For the heroic Immerseus fight, can dps dispel themselves of the debuff? Or is it like Sha of Pride where the fight mechanics dictate that only healers can do it?
We downed heroic Norushen the week before last and this Thursday will be making our first real attempts at Immerseus hopefully. My plan is to form a conga line of five groups (with two people in each group) so that we are stepping to the left together. Warrior tank will take Immerseus first and run out of the group for the blast. He’ll come back in with vengeance and be ready to drop mocking banner and skull banner for the adds. All dps will stay on Immerseus except the hunter who will misdirect to the warrior tank and the two of them will mow down the adds. Pally tank will tank Immerseus from there on out, hopefully not getting more than two stacks of the corruption blast.
With this strat, both the healers and majority of dps only need to worry about managing stacks of the debuff. If the dps can cleanse themselves, there will be less people the healers have to worry about. I like this model because I want to stress self-accountability… YOU are responsible for managing your stacks of the debuff. Either self-dispel or stand still and let them fall off if need be, but either way YOU are responsible for whether you live or die.
Any feedback on the strat?
Next up will be Protectors which I’ve not yet research much. I know we have to be sure to interrupt the blasts from Gloom and I’ll probably setup the raid frames to have five groups or two and call out the groups one after the other of who will be responsible for the interrupts. Probably also change the boss order from Rook-He-Sun to Rook-Sun-He and be ready for a plan of raid wide defensives for Sun’s raid wide ability (that is failing me right now). May also try to bring He and Sun down together and stack under bubble. Any other tips anyone has before I start researching and putting together a more concrete plan?
It seems like you're trying to complicate an already incredibly simple mechanic for H Immersius. Don't worry about dispelling as much as just having your DPS make sure they keep an eye on their stacks(2-3 at most for progression) and then just AoEing adds until the debuff wears off. That's all there really is to it. Healers can just cleanse whenever they can, but not prioritize it.
Basically have anyone capable of interrupting focus on the Gloom as all 3 adds share HP on Heroic, so it doesn't matter which of the 3 adds your DPS is attacking. Should only really need 2 people to actually maintain an interrupt rotation, the rest are just backup interrupts. For Sun's bubble phase we just tanked the other two on the two adds that spawn outside the bubble and had the raid loosely stack at the edge of the bubble on the side facing where Rook is being tanked so that when he jumps to the raid to do his kick the raid can run out of it without leaving the bubble. We never bothered to have multiple phases happen at the same time during progression, and I wouldn't recommend it really. Our DPS order was He-Rook-Sun.
isn't the ability just ignorable on 25 men? given that so many hit it, the limited amount of stacks gets distributed and runs out without really doing any harm. on 10 men we have people go to 6 stacks, dispell and go up again. the one time I did it on 25 men, no one cared and 3-4 stacks were max, which you can just completely ignore. burn some raid healing CDs and that's it.
otherwise, yeah, it's a normal magic debuff. warlock dispell is pretty good. can also mass dispell it if you want to stack up that much. admittedly, my 25 men experience is very limited but it looked to me like you just completely ignore that ability.
Pretty much what Garrod said, just don't over complicate it. I'm assuming you're a 10m so just have people pop a personal CD if they go over 5 stacks and switch onto AoEing the adds until it resets. Top tip to help your tank out here would be to arrange mocking banners / AoE grips / druid tornado things to help pull all the adds to the tanks at least for the initial couple where the boss has almost the full 50 stacks. Will make your tanks job a bunch easier to pick up aggro, keeps them grouped up for better AoEing and helps to reduce how much they run around wailing on people which can easily cause deaths if they have 4-5 stacks of debuff as well.
You mentioned you had a Pally tank, make him tank Gloom. With his single target interrupt, shield throw (forget name) interrupt and reset procs on that as well he can solo it if he's lucky. Bit of communication between him and the rest of the interrupters and it should mean you never run out even with limited short CD interrupt classes. The order on the bosses doesn't make a difference, since they all will gain in difficulty to the same degree at some point in the fight. Prioritizing one over another earlier on will just push their high power to later on instead of earlier on.
When I was doing 10mans the biggest help on Protectors was to make sure people were loosely spread but still staying inside the passive healing circles. It really does help to keep on top of bleeds that are going around and any dots from Sun (which need to be dispelled immediately so they don't spread).
Same as Garrod, I wouldn't recommend pushing transition on more than 1 boss at a time for progression, especially not He. You will no doubt run out of people who have CDs to be able to tank the mob in 10man if you have stuff there to AoE at the same time, so you want it focused down ASAP.
Locks who sac an imp can get rid of one stack of the debuff, and mages I think can alter time it off. Other then that do a single conga line with the boss tank a piece away for the breath thing. As well, success and failure can be determined on where the swirls come from. If they pop right on or just about to hit your group then you will have lower boss damage overall. Additionally make sure you have your dps spread out during the split phase. For there is the possibility of a bunch of the black blobs to appear on the other side of the room.
It is ridiculous the difference between 25M and 10M H Imm., 25 man you have 50 adds out in the blink of an eye and all day to DPS Imm. w/o gaining stacks because adds are out, whereas on 10 man the stacks force DPS off Imm. and it ends up taking so long that by the time you have 50 adds out, he is resetting for another 50.
In 25 man, it would be a miracle if anyone got over 2 stacks if you had all healers do one single target attack.
So on 10 you need a strategy to get those adds out ASAP, have your healers each get in one single target attack. Your MW monk(s) can hit Detox and remove the stacks from everyone within 40 yards. That should make it easy for your group. Use two MW monks, have the first one Detox when stacks are at 3, have the second one Detox when the stacks hit 3 again. That should give you 3 adds for healers, 6-8 for two tanks, and 40 (15 twice at 3 stack, an 10 once at 2 stack) for DPS in short order.
Try moving to the right instead, that way you can step thru Swirl and not accidentally step into a puddle taking more damage.
Yeah I’ve killed him a few times in a 25m group and completely agree with the vast difference. The debuff stacks aren’t even something that has to be considered in a 25m. TBH, I’m half tempted to just kill him in a 25m group as we have two 10m teams that have cleared Normals. (schedule is of course the issue)
Stacked Detox will definitely be key. If we can keep just the tank and hunter on adds, all the other dps can stay on boss and keep the adds coming. MW monks can keep them detoxed. That would be 1 tank, 1 dps, and 3 healers only on adds, leaving 5 dps focused on boss. So it would basically be three waves of ~15 adds. Since undoubtedly there will be times when more than 3 stacks are applied, I’d guess we’d get 50 in three waves. And can throw down stormlash at first wave and skull banner at third to make sure they are taken care of quickly. I like the way this is coming together. Good tip on moving right btw, I’ve adjusted my notes.
This is the way we did it:
2 tanks, 3 healers, 5 DPS.
All DPS (and tanks) get to 4 stacks and approximate 25 adds spawn.
We then AOE all these adds.
Then we go back on boss and pop the remaining 25 adds on the same way
We then AOE all these adds
In regards to dispelling. I believe warlocks can use Unbound Will (talent) in order to reset their stack, so they can take 5 stacks if they feel like it.
Mages can you invisibility(?) to get rid of stacks and several other classes can remove their own stacks aswell.
Make sure you assign people to positions so they move there in transition phase.
Also regarding defensive cooldowns we used them on swirls since it was the only risk we had of anyone dying.
If you 3 heal it you can alternatively have a healer standing on the left side of the tank (and the raid the right side) so he wont have to dodge that many things and can focus on keeping the tank alive while the 2 other healers focus on the rai
Thaylen, you say you have a paladin tank but the warrior is going to do the adds on hc immerseus?
We have also a war and paka tank. If the paladin gets the first blasy he should use WoG/EF for healing aggro. The adds just swarm to him. While a warrior can use his taunt banner not for all the add waves, making his job quite a lot harder.
If you have a priest in your comp, you can also ask him to use his Mass Dispell when people have ~3-4 stacks (usually after the boss have spawned pool for the second time during P1) and your healer can dispell individually if someone missed the Mass Dispell.
That way, when our dps switch on the adds, the boss has almost no stack left.
@Dastey – This was the tactic we tried to the first night when we just took a couple pulls to “get a look”. The look we got was one of absolute chaos though. Part of devising a strat is knowing your raid and it’s strengths/weaknesses and for us one of our weaknesses are fights that can erupt into chaos because of adds (i.e. Tortos, General Naz, etc). Having everyone switch to the adds causes a break in formation (particularly melee) and before you know there are puddles all over the place (and hence people all over). So I’m trying to minimize that risk by everyone focusing more on their position (more or less). It may (and probably will) still just end in people all over the place but I want to give it a shot.
@Aneskh – Very true and having the pally take the first blast and then tank the adds was my first thought too. There is no question that he would have the best threat with the EF ticking. I switched my thoughts on that though because I also think that if one of the tanks had to take up to three blasts, the Pally is the more probable to survive them with ardent defender, cloak, etc basically saving a death. Plus with the riposte of the warrior, he can probably do the best dps on the adds (though it is arguable since the pally would probably have constant shields to throw). The warrior has the mocking banner, plus we have the hunter with misdirect and rogue with tricks of the trade so threat shouldn’t be an issue for the warrior either. Minimizing tank swaps is just another way for me to try to minimize risk of chaos.
@Senen – Mass Dispel would be awesome for sure. Unfortunately we don’t have a priest in our normal makeup (the real life monster stole our star disc priest away from us a few months ago :/ )
- - - Updated - - -
FWIW, here is the detailed strat I wrote up for the group: (probably overkill yes, but an ounce of prevention/planning is worth a pound of cure)
Raid unit groups:
• Four groups to signify where to run when Immerseus goes under:
o Group 1 – Tanks and rDruid – This group will stay on back platform for blobs
o Group 2 – MW (Birii), Shaman, Warlock – Run to right side of Immer for blobs
o Group 3 – MW (John), Hunter – Run to left side of Immer for blobs
o Group 4 – Feral, Rogue – Run to opposite side of room for dps blobs
Formation:
• Create a single file line 5 deep (meaning two people will stand together in each group) at the right hand side of the large platform in the back. Markers to be set for tank starting positions.
o Groups will be stepping RIGHT as puddles appear.
• Groups: (starting from near boss and going to ranged)
o Group 1: Prot Warrior, Prot Pally. (note that warrior will actually start away from group to take first corrosive blast, then come back to stand with Rogue) (Prot Pally will run from group during after swirls for corrosive blasts)
o Group 2: Rogue, Feral. (Rogue can Tricks tank to pick up adds. Smoke bomb if needed) (Feral – Nature’s Swiftness healing?)
o Group 3: MW (John), Shaman.
o Group 4: MW (Birii), Warlock
o Group 5: Hunter, rDruid. (Hunter to misdirect adds to prot tank) (rDruid as far from adds as possible (high threat))
Fight:
Beginning to first corrosive blast:
• Hero and pre-pot at pull. Drop Stormlash. Prot warrior away from first group to take the first corrosive blast and pulls with Shattering Throw.
• Rest of raid in the Conga line. Step right, quickly together, when puddles appear.
Corrosive Blast to Swirl:
• Prot Warrior returns to group, Prot Pally taunts boss.
• DPS WATCH THEIR DEBUFF S DON’T GO OVER 3-4 stacks
o At 3-4 stacks (1st wave of adds), dps stop dps’ing until debuff cleared (can dps adds IF tank clearly has threat)
o MW monk (John) hits revival to clear debuff stacks. Remainders dispeled
o Prot Warrior drops mocking banner to collect adds, hunter hits misdirect if needed
o Prot warrior drops skull banner when adds are on him
o All DPS except hunter stay single target on boss. Hunter focuses adds with Prot Warrior
o Misdirect/Tricks of Trade Prot Warrior as needed for successive groups of adds
o Healing tide totems and Rallying Cry as needed for successive groups of adds
• Continue to mind your position and step right together as puddles form
Swirl:
• Avoid blue swirls but don’t go running all over the place. Retain same general position.
• If waterfall isn’t going to hit group, maintain positioning
• If waterfall is going to come around and hit group, run to the back of the back platform to range waterfall
• If waterfall begins near group, run to the right initially to avoid it and then return to original position
• At end of Swirl, Pally tank to run away from the group to receive corrosive blast
Transition:
• As Immer transitions under water, group spreads out around the room to deal with dps/healing blobs based on raid groups
o Stampeding roar
• As blobs reach the center, be ready to use Devo and individual cooldowns
Post Transition (Immer re-appears):
• Re-form conga line on original marker – Tranq may be needed to heal everyone up.
• Prot warrior separate from group for 1st corrosive blast
• use 2nd pots for focused dps on him until corrosive blast (stacks of debuff)
• Mocking banner and skull banner as before. Rinse and repeat as done in first phase.
Asking your warprot to drop his Mocking Banner and shortly after his Skull Banner will make his Mocking Banner almost useless.
I prefer to drop my Skull Banner on the pull and use my Mocking Banner for his full duration, especially as the adds may take some time to pop and reach your group.
I include the Swirl in our strat as it's usually a perfect time to let the stacks fall and switch on the adds (again, we Mass Dispell once before that so it's a perfect time for us, maybe not for everybody) AND asking everybody to go the back of the room at every Swirl is a good habit to avoid random death and help the tank (me ) to get all the adds in one go.
Probably not a strat that all groups would love, but it works for us so I mention it.
Also, you should use Stampeding Roar really early in p2. If I'm correct, the healing blobs are counted as friendly and as such can be affected by Stampeding Roar, you don't want that. (I was told that by our drood, I haven't checked if that is correct but that makes sense so I assumed it was.)
@Senen - Good point on the banners. I was thinking use the mocking banner until the adds are grouped on you, then drop the skull as you'll keep threat with your aoe... but you are right, there will be adds spawning fairly continuously. Will have to think on that more. Also interesting insight on the swirl being part of the strat. That would work well if the timing works out that way. And I'd never heard about the Roar affecting the blue blobs... funny. And definitely not something you'd want. Great feedback, thank you!
Basically, with our Mass Dispell strat, our shadow dispell a few seconds after the second set of pool, then we start moving backward to the stairs. That way, the people have 2-3 stacks when they get out of range, the swirl don't hit us, the adds are all in the same place and there are enough adds for the dps to switch to them until the end of the swirl (and/or until their stacks fade).
We actually have one of our dps use his alt priest for that, but this strat is so smooth we don't really want to change it now.
I like it. I like it a lot. Raids are like sequenced dances, once you now the moves and the timing of the moves, you just flow through them like a breeze. Knowing that the 2nd puddle is about the time to hit the mass dispel (revival for us) and that the swirl will be on us before we need to dispel again is some major insight.
Now I just need to find a healer/dps hybrid to help us out tomorrow night. Our regular is out and so is our backup. Just as I was getting all jazzed up to give this a whirl too!
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) to get all the adds in one go.
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