WoD Beta: DW Frost Skill Cap Further Lowered?

[Coalbane]

So I did some limited testing on beta as DW Frost. I'm hoping I made an error that you guys can point out to me. It appears our basic priority will revolve around:

- Using Soul Reaper under 35%. Even on live, I use an addon to help me determine when to use SR instead of HB, which isn't often but it's not like this adds an extra button to my bar or anything. The buff to SR in WoD just makes it a no-brainer now.

- Using Frost/Death runes on Howling Blast. No big surprise there.

- Using Runic Power on Frost Strike. No big surprise there either.

- Using Unholy Runes on Obliterate. Assuming Necrotic Plague remains the level 100 talent of choice, we won't be using Plague Strike (HB will apply NP and NP eliminates Frost Fever and Blood Plague). DnD also did not seem worth using on a single target compared to Obliterate, which has been buffed. This actually reduced the skill cap further because, at least on live, there was a choice for your unholy runes depending on current resource regeneration speed and DnD was almost always worth throwing down.

Is that really where we are with this spec? I can only hope Breath of Sindragosa was the intended choice for frost dks and will be buffed to a competitive level with NP, but this whole spec seemed rather empty.

[tru]

Well if NP eliminates PS and makes the rotation even more simplified I dont really see what the problem is as long as the other options are competitive.
Its the same issue with Blood tap its another button you have to use properly to do well and it outperforms the other choices some but ive never used it and im happy with what I pull.

Typical stuff someone will do the math that says DnD worth dropping if it can hit 3 targets for at least 1/2 its duration blah blah. I wouldnt worry about it atm. Masterfrost isn't exactly a spec/rotation to say "is that really where we are" insinuating that its bad when its very simple to begin with you gain a new Lv 100 talent/ability and you lost one weak ability used for nothing more than applying your weakest dot that use to buff your Oblit damage which was low on the totem poll anyway for that spec.

[valliant13]

So I did some limited testing on beta as DW Frost. I'm hoping I made an error that you guys can point out to me. It appears our basic priority will revolve around:

- Using Soul Reaper under 35%. Even on live, I use an addon to help me determine when to use SR instead of HB, which isn't often but it's not like this adds an extra button to my bar or anything. The buff to SR in WoD just makes it a no-brainer now.

- Using Frost/Death runes on Howling Blast. No big surprise there.

- Using Runic Power on Frost Strike. No big surprise there either.

- Using Unholy Runes on Obliterate. Assuming Necrotic Plague remains the level 100 talent of choice, we won't be using Plague Strike (HB will apply NP and NP eliminates Frost Fever and Blood Plague). DnD also did not seem worth using on a single target compared to Obliterate, which has been buffed. This actually reduced the skill cap further because, at least on live, there was a choice for your unholy runes depending on current resource regeneration speed and DnD was almost always worth throwing down.

Is that really where we are with this spec? I can only hope Breath of Sindragosa was the intended choice for frost dks and will be buffed to a competitive level with NP, but this whole spec seemed rather empty.

We will be using death runes on HB and frost/unholy on obliterate. OB isn't a single rune strike

[Coalbane]

We will be using death runes on HB and frost/unholy on obliterate. OB isn't a single rune strike

It doesn't matter which rune (frost or death) you pair up with the unholy rune for Ob, since either can be used for HB. The idea is just not to waste runes by sitting on any too long.

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Well if NP eliminates PS and makes the rotation even more simplified I dont really see what the problem is as long as the other options are competitive.

The problem is that there is less opportunity for great players to distinguish themselves from average ones, which makes the game less fun for the great players. I don't see this as a positive direction for the game.

Its the same issue with Blood tap its another button you have to use properly to do well and it outperforms the other choices some but ive never used it and im happy with what I pull.

There are players who simply macro Blood Tap into Frost Strike, removing any decision making. Sadly, I doubt the different in dps between someone who does that and someone who actively manages Blood Tap usage is very much.

Typical stuff someone will do the math that says DnD worth dropping if it can hit 3 targets for at least 1/2 its duration blah blah. I wouldnt worry about it atm. Masterfrost isn't exactly a spec/rotation to say "is that really where we are" insinuating that its bad when its very simple to begin with you gain a new Lv 100 talent/ability and you lost one weak ability used for nothing more than applying your weakest dot that use to buff your Oblit damage which was low on the totem poll anyway for that spec.

The theorycrafting and means for squeezing out even a little more dps are important to some players like me. They may not matter much to you and that's fine.

[Deleted]

There are players who simply macro Blood Tap into Frost Strike, removing any decision making. Sadly, I doubt the different in dps between someone who does that and someone who actively manages Blood Tap usage is very much.

In DPS there isn't. But in usefulness there is. It's often a good idea to sacrifice some of your sustained dps for a situation thats coming up shortly, like AE bursting down adds where it's always a good idea to bank some charges for that. Not to mention it's implications in PvP.

[Raikh]

In DPS there isn't. But in usefulness there is. It's often a good idea to sacrifice some of your sustained dps for a situation thats coming up shortly, like AE bursting down adds where it's always a good idea to bank some charges for that. Not to mention it's implications in PvP.

Relatively easy doable while macroing it. We're talking about max 2 runes, including gcd locked states this is not much and can be generated through slight delays and timing on spending runes. Its also way less risky than unmacroing it and messing things up throughout the fight.
Unmacroed BT brings absolutely minimal gains for every situation. I would describe it rather as an optional playstyle than something that is really better at any point.

@Thread
How exactly can frost dw get any simpler than mastersimple? You'd have to remove most abilities to do that.
Obliterate usage with likely comign tuning is way more frequent than now, so you have way less one sided Hb spamming than now.
SR is actually a thing now and no ability to be ignored in most cases, so thats a plus, too.
They hinted that KM might finally become somethng we care about to some degree. CG possibly also, but thats entirely open.

NP stacking fast is also a gain and intelligent PL usage on NP is also pretty interesting.

Its not changed much so far, but apparently its not getting easier in the slightest. Mostly because its simply not really possible without removing most abilities.

[lilucky136]

This was with my own testing with CG... Considering I thought CG and RI was already the best combo... Also I want to point out that numbers haven't been tuned yet.
I tried obliterating the unholy runes... I tried howling blast spam and using plague strike on unholy runes. I tried obliterating all the time and howling blast on CG procs. Honestly I had the best DPS output howling blast spam and plague strike on unholy runes. Thinking the reason it came ahead was due to faster necrotic plague stacking. Also I didn't test this with fallen crusader.

To me I don't see how you can think the skill cap is further lowered. If things go like blizzard expects/wants it will be harder not easier.