Holy priest T18

[Supercowmaster]

They took away the 4pc in the new listing hopfully that means its actually being changed, for all we know it was always just a filler and not a possibility, regardless i just dont want it as a 4pc

[SilentRose]

They took away the 4pc in the new listing hopfully that means its actually being changed, for all we know it was always just a filler and not a possibility, regardless i just dont want it as a 4pc

It's still there, the ptr notes on front page of mmo c are only for listing new/changed features, they won't repeat same features that have not changed as that list would be long and redundant.

On topic - 2 and 4 piece seem abysmal when considering current tiers set bonuses and what other healers are getting for their set bonuses. Holy priests already suffer from other classes bringing more utility/output to the table so having underperforming set bonuses and class trinket could be devastating for mythic holy priests.

[Supercowmaster]

It's still there, the ptr notes on front page of mmo c are only for listing new/changed features, they won't repeat same features that have not changed as that list would be long and redundant.

On topic - 2 and 4 piece seem abysmal when considering current tiers set bonuses and what other healers are getting for their set bonuses. Holy priests already suffer from other classes bringing more utility/output to the table so having underperforming set bonuses and class trinket could be devastating for mythic holy priests.

Oh thanks that was probably really obvious and i should have known that but oh well. I agree completely, we just underperform in every role right now and its sad since i love this spec so much and this would be the time with class trinkets and new tier sets to really give us more of an edge to actually compete with the other classes.

Perhaps its time they changed our mastery to something a bit more benefical because right now im look at some current prog logs of myself and echo of light is getting 40% + overheal. I personally have no ideas of the top of my head but yeah i feel that our mastery is pretty underwhelming

[Thirteen]

On topic - 2 and 4 piece seem abysmal when considering current tiers set bonuses and what other healers are getting for their set bonuses. Holy priests already suffer from other classes bringing more utility/output to the table so having underperforming set bonuses and class trinket could be devastating for mythic holy priests.

Pretty much. The state of holy will be dire, probably as bad as it was in SoO.

[Nzete]

Anybody math inclined looking at the viability of 2 piece t17 + 2 piece t18? The "gut feeling" is that the t17 2 set of extra PoM bounces all the time is going to be worth more than the t18 4 set of small chance for a split - is the split with or without stacks - even with ilevel differences in the pieces. Let's assume that people are looking at mythic tier 17 vs. mythic tier 18.

[Thirteen]

Not to mention, Holy currently is so mana efficient that many priests simply run SoL over Mindbender even though it's the most terrible in the line for mana regen.

I don't think you're looking at it the right way. Holy runs SoL not because we're swimming in mana, but because no amount of spirit can support the manacost of Flash Heal, which is directly tied to using our main spells (PoH, Heal). In fact holy has to slot everything with spirit just to get by, as opposed to other specs (disc, paladins) which are practically good to go with just one spirit trinket. Someone's gonna pretend they don't know any better and quote me on this, so for the record, the last part was a hyperbole.

[Sard]

My first thought when I saw the bonuses was that they were trying to move away from such game changing tier set bonuses as the 17 (both for Disc and Holy), but looking at other classes, that doesn't seem to be the case. Odd.

Pretty much. The state of holy will be dire, probably as bad as it was in SoO.

They really just need to suck it up and buff Hymn. Its a huge joke given how much of BRF healing is cooldown based and is really shackling Holy. If they want to keep it interesting, have Hymn be a channel that summons some angels that do random healing with random spells (maybe 2 spam renew and 2 spam flash heal or something).

[Kenyans]

I don't think you're looking at it the right way. Holy runs SoL not because we're swimming in mana, but because no amount of spirit can support the manacost of Flash Heal, which is directly tied to using our main spells (PoH, Heal). In fact holy has to slot everything with spirit just to get by, as opposed to other specs (disc, paladins) which are practically good to go with just one spirit trinket. Someone's gonna pretend they don't know any better and quote me on this, so for the record, the last part was a hyperbole.

I'm not sure why you would be using FH outside of procs/emergency situations. Glyphed BH is what we use to manually build serendipity and is what we're balanced around (for yellow and blue chakras alike). You also don't have to itemize full spirit, it's just necessary for staying in serenity. Sanctuary is fine with just shielding talisman on even longer fights.

As for the rest of the thread, lets keep in mind that the next tier is supposedly less "stack heavy" and includes more mobile healing which favors us aside from divine hymn (which we can potentially cheese by GS ourselves before casting it and just eating a mechanic. maybe).

[Thirteen]

I'm not sure why you would be using FH outside of procs/emergency situations. Glyphed BH is what we use to manually build serendipity and is what we're balanced around (for yellow and blue chakras alike). You also don't have to itemize full spirit, it's just necessary for staying in serenity. Sanctuary is fine with just shielding talisman on even longer fights.

My point was that SoL is the only choice for holy because it saves us more mana by indirectly reducing the manacost of GH/PoH (through free FHs). If we don't spec into it, we have to hardcast FH or BH, both of which are very expensive, just to build up into our more efficient heals.

As for the rest of the thread, lets keep in mind that the next tier is supposedly less "stack heavy" and includes more mobile healing which favors us aside from divine hymn (which we can potentially cheese by GS ourselves before casting it and just eating a mechanic. maybe).

I'll believe it when I see it, honestly. They keep promising us all sorts of things for healing but haven't delivered once (harder mana management, nerfed absorbs, triage healing, less movement while casting, etc)

[PosPosPos]

My point was that SoL is the only choice for holy because it saves us more mana by indirectly reducing the manacost of GH/PoH (through free FHs).

Mindbender is actually better and more reliable for that. Holy Priests don't really hate haste, so it's not a bad talent for mana regen overall.

If we don't spec into it, we have to hardcast FH or BH, both of which are very expensive, just to build up into our more efficient heals.

Pretty sure that's only for Serenity users. Sanctuary users don't give a damn about SoL procs because when you need to FH it's far from guaranteed that you have any up at all.

SoL's value as a mana regen talent aside from Serendipity's mana savings and free GCD is largely dependent on whether you would actually FH/BH as a filler to begin with.

Unless you intend to do that, Mindbender and even Solace is strictly better.

[Thirteen]

Mindbender is actually better and more reliable for that. Holy Priests don't really hate haste, so it's not a bad talent for mana regen overall.

But it's not really about the mana regeneration. Holy is bottlenecked into SoL because without it GH and PoH are significantly devalued. And unless you have the 4set, you're not going to be getting any Serendipity procs because FH itself is too expensive to cast. With SoL you at least get "free" Serendipity.

Pretty sure that's only for Serenity users. Sanctuary users don't give a damn about SoL procs because when you need to FH it's far from guaranteed that you have any up at all.

Actually it's almost always going to be up all the time, because in Sanctuary you'll be using almost every available GCD, as opposed to Serenity which can sometimes 'waste' GCDs by casting something with a cast time longer than the GCD.

[Rektbaka]

SoL in my honest opinion is a shitty talent (this is comming from a holy priest doing mythic content). If you have to support your raid by flash healing your other healers are doing it wrong. Not to mention binding heal is loads more efficient and generating serendipity and heals multiple targets (its like we do that anyway as holy priests).

Mindbender by far is the best "mana tier" talent for holy priests because of its haste scaling.

You talk about GCDs, flash heal is a waste of a GCD, nuff said. Fill your extra GCDs with renew spam.

Now onto the t18 bonuses, we are losing out on free serendipty and gaining... nothing? Something does need to be done about this. While I expect our throughput to suffer for this I do believe that Holy Priest will still be viable in the comming tier with all the multistike gear in iron cit. We may only have one viable trinket with our class trinket being the worst thing I have ever seen and the other healing trinkets obviously not meant for us. (Aside from the leech trinket which I find garbage anyway, why do we wanna give our raid leech, give us stats instead).

[Thirteen]

Now onto the t18 bonuses, we are losing out on free serendipty and gaining... nothing? Something does need to be done about this. While I expect our throughput to suffer for this I do believe that Holy Priest will still be viable in the comming tier with all the multistike gear in iron cit. We may only have one viable trinket with our class trinket being the worst thing I have ever seen and the other healing trinkets obviously not meant for us. (Aside from the leech trinket which I find garbage anyway, why do we wanna give our raid leech, give us stats instead).

From my experience? Nothing's gonna happen. All the priests that care are playing disc, and there's like 5 people playing holy, and they never complain, so nothing ever gets done. Also the leech trinket is massively overpowered atm, and I wouldn't be surprised if its values are halved by the time it goes live.

The spec has been mutilated beyond recognition at this point, and it's actually getting worse in 6.2, because somehow that's possible. We're going to reach SoO levels of uselessness in the new raid, and the fact that the spec has consistently been the least desirable healer for every single encounter in the last 5+ years says a lot. It offers zero utility, by far the worst raid cooldown, the worst single target cooldown, no CC, no interrupt, and average throughput. It's meh in raids, and garbage in PvP. No redeeming factors to the spec whatsoever. It's been getting butchered for 3 expansions in a row now, and quite frankly I wish something different could be said for shadow. It's had its ups and downs at least, but neither spec is in a good state, and I don't think either is going in a good place either. It's gotten to a point where even the gear that drops is actively working to make the spec worse.

[Deleted]

How does it feel to get these shitty set boni when monks and druids get the super good stuff?

[Deleted]

I think it just heals someone else, it doesn't actually put PoM on them. But even if it did, it's still terrible.

It's a shame this is most likely true. Although not as good as the current 2 piece. If it were to have a chance to just reset a 5 stack PoM on a fresh target then that'd be pretty cool and have the potential to be stronger. Just unlikely that it's anything more than it'll heal two targets.

[Smight]

Holy is perhaps the most disappointing spec in a disappointing expansion for healing. To send the class trinket live, or even to have developed such a terrible trinket, is characteristic of a lack of talent in Blizzard's development. Couple that with the most uninspired set bonuses and divine Hymn still feeling silly I'd say that a substantial reworking is mandatory. But I think this is true for healing in general at the moment. I just don't expect them to give two shits about feedback at this point. I'd like to say I'll just swap to shadow, but that's a separate trainwreck of incompetent balancing.

[Deleted]

Holy is perhaps the most disappointing spec in a disappointing expansion for healing. To send the class trinket live, or even to have developed such a terrible trinket, is characteristic of a lack of talent in Blizzard's development. Couple that with the most uninspired set bonuses and divine Hymn still feeling silly I'd say that a substantial reworking is mandatory. But I think this is true for healing in general at the moment. I just don't expect them to give two shits about feedback at this point. I'd like to say I'll just swap to shadow, but that's a separate trainwreck of incompetent balancing.

Trinket same as mastery, actually...

Mastery: All your spells overheal X% more, except for your main filler spell, which already overheals enough.
Trinket: Your second filler spell did not overheal enough, so now it overheals more!