Whats the deal with Nythendra? (Retribution)

[arrav]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/10#

(scroll down to Nythendra)


Just wanted to ask for some help in regards to nythendra, specifically the mythic fight. According to Warcraft Logs, the top 10 DPS on her, are all Ret paladins save one warrior. Strangely, the difference between the 2nd and 1st place DPS is astronomical. The questions I wanted to ask are.

-Why are Ret paladins getting so high on nythendra?

-Can anyone help me figure out why there is such a large gap between first and second?

Thanks for any help in advance, and have a great day!

[Schrenk212]

I'm pretty sure potion of the old war is copying the buff from the legendary cloak Drape of the Nathrezim, so every 2 minutes, since the guy in first is lining Crusade up with his Potion, he's doing 25% increased damage with TV, 3 times a button press.

[arrav]

I didnt actually notice there was another thread on this already, is there a way to delete this post?

[ailora]

I'm pretty sure potion of the old war is copying the buff from the legendary cloak Drape of the Nathrezim, so every 2 minutes, since the guy in first is lining Crusade up with his Potion, he's doing 25% increased damage with TV, 3 times a button press.

It can't be the cape, guys without the cape are doing insane damage too.

[Rushman7]

I won't say how this is done but basically theres a bug where you can obtain a perm Retribution Aura so long as you remain inside EN. (Other 6 bosses included) i've tested it myself, already sent a ticket to blizzard.

[Saintlel]

I won't say how this is done but basically theres a bug where you can obtain a perm Retribution Aura so long as you remain inside EN. (Other 6 bosses included) i've tested it myself, already sent a ticket to blizzard.

Retribution Aura?

You mean Vengeance Aura? Or the Retribution buff

Because I highly doubt you mean Ret aura

Also I checked some of the logs, and none of them that I could read (English), had Retribution up for longer than they should have, so not quite sure what you're even talking about

[Deleted]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...translate=true
(check the times 'Crusade' is used during the fight)

bug/exploit used. Reported it when I saw it in a pug. Retri tier18 setbonus still working in there.

(edit: grammer)

[Grapemask]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...translate=true
(check the times 'Crusade' is used during the fight)

bug/exploit used. Reported it when I saw it in a pug. Retri tier18 setbonus still working in there.

(edit: grammer)

Using a set bonus isn't an exploit, it's just using game mechanics. Not even good enough to be classified as "clever" usage of game mechanics. Pretty much just playing the game.

(It's also important to check the actual Crusade uptime chart; he used it 4 times, twice back to back as allowed by the set and then on cooldown as they came back up, not the "24 times" one might think from just a glance at the buff table. This is attributed to weirdness with Crusade's stacking nature, I'm pretty sure.)

[Deleted]

THere is a reason why they nerfed it in a recent hotfix (and tbh I wondered about it myself). Three charges of crusade were easily worth the loss of ilvl

Hotfixed? How? Oh i see only 2 charges. Is it still worth it?

[bingbangpow]

Hotfixed? How? Oh i see only 2 charges. Is it still worth it?

you can snapshot the t18 4 set to get the 50% dmg increase even if the loss il isnt worth 2 charges

[jtzir]

you can snapshot the t18 4 set to get the 50% dmg increase even if the loss il isnt worth 2 charges

Could you please explain how to do a 'snapshot'? I've heard it a lot but don't understand what to do in this case... just swap macro all 4 pieces of t18.. use wings.. swap back.. pull boss?

[Vuagnon]

You are all discussing the wrong thing here. Look at all other fights, where ret isn't in the top 10.

Now I'm asking, what's the deal?

[Fatali]

I killed the boss on Mythic last night, couldn't get anywhere near the numbers the top Retribution DPS had.
It seriously pissed me off so I compared some numbers.

I can tell you right now that it's not just Templar's Verdict's damage that's through the roof on that fight for some people, so don't focus on the cape.

I compared some of the numbers between me and the current #1 Retribution DPS on that fight. Here's what I got:

Fight length: 7:03 for us, 7:09 for the current #1 Ret DPS. This one Ret carried the whole raid.
DPS: 233k for me, 538k for #1. I probably could have gotten over 260k DPS if I hadn't gotten a Rot debuff on every Crusade cast. Regardless, the DPS difference is just astounding.
Total damage done: 98.95m for me, 231.09m for #1. To be sure, I didn't really DPS at all during the movement phases because survivability > damage, but still, some 130 million difference in damage done is astronomical.
Templar's Verdict avg hit: 202k for me, 397k for #1.
Templar's Verdict avg crit: 283k for me, 981k for #1. It's also worth pointing out that the max TV crit from #1 was a whopping 2,3 million damage, whereas I barely got over 500k.

But we all knew TV's numbers before, here's where things get really interesting:
#1 is doing an average hit of 451k with the initial hit from Wake of Ashes, whereas my average was 198k.
The DoT effect from Wake of Ashes damage is also affected by whatever's happening on Nythendra, with #1 doing 78k average dot ticks, while my average dot ticks were only 35k.

Blade of Justice: #1 has average Blade of Justice hit of 407k, I'm at 192k.
Judgment: 328k avg hit for #1, 188k for me.
Basic melee attack: 79k avg hit for #1, 36k for me.

Crusader strike damage can't alas be directly compared, since #1 was using Zeal, presumably to hit MC targets.
But while I was hitting 94k on average with CS, #1 was hitting 265k on average with Zeal.

Last, and possibly most interesting of all, Shield of Vengeance:
My average Shield of Vengeance hit was 539k, #1 actually lost this one with 517k average. Whatever's going on doesn't work for Shield of Vengeance.

As for gear, talents, and consumables:

Neither me nor the current #1 have legendary cloaks (according to armory anyways), the only legendary I have is the belt, and #1 has the HoPo regenenerating ring.

My weapon is 891 ilevel, #1 has 890.
I'm using Crusade, #1 used Divine Purpose.
I used potion of the old war, #1 used deadly grace.
We were both using the Chaos Talisman trinket, though #1 has since changed it for something else on the armory page. #1 also used an 850 ilevel Nature's Call trinket.
#1 got the Retribution a whopping nine times during the fight, I only got five.
#1 used the 300 haste buff food, I used 375 versatility.
#1 had an enhancement shaman in the raid and got some Stormlash buffs as a result, I did not, but I doubt that one buff makes the bug happen.
#1 presumably went the shorter way to Ashes to Ashes, as #1 has two procs from Unbreakable Will, an artifact trait that I don't even have.
#1 Had mark of the hidden satyr neck enchantment, I was using Mark of the Claw. I don't know the normal numbers for Hidden Satyr, but I think that damage was also affected by whatever goes on in that fight. It did a little over nine million damage in that seven minute fight.

#1's raid used Heroism at the beginning of the fight, we used Time Warp. (Considering the increased numbers start right at the beginning of the fight when some form of Bloodlust is used, this is as much worth testing as anything else.)

#1 had Unbreakable Will registered twice as a buff, once as a debuff. Unrelated, I'm sure, but curious.

All in all, aside from the Crusade/Divine Purpose talent difference, and the different legendary items, I can't really tell what we did differently there that might make the fight behave strangely. For the people crying exploit on purpose, I highly doubt that. We already had a paladin in a different thread who said he didn't intentionally try to break anything, it just happened for him.

Also, #1 didn't have the old set bonus that gives more charges to wings, as #1 used his wings four times, which is the appropriate amount considering that first pair of wings goes off right at the pull.

[GT4]

Last time I checked, every single of those high ranked Rets had tons of wipes previously and was doing more damage with all abilities than expected. Their DPS also started out pretty average in the first tries and got higher with every try. It's pretty obviously a bug with the Retribution damage bonus staying active under certain circumstances (e.g. when you die while it's active).

[bingbangpow]

Could you please explain how to do a 'snapshot'? I've heard it a lot but don't understand what to do in this case... just swap macro all 4 pieces of t18.. use wings.. swap back.. pull boss?

exactly right I've actually even seen a dps increase in mythic and mythic+ with wearing 2 piece and having double wings since it's had a slight nerf