Recruiting Undergeared players

[Deleted]

Well, depends on how undergeared. Not during progress, though. If you have good experience in past guilds, we would consider it during farm.

[Hyve]

Gear comes and goes, but a positive attitude is potentially something that could stay with you forever. Recruiting an under-geared but potentially great raider is done by almost all the decent guilds, and any guild who recruits solely on the basis of their iLevel is most likely a terrible guild, and not worth spending your time in.

Any decent Raid Leader will know that someone with the skills to complete the content, is more important than the gear, as it'd be easy to gear them up.

[Fazer]

* Has he put effort in gearing up on his own? Some people apply without having done any pugs or even Tanaan for gear. Anyone can reach 700+ and some hc kills on their own, if they didn't do it they're probably not ready to commit, just want a carry.

This is pretty much what you can check to prevent bad recruits from people you have no experience in raiding with, or without someone referring. Isn't foolproof of course, but does weed out most of those that cannot commit into raiding.

[Deleted]

I'm a returning player, been in top 40 guilds for a substantial amount of time, had to quit raiding in WoD due to university, looking to get back into the game for Legion. If you know a guild that's willing to recruit me, I'd appreciate it

But yeah, I've not seen many guilds willing to recruit undergeared players. Even with proven past experience.

depends on the class you play and what is needed. my guild is progressing on manno mythic atm and we'd take a 600 ilvl dk just for grips if we were 100% sure hes good and will stay with us xD

[psyquest]

I am the raid leader in my guild and we are still progressing after months litteraly trying to recruit.

people that have a past raid experience and want to raid, can EASILY make a small effort to get geared. Getting a headstart for the ring is very easy. If I see that the player is motivated and has made an effort in gearing, I will trial the player. If the player has no past experience and comes with a naked character, the player wont be considered.

When we finish the progress we typically gear and trial any player with verifiable past history in pve, regardless of gear level.

[Deleted]

How do you define an undergeared player?

If a player has come back to the game (At this stage), is 650 ilvl without enchants, even with a somewhat strong history, I doubt we will take him/her. However if the person was 710+ ilvl (Which is easily possible, have enchants and a strong guild history + good logs from previous tier, we would strongly consider it as that person has made an effort.

It is very easy to gear up now a days, and getting 710 ilvl without touching Mythic is easily doable.

The people that make an effort are normally those that do not end up leaving, where as those 680 ilvl people that quit in Highmaul, applying for a new guild with mediocre logs and only excuses to not gear up is because they just started, we give very little thought. Every strong raider knows that guilds will only take you in if you show initiative. (This is ofc only likely if this is an application and not a vouch from someone currently in the guild)

[Deleted]

Now with the upgrades, the part of "easily doable" might be more in favor of you, but getting the gear you need in pugs is still not an easy task to accomplish. I for one am very unlucky when rolling for gear ;-)

[Layke]

Our guild has always prized skill over gear, but this tier and expansion present various challenges that haven't existed in the past. Simply put, without a Legendary Ring, you cannot participate in progression. People who do not have this ring are nothing but dead weight. It takes about a month to get, so in that time you're offering nothing to the guild. Also, the guild may not have any members (or very few) who need to do the first 6 bosses. By having to gear you up, it sacrifices time that could be spent on progression or higher farm bosses by simply skipping straight to the middle tier of HFC.

Now, don't mistake me, guilds *still* do this. We have. We got an insane Warrior and Rogue in the process, and I feel it was worth it. But we did lose quite a lot of time on progression that is only just now starting to show momentum. For the people who have been in the guild for quite some time already, hitting a wall in progression can be a bummer. It may cause them to burn out or leave to another guild, meaning the recruitment cycle simply starts over. Taking the time to gear up new players causes this stress.

Couple all of this with WoD being the lowest WoW has been in ages, and raid guilds are struggling to get by. 20m Mythic, while a great idea (and much better than having two different sizes) forces guilds to actively maintain 20-25 people. With HFC being the final raid tier and nothing new on the horizon until Legion, people are quitting. Guilds are having to constantly recruit, and like people have said before, we're picking up people that show promise and commitment. With the lowest number of quality raiders ever in the history of the game, it's becoming harder than ever to keep an active roster.

[Deleted]

Depends how undergeared.

If you bring 640 ilvl then you can't really expect to get into a guild that's doing mythic because you simply won't be any useful. It's primarily because how ridiculous the power growth between difficulties is.

T18 Normal - 48-55k dps simcraft
T18 Heroic - 78-90k dps simcraft
T18 Mythic - 110-140k dps simcraft

From normal to mythic over 100% throughtput increase. Way too bloated and way too many mandatory items such as archi trinkets etc. You can't bring a valor point burst trinket and do well anymore like in DragonSoul.

Although in this patch it became very easy to gear up quickly through Ashran. I spent like 2h in there yesterday, came out with 2 conquest items (1 from cache 1 bought) + like 6 honor items (3 from caches 3 bought). They are 700-710 ilvl. Pretty damn strong.

Guilds just expect you to grasp this easy opportunity and squeeze as much out of your character as you possibly can. Everyone can join Ashran and slack a bit to come with a decent bouquet of 700+ gear. Gold is very easy to make, you can easily muster some and get yourself 725 crafted items. If you want to join a mythic guild, don't expect to get in with 640 and get boosted from there. Show them that you made an effort.

[Ezekiah]

The problem with recruiting undergeared players is the logs. After we've completed mythic, we're very willing to invest in a player and gear them up if they show potential, but the only metrics we have to work on are numeric performance vs simcraft potential, which is imperfect at the best of times, and prior raid experience. Being undergeared can also show a lack of commitment, and if we see that, then we're not going to expect you to be driven. If you've done everything you can on your own, and have done so while demonstrating the capacity to play at a high level, then we're always willing to give people a shot.

With that said, we never recruit those types of players during progression unless we have no other choice. Funneling gear we need to someone we don't yet trust is a massive risk. During farm, the gear means nothing to us, and we're not competing anymore, so that alleviates the burden. Believe it or not, I think you're more likely to get into a 13/13m guild as a heroic geared player than you are a 11/13m guild, just as a product of this. Immediate need vs investment and so on. I know that's true for us anyway, but I can't speak for everyone.

[DevilsAdvocate]

Guilds just take whoever they can. Everybody wants that perfect raider with perfect attendance and amazing logs and cutting edge gear.

But truth be told the standards for raiders are way down compared to where they were in previous expansions. The hugely decreasing subscriber base just ensures that. You take whatever you can get.

I think only at the the very top are attendance and gear standards still high and even these guilds are having problems keeping people in general. The attrition rate is higher than it's ever been in my personal experience. If we get people up to snuff they mostly leave within 2 months or so. The game just isn't that interesting.

We have 5 mythic spots kept by basically 2 or 3 people apiece. Any one of them if they had good attendance would be a good raider but most don't have the interest. We are glad to just have someone that can be fairly competent for that slot.

For our top 3 server guild, gear doesn't matter as much as a player's persistence (as in do they care enough to keep coming to progression and enjoy mastering their class) along with their general aptitude at learning their class and raid mechanics. For the most part, smart people have left the game in droves and sometimes it seems all that are left are these lfr retards that gear themselves off askmrrobot and are incapable of mildly above-retard executive level decision making like using your cooldowns on time or even proper gear itemization. We've had to recruit some of these morons to have a warm body and placeholder, something we never would've done in the past.

At any rate, its to be expected. 6.2 had about 3 months of content for mythic guilds and its past that point. Now we are in a holding position and hoping not to deteriorate standards too much as we prepare for legion a year down the road. At least half of the officers will probably go afk during that period and I don't blame them.

[Albimoo]

3 months of content? This is the same forum that claims that only the "elite" ever clear the hardest difficulty but then flips and says that raiding has no more content to offer?

Guilds that cleared before the nerfs will 1 night clear, reducing burnout rate as its hard to get burnt out raiding one night a week with a carry. Guilds that were close to 13/13 but hadnt cleared before nerfs will finally clear and work on BiS until they get into group 1's boat, and guilds that werent really that close will continue progressing through the instance.

Now im not disagreeing that a content drought like this will hit the raiding community (like the rest of the game) and think that a september release date is ludicrous (like most of the community) but to say that just showing up should garner you a raidspot because everyone is getting burnt out seems silly.

[Cookiecutters]

I took a 3 month+ hiatus from WoW and was still able to get in w a 9/13M guild. I had zero Mythic kills for HFC but I had full clears past tiers and extensive Heroic/Mythic experience + old logs (1 tome from ring blah blah).

So, yes it can be done, and as others have stated it's really up to the guild you apply to. If you have no experience, no gear- you'd be better off trying to gear through lfr, Normals, Baleful gear and the daily grind for the L. ring. Gear is easy to acquire now esp. w Mythic dungeons being a thing too. Then you have the guild's still unable to push content running Normals and Heroics that may be in need of people.

Idk what you're capable of but if you're decent at your class and talk privately w the recruiters an opportunity could be given.

[Gaidax]

This really depend on circumstances, if the guild is desperate to fill some specific spot, then gear is not AS much of an issue, but if guild is pretty comfortable and wants to add some fat just in case? You bring that gear buddy, unless you really manage to impress.

And again, it is true that running a couple of raids you can hear guys decently well, but for example a guild who is extending a lot pushing Archimonde M has no such opportunity really and you won't be taking ilvl 700 to Archimonde M really.

So the answer is that both camps are right, as some guilds want geared players and others want just players.

[Timmos]

T18 Normal - 48-55k dps simcraft
T18 Heroic - 78-90k dps simcraft
T18 Mythic - 110-140k dps simcraft

.

I just want to point out those number are heavy bias. You can clear N-mode archi with half of the raid doing 40k dps, and you can clear H-mode archi with 45-65k dps.