriction and 2 that require a stupid 8 second channel just doesn't work/creates problems. Even with being able to cast it while moving, it's still mechanically worse, because you still have an 8 second channel, while the Shaman can cast other stuff during HTT.

Ion did say that they think Tranq should be stronger than HTT to account for this limitation, but that also never ends up working out. Basically, HTT still needs to be strong enough to be able to fill the role of a raid CD for a "use raid CD here" mechanic. If it's strong enough for that, it's probably already as strong as you need it to be anyway. Having Tranq be say 20% stronger than HTT will just results in either meter padding or overheal, and doesn't actually make up for it being mechanically inferior if not flat out unusable in certain situations.

As far as "Resto Druids are already very mobile in most aspects of their gameplay." That is utter and ridiculous nonsense. Sure, Resto Druids have more instant cast than other healers. However, those instant casts are offset by the fact that they are almost all HoTs and take ~18 seconds to fully heal out. While you may not be able to cast your Chain Heal or your Prayer of Healing or Flash of Light or whatever while moving, at least once you cast it in ~2 seconds, you get the full value of the heal and higher HP% immediately. The concept of instant casts as HoTs vs direct immediate heals having a cast time already is an inherent functional offset of Druid mobility. There's no need to also dumpster our raid cooldown on top of that. It definitely shows what healing class he plays to not understand this.

[Deleted]

Fucking cya rofl hahahhaa reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[decnalabnu]

Fucking cya rofl hahahhaa reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

10/10

10char

[Ningjinq]

They did this with a lot of the Draenor perks for when Legion launches. A lot of QoL changes were removed and replaced with others. (I will miss 60% hp reincarnate). They’ll do the same here. Lose moving tranq and gain some other QoL improvement.

[Tiberria]

They did this with a lot of the Draenor perks for when Legion launches. A lot of QoL changes were removed and replaced with others. (I will miss 60% hp reincarnate). They’ll do the same here. Lose moving tranq and gain some other QoL improvement.

Not an acceptable trade off, and this is hardly a "QoL issue". It's something that significantly affects the usability of your most important CD in a healing meta which is built around raid CDs (and they've said they like the strength of raid CDs), and where only 2 of 6 specs have this issue. It's a basic fundamental game play issue that should be baselined. Adding a crappy QoL fix to something else is absolutely not going to compensate for this.

[gobio]

WTF That means I cannot do a perfect quadruple Salchow while doing TRANQ around the resto shaman and holy priest to mock them?

[Minttunator]

I will be absolutely gutted is mobile Tranq is removed - on the other hand, there's a pretty decent chance that they'll have to buff it a bit to compensate!

[Khrux]

If priests can survive with a non-mobile raid wide heal, when almost all of their main healing kit also requires they stand still, then I'm pretty sure Druids will survive having stationary Tranq when most of their healing kit gives them full movement.

People look at comments like this, as if its going to be introduced in the next maintenance. This is a BfA or maybe pre-patch change, if that, which may not even be needed for new content.

[Deleted]

If priests can survive with a non-mobile raid wide heal, when almost all of their main healing kit also requires they stand still, then I'm pretty sure Druids will survive having stationary Tranq when most of their healing kit gives them full movement.

People look at comments like this, as if its going to be introduced in the next maintenance. This is a BfA or maybe pre-patch change, if that, which may not even be needed for new content.

"Can" survive and be labeled as worse druid in every single aspect of healing aside trolling teammates

[Nevcairiel]

Please, we've had non-moving tranq basically since forever, losing it again won't suddenly destroy all resto druids. But of course some people always see the sky falling with every change, and a certain someone in this thread is definitely among those.

What a boring world would we live in if all heals of all classes would be exactly identical.

And don't get me started on the "we're mobile but weak" nonsense. We can move while healing the majority of the time, others cannot, period. We're not significantly weaker when standing still, so this is a clear advantage, or are you claiming now that on a stationary fight we would have no chance to heal competitively all of the sudden?

[Tiberria]

If priests can survive with a non-mobile raid wide heal, when almost all of their main healing kit also requires they stand still, then I'm pretty sure Druids will survive having stationary Tranq when most of their healing kit gives them full movement.

People look at comments like this, as if its going to be introduced in the next maintenance. This is a BfA or maybe pre-patch change, if that, which may not even be needed for new content.

Holy Priests are hardly a worthwhile comparison. That spec has basically been a meme/considered trash throughout most of the last 3 expansions, with the possible exception of the current tier (mainly because of their OP set bonuses). Holy Priest level is exactly what we don't want.

- - - Updated - - -

Please, we've had non-moving tranq basically since forever, losing it again won't suddenly destroy all resto druids. But of course some people always see the sky falling with every change, and a certain someone in this thread is definitely among those.

What a boring world would we live in if all heals of all classes would be exactly identical.

And don't get me started on the "we're mobile but weak" nonsense. We can move while healing the majority of the time, others cannot, period. We're not significantly weaker when standing still, so this is a clear advantage, or are you claiming now that on a stationary fight we would have no chance to heal competitively all of the sudden?

Actually, no we haven't "had non-moving Tranq basically since forever". Dating back to Cata, HFC was literally the only raid tier where we didn't have some way to have mobile Tranq.

Cata and MoP - Symbiosis a Shaman for Spiritwalker's Grace, macro it to Tranq and you have moving Tranq
First half of WoD - Hunters had Aspect of the Fox, and on any fight like Blackhand where stationary Tranq was a real problem, you could just have them use it in line with Tranq/Hymn.
HFC - Only time we didn't have it.
Legion - Artifact trait

So, basically, we have had this capability for the last 9 years with the exception of one raid tier. Don't act like it's some newfangled Legion thing that warrants being removed.

- - - Updated - - -

And don't get me started on the "we're mobile but weak" nonsense. We can move while healing the majority of the time, others cannot, period. We're not significantly weaker when standing still, so this is a clear advantage, or are you claiming now that on a stationary fight we would have no chance to heal competitively all of the sudden?

This is so wrong-headed it's ridiculous.

For one, yes Druids have the advantage of our main filler spell being castable while moving. Although, other than Rejuv (and Swiftmend every 30 seconds), everything else needs to be cast. If we're not casting Wild Growth, we are trash. If Efflo isn't usable or worth using because the raid isn't stationary in it for long enough, we lose a lot of throughput. Don't act as if we can continue to produce 100% of our throughput while moving without losing anything, while every other healer does 0%.

As far as other healers, they all have significant amount of instants and other tools. For example, a Shaman has Riptide, HST, and the option to use SWG to have less limitations than Druids have during a long movement phase. Sure, they may have to skip a Chain Heal here or there, but you're probably talking about a Druid doing 70% of their healing while moving and a Shaman doing 65% or something. Paladins have Holy Shock, Light of Dawn, LoTM, etc.

The mobility advantage is overstated, and that advantage gets trampled on when our raid CD isn't usable some of the time because of the 8 second channel without being able to move. If the Druid niche/strength is supposed to be mobility, why should our raid CD's usage be the complete opposite of that niche? This is almost like giving Paladins a debuff where after using Sac Aura, their Beacons don't do any healing for a minute. It's ridiculous.

[Keltas]

Just like to note that considering they bring mobile tranq back pretty much every expansion, you could probably expect it to show up as a heart of azeroth perk.

[Xar226]

Frankly I'd like to see the whole concept of raid CDs like this die in a fire, but if they're going to stay then they should not be mobile. It's stupid enough to be able to basically top the raid with a single button, it's even worse when you don't have to spare a second's thought to when is a good time to use it.

If the Druid niche/strength is supposed to be mobility, why should our raid CD's usage be the complete opposite of that niche?

Because being able to heal while moving is demonstrably better than not being able to and a class that is good at everything all the time is overpowered, not a "niche." There needs to be tradeoffs. Unless you're willing to take, say, a 10% or more throughput hit in exchange for this mobility? Then we can talk.

[Nevcairiel]

Just like to note that considering they bring mobile tranq back pretty much every expansion, you could probably expect it to show up as a heart of azeroth perk.

They did only say they don't want it to be baseline. Its very well possible that it might be a perk on some items, of course not all of them.
You get up to 12 traits afterall (3 items with 4 each).

Although considering they want most of those traits scaleable so that item level matters, who knows how the exact design of the various traits looks like.

PS:
Not everyone had a resto shaman all the time, especially if you raided 10HC. We still did fine.

[Deleted]

Although, other than Rejuv (and Swiftmend every 30 seconds), everything else needs to be cast.

Made my day. Thanks.

Call bop or spellwarding from the master class if you can't safely tranq in BfA

[Tiberria]

Frankly I'd like to see the whole concept of raid CDs like this die in a fire, but if they're going to stay then they should not be mobile. It's stupid enough to be able to basically top the raid with a single button, it's even worse when you don't have to spare a second's thought to when is a good time to use it.



Because being able to heal while moving is demonstrably better than not being able to and a class that is good at everything all the time is overpowered, not a "niche." There needs to be tradeoffs. Unless you're willing to take, say, a 10% or more throughput hit in exchange for this mobility? Then we can talk.

Why should we take a throughput hit from this mobility when every other healing spec (except HPriest) already has it baseline? Should they also take a throughput hit? And, I agree that raid CDs should be removed, and it's fine to argue that they shouldn't be mobile. The problem is 75% of them already are mobile. They should either all have a channel/cast, or none of them should.

[Polarthief]

For one, yes Druids have the advantage of our main filler spell being castable while moving. Although, other than Rejuv (and Swiftmend every 30 seconds), everything else needs to be cast. If we're not casting Wild Growth, we are trash. If Efflo isn't usable or worth using because the raid isn't stationary in it for long enough, we lose a lot of throughput. Don't act as if we can continue to produce 100% of our throughput while moving without losing anything, while every other healer does 0%.

Pretty much this. Dunno how people think Druids are "so amazing while mobile" when you get a 30s cooldown and Rejuv. News flash: Rejuv isn't keeping ANYONE up during big hits. Even I know this and Resto's my 3rd spec. Literally everyone knows this. Rejuv is a HoT, an HP buffer, not a legitimate way to actually heal people through damage. That's what Wild Growth (a cast spell) is for. That's what your Regrowths (a cast spell) is for. Other classes have cooldowns and other means of healing that's instant as well.

Also, while Efflo may be an instant cast, if you cast that while your group is moving, guess what's gonna happen? They're going to move out of position for it (waste of mana), and history repeats itself: No one intentionally stands in healing circles.

I'm fine if Mobile Tranq goes away if other healers have to channel their cooldowns, such as Shamans (both HTT and SLT) and Disc Priests (raid bubble).

PS: You forgot Lifebloom, but that never heals anything but a tank anyway.

[Jester Joe]

Actually, no we haven't "had non-moving Tranq basically since forever". Dating back to Cata, HFC was literally the only raid tier where we didn't have some way to have mobile Tranq.

Cata and MoP - Symbiosis a Shaman for Spiritwalker's Grace, macro it to Tranq and you have moving Tranq
First half of WoD - Hunters had Aspect of the Fox, and on any fight like Blackhand where stationary Tranq was a real problem, you could just have them use it in line with Tranq/Hymn.
HFC - Only time we didn't have it.
Legion - Artifact trait

So, basically, we have had this capability for the last 9 years with the exception of one raid tier. Don't act like it's some newfangled Legion thing that warrants being removed.

Symbiosis was introduced in MoP though, not Cata.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Symbiosis

[Taedae]

While mobile Tranq has been useful this expansion, I am not upset about it being removed. Would I like it to stay? Absolutely, but I also understand why is isn't staying. For the last 9 years, I've mained a Resto Druid, and I had to learn the fights in raids and dungeons enough to know when would be a good time to pop Tranq. I had to learn to anticipate stuns, silences, push backs, and anything else (such as moving out of other damage) that would cancel Tranq and cause the group to lose out on it's heals. In Legion, with it being mobile, it almost seems cheap. My raid team has made it through situations that we shouldn't have purely because of mobile Tranq (and by shouldn't have, I mean my team wasn't focusing enough and was screwing up when they should have known better, but I was able to save the raid anyway). Things like that should be failures to teach the raid groups/dungeon teams to do their jobs. The healers are there to keep people alive, yes, but they aren't there to cover up for errors that are completely avoidable, especially on a mass scale.

I know this isn't necessarily everyone's experience, but it has been for me. Mobile Tranq has caused me to be less aware of the fights for that same reason. Why bother anticipating anything when I can just Tranq? I prefer the old way. I made me, and my raid team, better players.