Why was C'thun pre-nerf "Impossible"?

[Shoob]

Red Eye lazer = Lots of dead downies

'HAHHA ITS A PRETTY LAZER, awwwwww im dead, brez pls'

[Kungemil]

There are loads of way to bypass things just look at the rogue soloing Patchwerk and Grobb. Just because it was smart doesn't mean it isn't bugging a fight. If you're using something from outside of the raid like that pet to get past a part of a fight, you're exploiting it. Doesn't matter if it was smart, it is still exploiting.

It is still smart?

[antonatsis]

1st)yes the pet was called disgusting oozeling

2nd)i don't have any screen-shot but you can understand how nihilum/ensidia think and act if you were around on the HM LK ban they had were they were ranting for 10 or something hours that they didn't exploit the fight and after that time they said "yes we did it but we didn't knew it as an exploit/cheat"(yeah right you didn't knew what you were doing you are 12 year old kids that are innocent :P )

3rd)don't know if its smart clever stupid or right/wrong i never cared who killed fist a boss or something BUT on the matter of nihilum/ensidia when the lost the world first kill on yog from the US guild that got banned(cant remember the name)because they exploited their GM kungen wrote a blog judging that guild for exploiting a world first fight and how wrong it is and blah blah blah(or to put it this way he was bitching because he didn't thought that thing first :P and since he lost the world first by stars he had to retake a 1st in ICC :P by any means :P )
(somebody must tell me how to make multiple quotes :P )

[Asrialol]

If its true that Nihilum used an in-game pet which removes buffs, its still not exploiting.. It's clever use of game mechanics.. (Unless it was a bug).. The difference between the kill on LK is that there was a bug that they misused..

The debuff didn't remove the debuffs, back then there was a debuff limit. You could only have about 20 debuffs, so by spamming the Oozeling macro (Whom kungen had a freaking large icon on a bar in his UI), you can pretty much push off all debuffs, thus you can stay in the stomach for ever and DPS the tentacles down there, which greatly reduces the difficulty of the fight.

[Flabb]

Cos Ouro spawned inside

[SoarLock]

A bug which should have been fixed before hand.

[Sarcasm]

Is it our fault Elitist Jerks live by math laws and think they can count everything, even equation for wealth and good sex?;> Maths=/=skill and Maths=/=reality... C'thun prenerf was really unkillable, not only math-wise...

Bolded the part that I lost it at. Quoted the rest because it was a hilarious read.

[Deleted]

Quit spreading rumors already.

Sure, they may have exploited C'thun but we can't know for sure as you pick your macro icons yourself, if you want to, so that dashing oozeling icon could've simply been a "PULLING" macro. Albeit, that may be far fetched but acting like a rumorfuled mob is just idiotic.

Vashj; Bug, but personally I'm not convinced it was intentional exploitation.

LK; It was normal mode, not hardmode. At the time little information existed on the encounter and it's quite safe to assume that due to attempt limits, timepreassure and general urge to kill him, they didn't much bother to check what was going on when the otherwise falling ice stayed up.

But nothing of the above will stop a judgemental ass from being a judgemental ass (Irony, right?), and I'll probably get called a fanboy, but I'm confident that anyone with atleast half a brain shares this train of thought.

[Deleted]

To the ones who claim that C'thun pre-hotfix would be killable today with current game knowledge should just shut the fuck up.

Obviously you have no clue whatsoever of what you are talking about.

Phase 1 was normal, any raiding guild could manage that phase.

Phase 2 was the bugged one.

First, both of the large tentacles could spawn inside the surrounding walls, and since you could not reach them inside walls more of them spawned.
Second, the lazer beam from eye tentacles was also bugged. It could instantly vaporize half of the raid even tho you had your ranged checked for linking. Its an effect of being spawned inside a wall.
Third, in the stomach it was quite common both large and small tentacles spawned on the drop point. So if you were standing inside fighting one of the targets you could instadie by a tentacle spawning on you, and that could happen with 40 people alive.

Now, if you were flasked, world buffs, playing extreamly carefull and well AND having extreme luck you could get him down to ~50% but then the bugs of the fight came back to haunt you in some awfull way.

Nihilum was the first guild to kill him because their server was the ONLY one in europe with hotfix on tuesday.

Our guild tried to kill him the same evening as nihilum did, but we had not recieved any hotfix.
Day after C'thun went down on our first try without flasks/world buffs and then ouro directly after. (Ouro world 2nd europe 1st just to brag on ze internet)

P.S. Flasking the entire raid wasnt new in AQ40.

[Arnan]

Actually on topic, yeah, it was bugged. But really, aproximately 9 seconds (I counted in my head!) got me here:

http://www.wowwiki.com/C'Thun_(tactics)

[Kalokagathos]

The debuff didn't remove the debuffs, back then there was a debuff limit. You could only have about 20 debuffs, so by spamming the Oozeling macro (Whom kungen had a freaking large icon on a bar in his UI), you can pretty much push off all debuffs, thus you can stay in the stomach for ever and DPS the tentacles down there, which greatly reduces the difficulty of the fight.

Ah, now it makes sense.. Well.. Nothing to do about it now.

[Gish]

bear in mind that they have done the same think with various more bosses like lady vashj twin eredars and hodir hard mode(they claimed that because it was impossible to kill him they had to cheat/exploit/"enter the word you like here") and Lich King heroic up till LK they never had any problems with blizzard and their cheating but on arthas they all got banned for 72 hours or something like that!

Call it cheating if you must but it was a bug on blizzard's side which they should have picked up on in the PTR, ensidia even showed the rogues logs from alot of fights and the saronite bombs he used were his normal rotation.

If its true that Nihilum used an in-game pet which removes buffs, its still not exploiting.. It's clever use of game mechanics.. (Unless it was a bug).. The difference between the kill on LK is that there was a bug that they misused..

It was indeed a bug because at the time you could only have a certain amount of debuffs (24 I beleive) and kungen (the tank) stacked the oozling's debuff on him 24 times and then did it again when the boss did his debuff to knock it off, which is indeed a bug, not a clever use of game mechanics.

I remember reading somewhere Nihilum killed him the night before the nerf by flasking the entire raid (which was a totally new concept back then).

No-one ever killed him before the hotfix, but nihilum did kill him a few hours after it, and to everyone saying it was a nerf, just no, the boss fight was fixed it was never meant to work the way it did when it was "impossible" he was never meant to spawn tentacles in his weakened state.

[brirrspliff]

I remember reading somewhere Nihilum killed him the night before the nerf by flasking the entire raid (which was a totally new concept back then).

rofl, obviously you have not the slightest clue. did you start with wow in 2009?! a flask was mandatory in all old raids from day one on (hi molten core). flasks were much more powerful than today, giving you around +150 spellpower when i recall correctly, while your gear gave you only maybe +300 or something like that.

don't make up "facts" and try to sell them to people that are even newer to the game, trying to make yourself look like a "veteran" while talking BS.

[Deleted]

rofl, obviously you have not the slightest clue. did you start with wow in 2009?! a flask was mandatory in all old raids from day one on (hi molten core). flasks were much more powerful than today, giving you around +150 spellpower when i recall correctly, while your gear gave you only maybe +300 or something like that.

don't make up "facts" and try to sell them to people that are even newer to the game, trying to make yourself look like a "veteran" while talking BS.

Indeed, its really sad to see how many wannabes there are here

[jb226]

Maths=/=skill and Maths=/=reality

Well I was going to make a sensible reply, but then I realized that XKCD already did it for me:

[deevicoos]

Maths isn't reality. Maths is a totally perfect set of measurements but at any scale we can understand things, almost nothing is as perfect as maths itself. And that includes reality. Maths is basically a toolset and understanding the toolset, it does not equate to reality.

Also as far as "creative use of game mechanics" goes. Non combat pets should be provide a combat pets should not help you fight. It's in the name. When you know something isn't working as planned but exploit round it and do the fight knowing it's not as intended, you deserve a ban, it's in the ToS. You should ticket blizzard ASAP. Not consider how you're going to kill bosses with it.

[gcsmith]

To who ever posted it. Using things from outside the instance is not Exploiting if its allowed, surely using flasks are exploiting as they are not the grulls lair special ones. However, what annoys me is when Nihilium and Ensidia as they are now exploit fights and say there was nothing wrong because they told blizz, and still claim world first for that kill, THEN go and get other guilds banned for exploiting fights just cus they hadnt done it, and cmon The people who used freya buff to kill hodir, Last I checked Spellstealing buffs is legit, shame ensidia are too high and mighty. However, they do seem ok in their interviews, I just wish they allowed others to use their same tactics, the sheer hypocrasy stinks.

[Nerph-]

I remember reading somewhere Nihilum killed him the night before the nerf by flasking the entire raid (which was a totally new concept back then).

Really? How about not replying if you're just going to talk bullshit. Flasking happened from in the beginning of raiding back at MC and BWL.

[Aurile]

Actually on topic, yeah, it was bugged. But really, aproximately 9 seconds (I counted in my head!) got me here:

http://www.wowwiki.com/C'Thun_(tactics)

A broken page?

[Runenwächter]

if you earn your money by playing wow you will be under a lot of pressure. that leads to using any and everything available to you, even if it is moraly desputable. the saronite bombs on lk is only one of many many such examples. there was a long and lively discussion over this and in the end of rolling out the evidence and looking at the looks every gumba could see that it was indeed intentional use of an exploit or a game mechanic that obviously was not intended to work in that manner.

comparing vanilla with wotlk is very problematic in my opinion. not only was the game and the percetion of it in the community a totaly different one than today, blizzards approach to all its aspects (at least the ones we discuss in here) was very very different.

whenever a eu guild does a firstkill before the us it makes me laugh. us servers are always up after maintenance or patching before eu servers. so once in the history of wow the later downtime of the servers in the eu proved to be a advantage. whats so hilarious about it, is that you could actually hear a community complain about it