Belgium: Lootoboxes are gambling, potential EU wide ban

[Deleted]

100 eurobucks base games inc.

Or instead getting 20% of game and 4 "expansions" we will get 10% of game and 9 expansions. Of course each expansion will add something OP in multiplayer online games that make it essential to own the expansions to play the game online.

[Deleted]

Age rating does much more than just asking for ID card, when buying game. For example, tt restricts advertisement in a big way. And this is where it may hurt.

Fair enough.

[Coldkil]

Lootboxes are designed to be addictive so people buy lots of them - and risking money for a chance of getting thing that you want is gambling. Doesn't matter if you get nothing or a duplicate or always something because otherwise all casinos weren't anymore gambling because they give you a Mars bar at the end of the night.

I can agree that the addiction is a people issue, but coupled with videogames you're going to impact on a very big part of underage people who usually just don't know better (aswell as some parents). It's the mix of everything that's particularly nasty.

Also worth mentioning that this isn't going to affect microtx in general: as soon it's a standard "spend X get Y" everything is going to stay as it is, including the p2w ones.

I'm happy if lootboxes just go away. They literally bring nothing worth to the table, even in the case of just cosmetics, and have only ill side effects.

[Deleted]

Inb4 EU game prices increased by 50-100% to counter it.

Lootboxes are gambling. I am glad authorities started to figure out this. Peoples gets robbed over free games all over. Kids can't control their emotions and basically broke their parents credit cards in this gambling.

Game price is other story. Devs who will increase game prices will wait for annual events to go for 75% or more discount to sell anything, peoples are not stupid.

[Kuja]

Interesting. Are Hearthstone packs also considered gambling? As you can win the jackpot and get a legendary, or get shit. Or do some lootboxes give nothing? That would fall under gambling at least.

[cparle87]

Lootboxes are gambling. I am glad authorities started to figure out this. Peoples gets robbed over free games all over. Kids can't control their emotions and basically broke their parents credit cards in this gambling.

Game price is other story. Devs who will increase game prices will wait for annual events to go for 75% or more discount to sell anything, peoples are not stupid.

Quick! The government needs to protect stupid parents who allow their kids unlimited access to their credit cards!

[Coldkil]

Interesting. Are Hearthstone packs also considered gambling? As you can win the jackpot and get a legendary, or get shit. Or do some lootboxes give nothing? That would fall under gambling at least.

The fact you get digital useless stuff every time doesn't matter. However i'm curious as you on how different games will change on this. I can see OW putting up a skins store, or BF2 going the same way but TCG games are a whole another story since card packs are a core mechanic.

[Deleted]

Quick! The government needs to protect stupid parents who allow their kids unlimited access to their credit cards!

Can kids play virtual slot machines or online poker?

[Marc7]

Interesting. Are Hearthstone packs also considered gambling? As you can win the jackpot and get a legendary, or get shit. Or do some lootboxes give nothing? That would fall under gambling at least.

It's still just Belgium. We don't know yet how it'll work. I wouldn't be surprised if the EU got behind this though, but that will be some time in the future yet, and it will have to be decided on a game-by-game basis. It would actually be interesting to see how Blizzard would react to HS packs being classified as gambling and the game receiving, say, an 18+ age tag (preventing them from marketing it too). They couldn't start selling the sets as fixed packages either, because they would have to be insanely expensive to make as much money as the RNG packs do.

[Deleted]

It's still just Belgium. We don't know yet how it'll work. I wouldn't be surprised if the EU got behind this though, but that will be some time in the future yet, and it will have to be decided on a game-by-game basis. It would actually be interesting to see how Blizzard would react to HS packs being classified as gambling and the game receiving, say, an 18+ age tag (preventing them from marketing it too). They couldn't start selling the sets as fixed packages either, because they would have to be insanely expensive to make as much money as the RNG packs do.

I don't understand why you think is ONLY Blizzard who use that gambling model. Look a bit in Google Store, there are endless examples. Is not only Blizzard.

I am from EU and so far I think we deserve some mentions: data protection, cookie policies, roaming cell phones zero taxes and a lot of things. Lootboxes if get's into discussion will basically be destroyed in first day, data protection debate was a huge scandal with mega corps involved.

[cparle87]

Can kids play virtual slot machines or online poker?

Explains what happened to the Game Corner in Pokemon.

[Dezerte]

I'll be expecting a raised age rating on those games.

[Jimmy Thick]

Is a pack of sports cards/trading cards gambling? You don't know whats inside and are paying for a random chance at possible valuable cards.

What about a box of Cracker Jack? You will get a random prize at the bottom of the box as advertised but if you want the little book of tattoos but get a button sticker instead did you just gamble based on the logic being posted here?

These are items that have been around for almost a century, no one has question if they are gambling.

Do we really want governmental regulators getting their hands in gaming? Are loot boxes so bad you really really want big brother stepping in?

Beware what you wish for.

And if you really think the "players" won one over EA you/re only fooling yourself, all the have to do is jack up game prices, your $60 game will be $120 and they will have $50-100 season passes. Get over yourselves, they will get the last laugh.

[Deleted]

I'll be expecting a raised age rating on those games.

Yes, and i think it was about time.
Gamers demography has changed a lot in the last 20 years, and there are games wich should not be touched by non adults, or at least they should be 18+ only, that way if they have addiction problems, at least they would be on par with other addiction sources protection for people under 18.

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Is a pack of sports cards/trading cards gambling?

This is an activity in which children are controlled by their parents 99,99% of the time they are involved with it, mostly because it is a thing for very small children, not teenagers.
If trading cards were an activity that could spark an addiction in teenagers it would be regulated in a very different way for sure.

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And if you really think the "players" won one over EA you/re only fooling yourself, all the have to do is jack up game prices, your $60 game will be $120 and they will have $50-100 season passes. Get over yourselves, they will get the last laugh.

Do you really think EA could rise the price of their games just like that?, with no consequence?
So they are charging 60$ instead of 120$, because of the good of their heart, seriously?, EA?

[Deleted]

Is a pack of sports cards/trading cards gambling? You don't know whats inside and are paying for a random chance at possible valuable cards.

Yes, they are, and it's a case of law lagging behind.

In some countries, you can only participate in tourneys when you are +18 years old.

What about a box of Cracker Jack? You will get a random prize at the bottom of the box as advertised but if you want the little book of tattoos but get a button sticker instead did you just gamble based on the logic being posted here?

You bought the box of Cracker Jack, not the chance for the random value.

[dope_danny]

Inb4 EU game prices increased by 50-100% to counter it.

Why would they? the few publishers like EA and Activision pushing them are dirtbags but i've played some amazing games this year and not one had to push lockboxes. They only devs claiming prices will increases are the ones pushing the lockbox meme. Mario Odyssey or Nier Automata didn't need to charge more because they didn't have lockboxes.

[melodramocracy]

The logical conclusion for Belgium to draw is that most videogames themselves are gambling, as you're paying an upfront fee for a chance at variable (in many cases) loot.

When you see a gov't ban gambling, you can be sure it's because they're angry that they're not getting a piece of the action. And the 'law' is about as effective as prohibition was.

[Deleted]

Lootboxes are designed to be addictive so people buy lots of them - and risking money for a chance of getting thing that you want is gambling. Doesn't matter if you get nothing or a duplicate or always something because otherwise all casinos weren't anymore gambling because they give you a Mars bar at the end of the night.

I can agree that the addiction is a people issue, but coupled with videogames you're going to impact on a very big part of underage people who usually just don't know better (aswell as some parents). It's the mix of everything that's particularly nasty.

Also worth mentioning that this isn't going to affect microtx in general: as soon it's a standard "spend X get Y" everything is going to stay as it is, including the p2w ones.

I'm happy if lootboxes just go away. They literally bring nothing worth to the table, even in the case of just cosmetics, and have only ill side effects.

Except it gives free content and development to the normal people thats being paid for by the dribbling idiots that can't control them selfs.
Which is now going away, so the only people getting screwed is us. Seeing we will need to pay the money the company won't be making with these lootboxes.

[Deleted]

The logical conclusion for Belgium to draw is that most videogames themselves are gambling, as you're paying an upfront fee for a chance at variable (in many cases) loot.

When you see a gov't ban gambling, you can be sure it's because they're angry that they're not getting a piece of the action. And the 'law' is about as effective as prohibition was.

Except is not about banning, it about applying the laws and regulating it like every other gambling system.

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Except it gives free content and development to the normal people thats being paid for by the dribbling idiots that can't control them selfs.
Which is now going away, so the only people getting screwed is us. Seeing we will need to pay the money the company won't be making with these lootboxes.

Then why are GTA:O and LoL money printing machines?

[minteK917]

Except it gives free content and development to the normal people thats being paid for by the dribbling idiots that can't control them selfs.
Which is now going away, so the only people getting screwed is us. Seeing we will need to pay the money the company won't be making with these lootboxes.

You realize they can still sell cosmetic stuff for money.. just not random ones?