PvP concerns, Dmg/CC/Healing

[Prode]

Until my cd heal that is supposed to heal me for 30% of my health only heals me for 8% then its pretty obvious. Add in MS and my 30% heal heals for 6% of my health. That is literally the kind of garbage that was going on with MoP battle fatigue.

Do you think a heal going from 8% heal to 6%, especially having a cooldown is a big change in overall effectivness? I'd describe the original as garbage and the new one as garbage too. All the while tons of other op heals, effectiveness of healing in general get corrected massively.
Don't mean offense, but I don't think what you're suggesting is anywhere near negative enough to compete with the benefits.

In case there would be no limitations/costs to changing spells and efficiency in changing them doesn't matter, your issue could be fine and understandable, but there are costs and efficiency matters a lot for a huge company. Also can't not take feasibility into account.
If your suggested change costs the company more than they get in return while achieving the absolute same, but avoiding 'looking worse' for the players, none of the company's leaders going to support your suggestion. And if they don't, gl.

What you do is, rule out a method for achieving what you'd like, so if they don't want to do it another way, you might not get anything at all instead. It's what happened and still happening with 6.2 in WoD. Did not like Battle Fatigue in beta, so they left healing op and instead combat it by the same way MoP did, by huge burst and high CC.

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EDIT:
Might be good to look at MoP PvP and WoD 6.2, compare them. MoP had 60% Battle Fatigue, WoD 0%, yet I think both are/going to be very similar and could probably describe both with way too high burst and CC in general.
It's because having BF or not, doesn't determine if it's a bad/good game, the very same game of any type can be achieved by the use of Battle Fatigue and without as well. But if Battle Fatigue is the way that costs less, Blizzard is going to prefer it and I think it's reasonable to expect such.
In fact the cost difference can be so much, that unless they can use BF, Blizzard won't even attempt to truly fix PvP issues.

Why the same game can be made with and without Battle Fatigue too is due to this problem.
http://i.imgur.com/PQMyfyt.png

[Gardrenn]

I don't think you read what I posted. I mentioned there were high cd percentage heals, and steady small percentage heals that were useless because of BF. You would have numbers as crazy as a 30% 2 min cd heal only healing for 6-10% after BF and mortal strike effects were factored in.

[Prode]

I don't think you read what I posted. I mentioned there were high cd percentage heals, and steady small percentage heals that were useless because of BF. You would have numbers as crazy as a 30% 2 min cd heal only healing for 6-10% after BF and mortal strike effects were factored in.

It's no concern -if- there are this and that kind of spells, enough to know if the benefits of the change outweigh the negatives. Basically if there are much more op/broken spells, this is no issue.

It's not a requirement when determining the necessity of a change that it must not have negative effects, it may. Take into account, yes, but it does not by no means rule out the need for the change by itself.

EDIT:
Also, this is not a concern of specific spells, enough if you compare HPS to DPS. They are the overall effectiveness of your healing/dmg. So if players' healing/dmg overall, in general is op, it is in fact justified to apply an overall reduction.

Should also note that Battle Fatigue or Resilience are changes meant to fix/correct -massive- issues.
So for an example that might be similar to this issue, don't mean offense, but having concerns about specific spells in such case is similar to trying to decide where the couch should be in a bombed house. Eventually should be concern to be solved, but not until there are major issues.

So yes, since there are major issues, such issues ought to be solved during longer testing periods like a beta and not on live, understandable concern. But players complained about Battle Fatigue -in the beta-, making Blizzard to not use the tools they need to fix PvP. Similar example could be that players basically took out the spades off of workers' hands, and now keep asking them to dig. This is not how it works, they won't dig.
This is no compromise, someone is going to lose this way. So far players have lost, since as I said in similar example, Blizzard 'won't dig' so won't fix PvP, thus PvP suffers.
The other way is that the workers, Blizzard take the necessary tools despite player concerns so they can keep 'digging', fixing the issues. Or to try and make players understand the necessity of these changes, and then apply them.

[Gumboy]

Games are not lasting forever, and unless burst damage is severely toned down as well, then burst healing needs to remain high or there is literally no point in not running triple dps.

Burst damage right now is the highest I've ever seen, and I played a rogue back in wizard cleave days, where if you didn't have cloak up and you got coiled away from the pillar, you were fucking dead.

[Prode]

Games are not lasting forever, and unless burst damage is severely toned down as well, then burst healing needs to remain high

Yes, you're correct, healing is the cause of why high burst dmg and also why too much CC have to exist. Quite simply, if they plague PvP in general, then there are major issues in general that cause them. In this case, yes healing is the cause, so one of the huge changes it needs to be corrected is a general healing reduction.

These general changes such as Battle Fatigue and Resilience correct the base of PvP, provide an overall, generally better gameplay. Once the base is given, there could/should be adjustments made, such as class balance fixes.
But until you have a generally good PvP, you won't be able to truly correct issues. If there is something broken in general and you don't fix it but try balance around it, you gonna need everything else that are against it to be made broken to effectively compete with it. See high burst and high CC in general, against healing in general.

[Deleted]

Yes, you're correct, healing is the cause of why high burst dmg and also why too much CC have to exist. Quite simply, if they plague PvP in general, then there are major issues in general that cause them. In this case, yes healing is the cause, so one of the huge changes it needs to be corrected is a general healing reduction.

Sorry but that's complete and utter BS. They tried toning it down in Cataclysm, MoP and at other times. The result? Tripple DPS dominating the field. Healing isn't the issue, has never been the issue and will never be the issue. If you nerf healers or try and "tone them down" as you guys demand healers just became too weak to stay competitive and aren't brought anymore.

Seriously any setting in which a multi season gladiator resto shaman gets pretty much killed in two attacks doesn't need any kind of change to healing and trying to blame the ludicrious state of dps on healing is absurd.