About Allied Races and Racials

[Sylar Hao]

Ever since the announcement of the so called "Allied Races" (1) (2), I've been thinking that it's wrong they have different racials, let me explain this with every new race:

The Tauren
The only real difference between Bloodhooves and Highmountains are their horns, which, from a genetic point of view, it's just a mutation. Everything else it's pretty much the same race, even with how long these races have been separated, so both Tauren types could breed between them. So, I can understand that the Bloodhooves get an increased herbalism skill trait since they live in a vast prairie plenty of herbs and flowers, while the Highmountains get an increased mining skill because they live in a much rocky place. But the rest of the traits or racials should just be the same:
- BH get slightly more stamina, HM get slightly reduced damage taken, which is pretty much the same thing.
- BH get increased critical effects, HM get increased versatility, which is pretty much the same thing.
- They are both collector races, so the extra food trait should be given to both, imo.

And now the active skill: imagine two bodybuilders, they don't know each other and they workout differently, but they have the same body and strength, they meet and they decide to train together, one works chest one way they other doesn't know, so the former teaches the later and maybe the first time he tries he doesn't have the technic to do it correctly but since he is well trained after a couple tries he knows how to do it exactly like the first guy, and it has taken a few minutes to learn. Well, that's exactly what both War Stomp and Bull Rush are, physical skills a naturally big and strong creature can learn and master quickly, so, why don't they both get both active racials and share CD much like Goblins' Jump and Barrage?

So in my opinion, both Tauren racials should merge somehow.


The Blood Elves.
This case bugs me more. How long have been Void Elves outcast from the Blood Elves? A few months? A few years? They are still the same race, but corrupted by the void. Is that enough time to completely transform your natural YOU into something completely different to consider you a different race?
The comparison I'm gonna do here is done in a respectful way: Imagine you're a natural at playing guitar (Arcane Torrent) and for whatever reason you fall into a depression (getting in touch with the void) and you stop playing it. You are feeling so sad, you don't suddenly acquire, say, masterful skills at playing chess (Spatial Rift), it's something you must develope over a long time. This depression may corrupt your mind for a while so you get used to it (arcane and shadow resistance) but you are still you, even if it takes long, whenever you decide to play the guitar again you will still have your natural skill (Arcane Torrent) even if you sound rusty.

So I find it weird that they have different racial traits than the standard Blood Elves. (3)


The Trolls
Same argument here. As far as I know, Zandalari trolls have inhabitated many places all over Azeroth, not just Zandalar, it was a big empire after all, and although there have been many evolutions (forest trolls, sand trolls, etc...) they all belong to the same family of species, and share the same wild, savage, loa-guided tribal nature. I don't know for how long the Darkspear and the Zandalari have lost contact, but is that enough to make them different races?
Shouldn't they just share the same racial traits with maybe 1 different trait like the Tauren proffession trait?


The Draenei
The Draenei, lightforged or not, have a natural bond with the Light and the Naaru. The regular Draenei just happen to be forced to land on a different planet and start from almost zero a new civilization while they others could keep their bond up and well, get lightforged and all that stuff, but, is that enough to make them actually have different racials? I think not.

In these 4 cases, they should just merge these traits and consider them a trait update for the old races, while maybe keeping 1 or 2 traits different. (4)


When it comes to Nightborne and Dark Iron Dwarves, they have been separated (isolated?) for so long that it's only logical they have different racials, although they could still share 1 or 2 traits with the Night Elves and Bronzebeards.



(1) - Technically, what we call races in the WoW universe are species, but we've been using the term "races" for so long...

(2) - I think the name "Allied Races" is not very well-chosen. I mean, aren't orcs and trolls, or human and gnomes, allied races between them? When you join a faction you are an allied, unless you don't fully join it but more like some sort of economical or political agreement without full commitment, and as far I'm concerned, the new races join their respective factions without strings attached, and calling them Allied Races would imply they aren't fully committing to the cause. I feel it's an ambiguous term.

(3) - While writing this text wall I got this sudden thinking: can the different elven races breed between them? I guess the answer is yes since there are Half-Elves and Human share much less genetic percentage than Elves between them. This led me to: what would a NE+BE child would look like? What racials would it have? Could this mixed-Elf breed? Can Half-Elves breed? (Lions and Tigers can inbreed but their children are sterile)...

And all of this led me to: what about a Human+Worgen? Would the child be cursed? How do two worgen do the sexual act, in human or worgen form?

(PLEASE, DON'T JUDGE ME. XD)

(4) - I know that for gameplay sake, they all must have different racials as a way to incentivate players to unlock them and level them up.





TL;DR: Trolls, Taurens, Blood Elves and Draenei should share all (or most) of the racials.

[Garfurion]

(3) - While writing this text wall I got this sudden thinking: can the different elven races breed between them? I guess the answer is yes since there are Half-Elves and Human share much less genetic percentage than Elves between them. This led me to: what would a NE+BE child would look like? What racials would it have? Could this mixed-Elf breed? Can Half-Elves breed? (Lions and Tigers can inbreed but their children are sterile)...

And all of this led me to: what about a Human+Worgen? Would the child be cursed? How do two worgen do the sexual act, in human or worgen form?

Half-breeds don't need to be sterile. E.g Garona is part orc, part draenei (species from different planets) but got a son together with Medivh (a human from yet another planet).

The Worgen curse is not passed on to the child.

[maccajoe]

Ever since the announcement of the so called "Allied Races" (1) (2), I've been thinking that it's wrong they have different racials, let me explain this with every new race:

The Tauren
The only real difference between Bloodhooves and Highmountains are their horns, which, from a genetic point of view, it's just a mutation. Everything else it's pretty much the same race, even with how long these races have been separated, so both Tauren types could breed between them. So, I can understand that the Bloodhooves get an increased herbalism skill trait since they live in a vast prairie plenty of herbs and flowers, while the Highmountains get an increased mining skill because they live in a much rocky place. But the rest of the traits or racials should just be the same:
- BH get slightly more stamina, HM get slightly reduced damage taken, which is pretty much the same thing.
- BH get increased critical effects, HM get increased versatility, which is pretty much the same thing.
- They are both collector races, so the extra food trait should be given to both, imo.

And now the active skill: imagine two bodybuilders, they don't know each other and they workout differently, but they have the same body and strength, they meet and they decide to train together, one works chest one way they other doesn't know, so the former teaches the later and maybe the first time he tries he doesn't have the technic to do it correctly but since he is well trained after a couple tries he knows how to do it exactly like the first guy, and it has taken a few minutes to learn. Well, that's exactly what both War Stomp and Bull Rush are, physical skills a naturally big and strong creature can learn and master quickly, so, why don't they both get both active racials and share CD much like Goblins' Jump and Barrage?

So in my opinion, both Tauren racials should merge somehow.


The Blood Elves.
This case bugs me more. How long have been Void Elves outcast from the Blood Elves? A few months? A few years? They are still the same race, but corrupted by the void. Is that enough time to completely transform your natural YOU into something completely different to consider you a different race?
The comparison I'm gonna do here is done in a respectful way: Imagine you're a natural at playing guitar (Arcane Torrent) and for whatever reason you fall into a depression (getting in touch with the void) and you stop playing it. You are feeling so sad, you don't suddenly acquire, say, masterful skills at playing chess (Spatial Rift), it's something you must develope over a long time. This depression may corrupt your mind for a while so you get used to it (arcane and shadow resistance) but you are still you, even if it takes long, whenever you decide to play the guitar again you will still have your natural skill (Arcane Torrent) even if you sound rusty.

So I find it weird that they have different racial traits than the standard Blood Elves. (3)


The Trolls
Same argument here. As far as I know, Zandalari trolls have inhabitated many places all over Azeroth, not just Zandalar, it was a big empire after all, and although there have been many evolutions (forest trolls, sand trolls, etc...) they all belong to the same family of species, and share the same wild, savage, loa-guided tribal nature. I don't know for how long the Darkspear and the Zandalari have lost contact, but is that enough to make them different races?
Shouldn't they just share the same racial traits with maybe 1 different trait like the Tauren proffession trait?


The Draenei
The Draenei, lightforged or not, have a natural bond with the Light and the Naaru. The regular Draenei just happen to be forced to land on a different planet and start from almost zero a new civilization while they others could keep their bond up and well, get lightforged and all that stuff, but, is that enough to make them actually have different racials? I think not.

In these 4 cases, they should just merge these traits and consider them a trait update for the old races, while maybe keeping 1 or 2 traits different. (4)


When it comes to Nightborne and Dark Iron Dwarves, they have been separated (isolated?) for so long that it's only logical they have different racials, although they could still share 1 or 2 traits with the Night Elves and Bronzebeards.



(1) - Technically, what we call races in the WoW universe are species, but we've been using the term "races" for so long...

(2) - I think the name "Allied Races" is not very well-chosen. I mean, aren't orcs and trolls, or human and gnomes, allied races between them? When you join a faction you are an allied, unless you don't fully join it but more like some sort of economical or political agreement without full commitment, and as far I'm concerned, the new races join their respective factions without strings attached, and calling them Allied Races would imply they aren't fully committing to the cause. I feel it's an ambiguous term.

(3) - While writing this text wall I got this sudden thinking: can the different elven races breed between them? I guess the answer is yes since there are Half-Elves and Human share much less genetic percentage than Elves between them. This led me to: what would a NE+BE child would look like? What racials would it have? Could this mixed-Elf breed? Can Half-Elves breed? (Lions and Tigers can inbreed but their children are sterile)...

And all of this led me to: what about a Human+Worgen? Would the child be cursed? How do two worgen do the sexual act, in human or worgen form?

(PLEASE, DON'T JUDGE ME. XD)

(4) - I know that for gameplay sake, they all must have different racials as a way to incentivate players to unlock them and level them up.





TL;DR: Trolls, Taurens, Blood Elves and Draenei should share all (or most) of the racials.

Err not really it didnt take long for high elves to become blood elves and dabble in fel magic and get green eyes which is practically a nomalised trait now. Void is also volatile and corrupting and we know elves love to go head first into magic they dont understand for power.

[Syegfryed]

TL;DR: Trolls, Taurens, Blood Elves and Draenei should share all (or most) of the racials.

they don't have the same racials because they are not the same, magic together with year of isolation did this with then

zandalari are the first and ancient trolls, they obvious would be different from their offspring, with literally a millennia of changes

taurens, 10000 before gain the bless of cenarius, magic+years made then have different racials

Draeneis again, with eyars of isolation from their brothers+ infused with light

void elves are different, but the idea is the same, with the datamined information, some void guys tried some ritual with then, to tun then into etherals, but it was not totally finished, thats why their body and features included the racials changed

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Err not really it didnt take long for high elves to become blood elves

yeah, take what, one day? even prior the fel magic thing? because they rename themselves in honor of the fallen brothers killed by the scourge?

[Gaidax]

Void pretty much instantly took over and transformed Magister Umbric, as you can hear from his voiceover. It literally happened within 5 seconds and was irreversible. Change was dramatic to the point of rivaling fel blood.

[melzas]

Racials on allied races are 100% gameplay decision, to make them a little more interesting and fresh for small amount of work from the devs. You are overthinking this, these racials were added for extra flavour, not to make sense.

[Imnick]

Anyone could learn to run really fast into an enemy, so how come only Warriors can use charge and not every martial class? Or Bladestorm? Anyone could spin in a circle holding a sword. And holy priests and paladins are using the same power so they should have the same spells.

[maccajoe]

they don't have the same racials because they are not the same, magic together with year of isolation did this with then

zandalari are the first and ancient trolls, they obvious would be different from their offspring, with literally a millennia of changes

taurens, 10000 before gain the bless of cenarius, magic+years made then have different racials

Draeneis again, with eyars of isolation from their brothers+ infused with light

void elves are different, but the idea is the same, with the datamined information, some void guys tried some ritual with then, to tun then into etherals, but it was not totally finished, thats why their body and features included the racials changed

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yeah, take what, one day? even prior the fel magic thing? because they rename themselves in honor of the fallen brothers killed by the scourge?

You dont seem to understand what im saying here. Prior to the Sunwell the Blood elves (high elves) did not practice alot of fel magic if any at all. After the destruction they rushed to any magic they could including fel. As i stated it didnt take them long to be physically effected by fel gaining green eyes which is now a trait of blood elves. So once again its not hard to believe that belfs practicing void magic would not take long to get corrupted at all and have their physical appearance change as its literally happened in the past quickly as well.....

[Deleted]

Void is a grim power. It did not take long for those Blood Elves to start growing tentacles, carrying echo in their voice. It most definitely changed them on a deep level.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=JlqtDQTnQZA

[Syegfryed]

You dont seem to understand what im saying here. Prior to the Sunwell the Blood elves (high elves) did not practice alot of fel magic if any at all. After the destruction they rushed to any magic they could including fel. As i stated it didnt take them long to be physically effected by fel gaining green eyes which is now a trait of blood elves. So once again its not hard to believe that belfs practicing void magic would not take long to get corrupted at all and have their physical appearance change as its literally happened in the past quickly as well.....

the green eyes from blood elves are not all due the consume of fel magic, only a few did this, but just being around a source of fel change their eyes, yet, there are blood elves with blue eyes too, but it just a gameplay setting put all green

If the datamined thing is all true, the reason the void elves are different i due to the ritual, not exposure of void magic alone

[Deleted]

Ever since the announcement of the so called "Allied Races" (1) (2), I've been thinking that it's wrong they have different racials, let me explain this with every new race:

The Tauren
The only real difference between Bloodhooves and Highmountains are their horns, which, from a genetic point of view, it's just a mutation. Everything else it's pretty much the same race, even with how long these races have been separated, so both Tauren types could breed between them. So, I can understand that the Bloodhooves get an increased herbalism skill trait since they live in a vast prairie plenty of herbs and flowers, while the Highmountains get an increased mining skill because they live in a much rocky place. But the rest of the traits or racials should just be the same:

They spent 10.000 years on different continents. They are pretty different. One adapted to a prairie the other to cold mountains.

The Blood Elves.
This case bugs me more. How long have been Void Elves outcast from the Blood Elves? A few months? A few years? They are still the same race, but corrupted by the void. Is that enough time to completely transform your natural YOU into something completely different to consider you a different race?

Have you met the void?

The Trolls
Same argument here. As far as I know, Zandalari trolls have inhabitated many places all over Azeroth, not just Zandalar, it was a big empire after all, and although there have been many evolutions (forest trolls, sand trolls, etc...) they all belong to the same family of species, and share the same wild, savage, loa-guided tribal nature. I don't know for how long the Darkspear and the Zandalari have lost contact, but is that enough to make them different races?

Again. They spent more than 10.000 years apart. Even their bodies evolved differently. They follow the same religion, but event that's not the same. Both (or all different subraces really) follow different Loas, and those Loas can change them.

The Draenei
The Draenei, lightforged or not, have a natural bond with the Light and the Naaru. The regular Draenei just happen to be forced to land on a different planet and start from almost zero a new civilization while they others could keep their bond up and well, get lightforged and all that stuff, but, is that enough to make them actually have different racials? I think not.

The Lightforged don't just have a bond with the light. The are literally remade from Light. And again. They spent more than 25.000 years apart.


These are all big numbers. We spend a few generations in different environments we will be slightly different. And in these races' case they spent a little more than a few generations apart.

[Makorus]

How about we keep them unique?

I mean, you could argue that about every race. A human can't berserk? A human can't get bloodthirsty? A human can't be an escape artist? A gnome can't have some racial that makes him invisible while standing still?

[sam86]

Half-breeds don't need to be sterile. E.g Garona is part orc, part draenei (species from different planets) but got a son together with Medivh (a human from yet another planet).

The Worgen curse is not passed on to the child.

you need to tell Garona that then because it seems she forgot she has a son in wow
But yeah half breed can reproduce normal since ages, like the half orc we met in TBC and so many others

Err not really it didnt take long for high elves to become blood elves and dabble in fel magic and get green eyes which is practically a nomalised trait now. Void is also volatile and corrupting and we know elves love to go head first into magic they dont understand for power.

It took them few years, events between wc3 and wow are at least 4 years, add to it 1 year of vanilla (each exp usually takes 1 year time in lore) so 5 years, and they had white eyes back in wc3 time even when they started using fel energies
And the difference was extremely minor too, green eyes and became more skinny, that's it, there were hints they would change more but that didn't happen however, probably ignored/forgotten by blizz as many sub-plots about pretty much anything not orc/human in wow

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Have you met the void?

yes and every single shadow priest since vanilla wow met it too, and i don't see forsaken walk with tentacles or dwarfs walk with emo mode on, so unless blizz shit on their lore (again) about the concept of shadow priest they have fucked up big time in this point

[Mirishka]

They spent 10.000 years on different continents. They are pretty different. One adapted to a prairie the other to cold mountains.



Have you met the void?



Again. They spent more than 10.000 years apart. Even their bodies evolved differently. They follow the same religion, but event that's not the same. Both (or all different subraces really) follow different Loas, and those Loas can change them.



The Lightforged don't just have a bond with the light. The are literally remade from Light. And again. They spent more than 25.000 years apart.


These are all big numbers. We spend a few generations in different environments we will be slightly different. And in these races' case they spent a little more than a few generations apart.

Excellent reply. Could end the thread with it, honestly.

[Garfurion]

you need to tell Garona that then because it seems she forgot she has a son in wow

Everyone tries to forget her son

[Teri]

Highmountain antlers were not a mutation, it was a gift from Cenarius, there's a quest in-game that even shows that.

[maccajoe]

you need to tell Garona that then because it seems she forgot she has a son in wow
But yeah half breed can reproduce normal since ages, like the half orc we met in TBC and so many others

It took them few years, events between wc3 and wow are at least 4 years, add to it 1 year of vanilla (each exp usually takes 1 year time in lore) so 5 years, and they had white eyes back in wc3 time even when they started using fel energies
And the difference was extremely minor too, green eyes and became more skinny, that's it, there were hints they would change more but that didn't happen however, probably ignored/forgotten by blizz as many sub-plots about pretty much anything not orc/human in wow

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yes and every single shadow priest since vanilla wow met it too, and i don't see forsaken walk with tentacles or dwarfs walk with emo mode on, so unless blizz shit on their lore (again) about the concept of shadow priest they have fucked up big time in this point

You need to go back and play wc3 some belves had green eyes then and no events between fronzen throne and wow are not 4 years they 3 years at most. Also it all depends of the amount of fel consumed just simply maintaining their addiction caused them to get green eyes have you seen what fel elves look like???? Its pretty easy to say that if you went balls deep into void magic it would effect your physical appearance.

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the green eyes from blood elves are not all due the consume of fel magic, only a few did this, but just being around a source of fel change their eyes, yet, there are blood elves with blue eyes too, but it just a gameplay setting put all green

If the datamined thing is all true, the reason the void elves are different i due to the ritual, not exposure of void magic alone

Errr whats your point exactly? My point is thats its not unreasonable to expect physical changes in elves because they exposed themselves to void magic as its literally been show in the past that they have had there appearance changed by mere proxy?
I dont know why you are telling me this.

[Syegfryed]

Errr whats your point exactly? My point is thats its not unreasonable to expect physical changes in elves because they exposed themselves to void magic as its literally been show in the past that they have had there appearance changed by mere proxy?
I dont know why you are telling me this.

i am saying there is not psychical difference between high and blood elves and they did not become other race because of fel magic

and im saying the blood elves did not become void elves just because they played with the void

[sam86]

You need to go back and play wc3 some belves had green eyes then and no events between fronzen throne and wow are not 4 years they 3 years at most. Also it all depends of the amount of fel consumed just simply maintaining their addiction caused them to get green eyes have you seen what fel elves look like???? Its pretty easy to say that if you went balls deep into void magic it would effect your physical appearance.

1) then u go check the login screen of the 'human' campaign in wc3 tft, u can see clearly that the magic breaker eyes were pearl white, not blue, not green, white, and that was in Outland, where Fel is pretty much everywhere
2) U ignored that every shadow priest is 'deep balls' in void since ever, yet it never changed them on physical level, so explain this, and yes using void magic as shadow priest is a stable lore fact since ages, as confirmed by recently priest campaign quest in legion (the human female u save her was using shadow since the time of wc1, yet she still looks human for example)

[McFuu]

You need to go back and play wc3 some belves had green eyes then and no events between fronzen throne and wow are not 4 years they 3 years at most. Also it all depends of the amount of fel consumed just simply maintaining their addiction caused them to get green eyes have you seen what fel elves look like???? Its pretty easy to say that if you went balls deep into void magic it would effect your physical appearance.

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Errr whats your point exactly? My point is thats its not unreasonable to expect physical changes in elves because they exposed themselves to void magic as its literally been show in the past that they have had there appearance changed by mere proxy?
I dont know why you are telling me this.

Blood Elves are high elves, the exposure to different types of magic have changed their appearance slightly. Void elves are something else, they undergo a ritual of some sort, basically bootleg demon Hunters.