LFR ques up to two hours now, make them 10 man and cut time in half?

[mysticx]

I haven't done HFC LFR even once. Seriously, what is the point? Enhanced Tanaan items have higher ilvl and can be chosen to have better secondaries.

That's the main point really, compared to Tanaan gear that you can reroll for optimal stats (Stats on LfR-gear are almost always sub-optimal and the set-bonuses are hilariously bad) and then upgrade it to 10-20 itemlevels higher than LfR, not to mention ilevel 705 items off Kazzak for certain slots, and i personally have almost no LfR-gear on my main at all, and i have run every LfR-wing that i could for those tomes for the legendary ring...

[Osmeric]

and i have run every LfR-wing that i could for those tomes for the legendary ring...

That would be the only reason to do it. I've been running HFC normal with a fairly casual guild and see no need to do that. My tomes are coming just by ordinary raiding.

I hope Blizzard isn't thinking LFR-only raiders are going to stay subbed very long here.

[Tharkkun]

It is 6pm my time and I have been in a que for Hellbreach for over 2hrs, popped once at about the 1 hour 45 minute mark not enough joined so back in que.

Are you running PVP and dungeons in between? If so that pauses your queue time and takes the next person in the list.

[coocoo]

The main issue is that the reward model is completely broken in WoD.
Fix the reward issue (subpar shit gear, shitty looking gear, no tiers & pathetic trinkets, no satchels like back in MoP), and things will start looking better.
The balance was actually pretty decent in MoP, but here they took the whole package deal to retardville and made it worse in every possible imaginable way.

Even on alts I just recently dinged & took to the jungle, I don't bother with looking at LFR rewards on. I do each wing once for the quests required for the ring quests on them, and then I don't go back. Garrison & shipyard floods you with all the crap you need to finish the HM/BRF portions of the quest, and quickly too (finished BRF portion of quest in 3 weeks on last 2 alts I did, did only 1 lfr run on each for the quests required, got 300+ runes each week from garrison/shipyard on each char).
Which is probably another problem with the model now: you don't actually need to do the content on alts if you're not in a hurry to finish ring on them asap, you can just wait for your afk base to do it for you.

Add to that the fact you get better gear from jungle than you get from lfr, and you don't even have to bother looking at what drops there or bonus roll anything, because it's rubbish anyway and not worth the bother.

Which again points at the main issue: the reward model.
When the carrot is black & rotten, why would you go after it?

[Alroxas]

At the end of the day, the lack of tanks and healers are what lengthens LFR queues. Ultimately it's because of 2 factors: a) being a LFR tank/healer is unrewarding and b) progression limiting.

Given the state of LFR, tanks (and healers) have to deal with the DPS mob which typically behave like ADHD kids with too much sugar. Pulling more than they should and assuming the tanks (and healers) can handle it all. Additionally, solo tanks always have to wonder if the other tank is "on-the-ball" regarding how to do the next boss. Sure it's LFR, but even in LFR some mechanics do matter. And even if you did take the time to explain the fights, the DPS mob would rather pull than let you finish. As a result, tanks should make liberal use of the neural silencer.

Now on progression, there's not a lot of room for tanks to move pass LFR into a Normal+ raid group. DPS and healers can typically move up, but tanks are more limited since there's never a need for more than 2 tanks (and maybe 1 tanky DPS). This upper ceiling makes the tanking role unpopular (unless you enjoy just LFR tanking).

Are there good solutions? Not a clear one unless it involves class redesign. For instance, the new "Gladiator" talent/stance for Prot. Warriors is a decent attempt that allows tank geared Prot. Warriors to transition into a DPS spec without having to build a new DPS gear set.

The evolution of normal+ tier sets also helps make gear sets less daunting to manage/acquire (unless you're min/maxing which is beyond the scope of this discussion).

The proposed being less restrictive on class balancing within LFR might be good for shorter queue times at the expense of raid flexibility. What kind of raid flexibility? Imagine a 80% melee DPS mix going into Fel Lord Zakun or something similar. Granted raid flexibility shouldn't be a great concern in LFR but that flexibility can make some fights easier.

[Flutterguy]

They admitted they were weighing class diversification too much for LFR.

/facepalm

Why do you need class diversification in LFR? LFR shouldn't require range/melee balance.

[Keashaa]

Easiest solution:

a) cut off the second tank. We already have the situation that a tank swap would be the correct way to play the boss but the first tank immediately taunts back ("That's my mob!"). Most mechanics that require a tank swap are dumped down in LFR, so why not just remove them?
b) reduce the number of necessary healers. The problem with that is: the way the typical LFR player behaves it would be better to raise the number of healers. Heartseeker @ Kilrogg? Why run out of the camp? Killing adds? Why, it just lowers my dps! But okay, that's the same thing with normal raid groups. If the raid plays bad, more healers would be good. If the raid plays good, the healers are bored to be death

[Lodreh]

LFR mercenary mode - let players take control of trash mobs and adds to fight raiders.

This would be amazing

[khalltusk]

That would be the only reason to do it. I've been running HFC normal with a fairly casual guild and see no need to do that. My tomes are coming just by ordinary raiding.

I hope Blizzard isn't thinking LFR-only raiders are going to stay subbed very long here.

I run LFR as I don't quite have the time to find/make pug runs for normal. So far in HFC the boss fights have actually been fun. The gear is OK I guess and I am not too fussed by upgrades. Once I've completed HFC a few times and have the legendary done I will unsub.

[Shaetha]

The tank population is so low because tanks get crucified by the group for not knowing every mechanic of every fight at all times. The encounter journal is worthless for this, and you can NEVER, at any time, expect someone in an unorganized group to know information that isn't in the game. The only other way to learn is to do it, and tanks just aren't allowed to be new.