Log/Video Evaluation

[Tiorda]

Hello,

I went Rogue after being Mage since WoTLK at the start of Blackhand progress. I have been incrementally improving my Sub play but I'm ready for some harsh criticism. I think my numbers could be at least 10-20% better. I feel I'm playing decently but not 100% optimally.

I submit to you my Mythic Tyrant Velhari kill logs and video. Please let me know where I am failing abysmally. I feel my biggest failure, and a habit I can't seem to break is having SND and Rupture at max refresh before entering burst windows but I can never line it up perfectly for whatever reason. I take a lot of pride in playing "properly" and I am beginning to get frustrated that I can't seem to perfect my play. Thanks team.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKaE7RcFxH0

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

[Deleted]

First thing i noticed looked at some parses you seem to take a while when using your prep vanish for 2nd deathly shadows and the start of the fight? This seems to be a common theme throughout your logs. Prep can be using during the dance as you have downtime where you have to wait for energy for the final ambush anyway. This is an issue because it means you dont line vanish+dance up instantly on 2nd use. And as a result either have dance without 2pc or delay your cds too long which is a big no no. Go farm prepull set and you will have 26sec snd on pull and you wont have to refresh during dance. You seem to use cp on recup and shit a fair bit which shouldnt be needed at all, play a bit more selfishly. You are a turret and will outshine all the dps in your guild if you play correctly, catering for sub rogues isnt a bad thing because of how powerful we are if utilised correctly.
Opener is wrong too. You want to be using SR before you rupture so you get the double application.
Edit: Video is working and you vanish far too early on your opener and lose 1~ second of your buff doing nothing. here are a few points to work on for starters.

[Tiorda]

First thing i noticed looked at some parses you seem to take a while when using your prep vanish for 2nd deathly shadows and the start of the fight? This seems to be a common theme throughout your logs. Prep can be using during the dance as you have downtime where you have to wait for energy for the final ambush anyway. This is an issue because it means you dont line vanish+dance up instantly on 2nd use. And as a result either have dance without 2pc or delay your cds too long which is a big no no. Go farm prepull set and you will have 26sec snd on pull and you wont have to refresh during dance. You seem to use cp on recup and shit a fair bit which shouldnt be needed at all, play a bit more selfishly. You are a turret and will outshine all the dps in your guild if you play correctly, catering for sub rogues isnt a bad thing because of how powerful we are if utilised correctly.
Opener is wrong too. You want to be using SR before you rupture so you get the double application.
Edit: Video is working and you vanish far too early on your opener and lose 1~ second of your buff doing nothing. here are a few points to work on for starters.

Thanks, the link for the video was broken but I fixed it. Appreciate the input.

[Deleted]

Np man another thing from your video what i can see is which is another big thing is the lack of energy pooling before cooldowns. You want to be on 100~ energy going into dance/dance+reflection. Also extending your FW at the end of dances/vanishes is really important, better to wait 1/1.5 seconds and ambush at the very end of your dance for max fw uptime.
Edit: Ok on tyrant you sit on your vanish for i dont know how long then proceed to not use it when you dance reflection then yolo it randomly like 30 sec after your cds.
Edit 2: You just clicked your shadow dance and pot ring and smoke bomb.
Edit 3: Fok more.

[Tiorda]

For Tyrant I'm purposely not using my second shadow reflection. We are all blowing our CDs at 3 minutes to line up with the Edict, Ring and Burn to 40%. I'll have to go back and look at the sitting on Vanish, I may have been waiting to use it for an add, that could obviously be incorrect. Sitting on the SR could also be incorrect but I think for the sake of aligning with our strategy, it is correct.

[Deleted]

For Tyrant I'm purposely not using my second shadow reflection. We are all blowing our CDs at 3 minutes to line up with the Edict, Ring and Burn to 40%. I'll have to go back and look at the sitting on Vanish, I may have been waiting to use it for an add, that could obviously be incorrect. Sitting on the SR could also be incorrect but I think for the sake of aligning with our strategy, it is correct.

I dunno if you line anything up with vanish outside of your opener during that video. But ye thats bad.

[Deleted]

You move too much.

[Deleted]

Maximising the number of Ambush casts you can get during the fight is the most important aspect of Subtlety and you do that by pooling 100+ energy before every Vanish and Dance cast so you have the energy to get the highest amount of Ambushes during those periods which are: 3 during Vanish, 5-6 during Dance and 7 during Dance with Bloodlust. Also when your Vanish and Dance cooldowns are like 2-5 seconds apart, you wait those seconds for them to line up and use them together.

[Evolixe]

First thing i noticed looked at some parses you seem to take a while when using your prep vanish for 2nd deathly shadows and the start of the fight? This seems to be a common theme throughout your logs. Prep can be using during the dance as you have downtime where you have to wait for energy for the final ambush anyway. This is an issue because it means you dont line vanish+dance up instantly on 2nd use. And as a result either have dance without 2pc or delay your cds too long which is a big no no. Go farm prepull set and you will have 26sec snd on pull and you wont have to refresh during dance. You seem to use cp on recup and shit a fair bit which shouldnt be needed at all, play a bit more selfishly. You are a turret and will outshine all the dps in your guild if you play correctly, catering for sub rogues isnt a bad thing because of how powerful we are if utilised correctly.
Opener is wrong too. You want to be using SR before you rupture so you get the double application.
Edit: Video is working and you vanish far too early on your opener and lose 1~ second of your buff doing nothing. here are a few points to work on for starters.

If you aren't refreshing SnD in your initial dance, what are you using the combo points for?

SnD is the only Finisher besides Rupture that is factually free to cast compared to Evis which will net you 10e no matter what..
It's not like you have any spare energy you could use it to Evis with instead.

At least when I do that, I end up short for that last ambush.

[Deleted]

If you aren't refreshing SnD in your initial dance, what are you using the combo points for?

SnD is the only Finisher besides Rupture that is factually free to cast compared to Evis which will net you 10e no matter what..
It's not like you have any spare energy you could use it to Evis with instead.

At least when I do that, I end up short for that last ambush.

Are you.. for real? You really actually use SnD in your opener when all the damage increase buffs, trinket/weapon procs and first part of Shadow Reflection are active... And you're genuinely asking why you should use Eviscerate instead of it? REALLY?? Looking at your tyrant kill from 2 days ago, even though you used SnD in your opener to "save 10 energy", you still ended up with 5 Ambushes instead of 6.

[Deleted]

Are you.. for real? You really actually use SnD in your opener when all the damage increase buffs, trinket/weapon procs and first part of Shadow Reflection are active... And you're genuinely asking why you should use Eviscerate instead of it? REALLY?? Looking at your tyrant kill from 2 days ago, even though you used SnD in your opener to "save 10 energy", you still ended up with 5 Ambushes instead of 6.

The recording part of SR lasts 8s, SD lasts 10s, so you can use SnD just fine at the last 2s and still do a last ambush. SnD is the only Finisher that is energy neutral and that does not reduce vanish CD. Keeping that in mind it's the best skill to burn CPs with if you want to vanish but have 5+ CP.
During my opener I use SnD just before the 2nd Vanish and fit an evi and an ambush into the ring.
I don't count the amount of skills I do, so no idea how many ambush casts.

The thing about the opener is that is simable, you can't tell simc, as far as I know, to do a better SnD on the pull.

Maybe you can create another instance of SnD, that is only used on prepull, that lasts longer than the default one, but I don't know about that.
Taking it one step further you can most of the time start on 5 CP by resetting the boss before each pull.

[Deleted]

I was talking specifically about the opener, looking at Evolixe's log - he used SnD 7 seconds in, meaning during the recording part of Shadow Reflection. You actually should never have to reapply SnD during your opening Dance, even if you don't swap T4 and T15 gear and SnD on -2, when your Dance/Vanish/capacitor have timed out, you will have 6 seconds left on your SnD and you refresh it then, before your prep+vanish. During the course of the fight of course you might have to refresh SnD during Dance or Vanish, it might not be optimal but it's fine. But never on the opener.

[Evolixe]

Are you.. for real? You really actually use SnD in your opener when all the damage increase buffs, trinket/weapon procs and first part of Shadow Reflection are active... And you're genuinely asking why you should use Eviscerate instead of it? REALLY?? Looking at your tyrant kill from 2 days ago, even though you used SnD in your opener to "save 10 energy", you still ended up with 5 Ambushes instead of 6.

Yeah, I sometimes don't even make it to the 6th one regardless as ShD runs out the second the Ambush lights up. My point exactly.


Like I said, I don't know about you, but I don't have the energy to spare for that Evis.

- - - Updated - - -

I was talking specifically about the opener, looking at Evolixe's log - he used SnD 7 seconds in, meaning during the recording part of Shadow Reflection. You actually should never have to reapply SnD during your opening Dance, even if you don't swap T4 and T15 gear and SnD on -2, when your Dance/Vanish/capacitor have timed out, you will have 6 seconds left on your SnD and you refresh it then, before your prep+vanish. During the course of the fight of course you might have to refresh SnD during Dance or Vanish, it might not be optimal but it's fine. But never on the opener.

Yeah, I havn't been at Subt as it is for a long time. (Say.. 3 weeks?)
But I will use this information to change my way of doing things.

There's still no way around using SnD in your opener however. Just do it later.
Too bad about the lost combo points, but In the last week or so I've learned to ignore that more and more. Extra Ambush >>>>>>>> Evis

[Deleted]

If your SnD is running out during your opening 10 seconds, then you premed too early and SnD with 1 CP. If you premed @-12 for example. Use premed @-11 and SnD @-2.

[Evolixe]

If your SnD is running out during your opening 10 seconds, then you premed too early and SnD with 1 CP. If you premed @-12 for example. Use premed @-11 and SnD @-2.

Nah I macro my potion and SnD together. And we use a 10sec pulltimer. So I never SnD with 1CP.
I just refresh it at 12sec, when that is not yet necessary.