Camouflage and its Draenor Perks

[Snakez]

This is nothing new. You still had threat on the mob, Camo doesn't wipe threat.

This will only be proven/disproven by actual pvp testing, but with the glyph I suspect it'll act like Subterfuge does currently, which is a big no-no.

That would be cool as fuck tho, to be an invisible shooter.

[Arcanimus]

That would be cool as fuck tho, to be an invisible shooter.

Umm...

Just logged into beta to test this: Camo glyph functions as Subterfuge for Survival.

Nerf inc.

This is a thing.

[Kaeth]

Just logged into beta to test this: Camo glyph functions as Subterfuge for Survival.

Nerf inc.

But if it's only available to the spec with little or no burst and whose only pseudo-burst is tied to a completely dispellable DoT with a 24-second cooldown, it might not be so overpowered. Now, if BM had the Camo perk, however, that'd be nerf bait of the highest order.

[DeicideUH]

But if it's only available to the spec with little or no burst and whose only pseudo-burst is tied to a completely dispellable DoT with a 24-second cooldown, it might not be so overpowered. Now, if BM had the Camo perk, however, that'd be nerf bait of the highest order.

True, but tuning hasn't happened yet, and Surv may still get a CD. We dp 't know how powerful will Explosive Shot be in the end.

Also, 6s untargetable, stealthy, regenerating state every minute sounds OP, regardless of class.

[Xar226]

Better nerf it, can't let huntards have actual defenses now can we?

You mean like Disengage, (glyphed) Deterrence, Feign Death (admittedly a small one), Freezing and Snake Traps, Concussive Shot, Wyvern Sting, one of [pet roots, pet stuns, or pet disarms], silencing shot, explosive trap knockbacks, and scatter shot?

Maybe the WoD changes hit you hard enough that you need an 18% heal every minute. I don't know. But to get that defensive that somebody suggests being unattackable while you're unloading on somebody and healing for one GCD every minute is overpowered seems rather a stretch to me. The only class I can think of who can get close to that might be a rogue, who will need to pop Evasion (2m), Cloak of Shadows (1m), and Recuperate for the same benefit you're getting and thus spend two cooldowns, 1-5 combo points and whatever energy it took to generate them before he can start to pewpew. And we all know how nobody complains about rogues being OP.

Edit: Maybe this is needed and maybe it's not, but let's not pretend it isn't a BIG cooldown that should be examined as such.

[Arcanimus]

You mean like Disengage, (glyphed) Deterrence, Feign Death (admittedly a small one), Freezing and Snake Traps, Concussive Shot, Wyvern Sting, one of [pet roots, pet stuns, or pet disarms], silencing shot, explosive trap knockbacks, and scatter shot?

Disengage only counts as a defensive against melee, and barely that with all the gap closers.
Deterrence does zilch against DoTs, and we can't even attack during it.
Freezing Trap: CC is a defense now?
Snake Trap, Uh, this is more a detractor than a defense. Warriors *used to* be able to proc Victory Rush from them, their damage is pitiful, and they die in a single aoe attack.
Concussive Shot is not a defensive ability.
Wyvern Sting DRs with Freezing Trap. Might as well just say Binding Shot is the only option on the tier if you don't want to DR yourself.
Pet CC's have 2 minute plus cooldowns. I would rather have a damage buff than a pre-DR'd CC.
Silencing Shot is available to 1 spec, and is barely useful even to that spec. I can count on a single hand the number of situations it could be considered a defensive ability.
Explosive Trap knockback is an edge case at best. It's better used as an offensive knockback, though.
Scatter Shot might as well just read The hunter is dazed for 2 seconds while he lines up his trap after casting this ability. To count it as a defense is to say the hunter has already lost.

I count one hard defense and three soft defense abilities.
Deterrence - Hard
Narrow Escape - Soft (getting softer)
Roar of Sacrifice - Soft
Bringing friends - Soft (because you're still gonna be unloaded on, being the squish target you are)

Comparing this to a rogue:
Evasion - Hard
Cloak of Shadows - Hard
Vanish - Hard
Combat Readiness - Hard
Cheat Death - Hard
Blind - Soft
Gouge - Soft

Bit of an imbalance there. and thats not even all of rogues defensive abilities if we were to list things off with your "defensive" criteria. If I were to do that, I'd be typing for an hour easily.

As for me being "defensive" about it: Its going to get nerfed. I know its going to get nerfed. If it goes live it'll take all of 1 hour before a hotfix rolls out either removing the glyph or making it not work for Survival.

[Illana]

6 seconds is pretty op tbh, i fully expect a nerf somewhere along the line.

[A dot Ham]

It isn’t pure coincidence that season after season xpac after xpac that rogues dominate in PvP and shine in 2s and 3s.

They aren’t making the game for us, they are making it for themselves.

I have given up on trying to call out for equality and bring attention to how vastly superior melee is to ranged in PvP.

We got a little too close to that equality in MoP which is why casting while moving is being taken away.

The age old class archetypes and advantages and disadvantages to playing ranged/casting classes vs melee classes (that are present in every other game) are not present in WoW. Melee > everything else

[Illana]

you mean warriors> all melee and wizards> everything else

[Bisso]

Yea.. it'll mainly be a case for survival to use that -10% magic dmg taken Glyph.. for 6 seconds and still able to dps, AND 18% healed.
Perhaps (PVE) there will be a few things that.. by being camo'd, you can't be targeted by it.. and so having a 6 sec window for it will be nice.

About that, I wonder if this could be use to pull an add or something, a bit like a deathgrip that instead just force the mob to run to you. If he can't target you with range attacks, he will have to run, just like if you dispelled him, right? Nothing game changing, but if it happens, I know there will be some occasion I will use it.