Affliction needs a 'new' class fantasy.

[glorygores]

personally i'd rather atleast just go back to the malefic version then the clunky bullshit we have now. But maybe thats just cause I thought malefic grasp was one of the best spell particle effects blizzard has made in a while and it's a same they removed it, same with soul fire.
definitely hope they change this soul shard shit though, each class had a unique resource theme to them in mop/wod and then for the sake of class fantasy and diversity they made...them all the same? really?

[Lucrece]

personally i'd rather atleast just go back to the malefic version then the clunky bullshit we have now. But maybe thats just cause I thought malefic grasp was one of the best spell particle effects blizzard has made in a while and it's a same they removed it, same with soul fire.
definitely hope they change this soul shard shit though, each class had a unique resource theme to them in mop/wod and then for the sake of class fantasy and diversity they made...them all the same? really?

I don't get the complaints about soul shards.

Embers are bullshit compared to soul shards, soul shards were a warlock mechanic since vanilla. There is possibly nothing more warlock-ish than soul shards, demons, and curses.

It makes total sense that warlocks use soul shard as a resource. And it doesn't need to be crappy RNG, as demonology shows us.

[glorygores]

I don't get the complaints about soul shards.

Embers are bullshit compared to soul shards, soul shards were a warlock mechanic since vanilla. There is possibly nothing more warlock-ish than soul shards, demons, and curses.

It makes total sense that warlocks use soul shard as a resource. And it doesn't need to be crappy RNG, as demonology shows us.

lolwhat? How are Soul shards for Destruction not completely rng? Burning embers you could atleast predict wtf was gonna happen, you could actually pool. Demonology soul shards mechanics are fucking perfect, I love how it works. You have CONSISTENT ways to generate shards ACTIVELY. Through Shadowbolt/Demonbolt and Shadowflame if talented. Destruction's only control over soul shard generation is Conflag. so you basically rely on either a 15% chance on tick or 30% on crit. Along with all the other shit in Destruction, and things they just removed from us, put in talents, and dont even get me started on the fucking mastery. They took what used to be a smooth controlled spec for XD LOL CHAOTIC RNG CX

Putting ALL that aside. When Blizzard parades around about making each spec DIFFERENT but then takes something UNIQUE about them and then homogenizes it? That's complete fucking bullshit.

[Lucrece]

lolwhat? How are Soul shards for Destruction not completely rng? Burning embers you could atleast predict wtf was gonna happen, you could actually pool. Demonology soul shards mechanics are fucking perfect, I love how it works. You have CONSISTENT ways to generate shards ACTIVELY. Through Shadowbolt/Demonbolt and Shadowflame if talented. Destruction's only control over soul shard generation is Conflag. so you basically rely on either a 15% chance on tick or 30% on crit. Along with all the other shit in Destruction, and things they just removed from us, put in talents, and dont even get me started on the fucking mastery. They took what used to be a smooth controlled spec for XD LOL CHAOTIC RNG CX

Putting ALL that aside. When Blizzard parades around about making each spec DIFFERENT but then takes something UNIQUE about them and then homogenizes it? That's complete fucking bullshit.

"Doesn't NEED to be crappy RNG"

Put it in caps, since you didn't read it the first time before you replied to me. I said how demo demonstrated that soul shards didn't need to feel bad because of RNG.

Soul shards as a resource are perfectly fitting of the warlock class. There are better things to bitch about. Warlocks are dark casters, not fire mage lite with those stupid embers.

I don't understand why anybody would play a warlock if they didn't like soul shards or demons. That's what warlocks are pretty much all about, souls, corruption, and demonic fel powers.

You want a pet-less pure fire caster, fire mages are right there for you.

[Zalkiden]

I mean... the master of souls / grim reaper fantasy was exactly what they were trying to go for with the legion overhaul. That's the entire point of the scythe.

I agree, the 'Grim Reaper' type fantasy is a neat direction to go far rather than just Shadow Magic, Curses, Drains, Soul Shards. I feel like those are just pieces of something much more. They just didn't deliver on any kind of fantasy with the Artifact weapon or the spec. It feels hollow.

I figure Agony, Unstable Affliction, Siphon Life, Drain Life, were more aimed at the body; Corruption too but that could be more ambiguous. I get that Drain Soul was something else, but something you built to having previously wracked the body and clearly not so much targeting or manipulating but physically draining the Soul; you had to work for it before you reached a point that you could.

Soul Fire became more iconic to Demonology, but again it was fuelled by a Soul Shard. I do miss it though, but don't think it really 'goes' with Affliction.

That is a interesting idea of the DoTs rotting away the body to get to the soul. Unsure of how one could portray that through gameplay and animations. It's certainly awesome though.

I realize they tied Soul Fire to Demonology at one point. I predominately added Soul Fire in place of just plain old Haunt for one because I miss the spell, mixing up the animations for Affliction would be neat, giving Affliction a way to benefit from the green fire quest would be nice, the name fits for the spec, and to top it all off I feel all warlock specs should incorperate (Fel)Flame, Shadow, and Demons to some degree. Of course each spec specializing in one specific form over the others.

I think something like a soul effigy swirling souls, but green/transluscent blue would work. I'll take anything over the purple balls and the puffy smoke farts for the dot animations.

They could even take some elements from soul swap as a visual for souls.

The Destro artifact quest npc even had an updated version of drain life with a much better looking beam, not sure why they haven't used that graphic for the player.

I won't hold out for much, though. Demonbolt several expansions later is still orange instead of green with green fire quest, soul fire's pretty graphics are gone, and destro fire is not updated for green fire. Wrathguard is gone still. Warlocks didn't get lucky with visual updates this xpac.

Souls swirling about us as we gain souls/soul shards would be awesome. Something to indicate power. We are very bland in the visual department. I tried to address much of that. Perhaps I need to shorten my initial post. It does look rather daunting.

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I don't get the complaints about soul shards.

Embers are bullshit compared to soul shards, soul shards were a warlock mechanic since vanilla. There is possibly nothing more warlock-ish than soul shards, demons, and curses.

It makes total sense that warlocks use soul shard as a resource. And it doesn't need to be crappy RNG, as demonology shows us.

I'm sorry if my post made it seem like I was opposed to Soul Shards. I enjoyed the implementation they had back in Cata when they were only utility. Since they have wormed their way into our rotation it feels rather shitty to have when combined with mana issues and life tap. I chose to use Life Tap in place of Shards for a similar effect because Life Tap feels abit more iconic for warlocks than shards. If locks no longer needed mana like many other casters in this xpac. Getting rid of shards rather than life tap seemed a smarter move. Abit more 'Warlock'. Know what I mean? Sacrificing our very life to empower our classic spells. While using souls to fuel stronger spells that would otherwise kill us to use.

personally i'd rather atleast just go back to the malefic version then the clunky bullshit we have now. But maybe thats just cause I thought malefic grasp was one of the best spell particle effects blizzard has made in a while and it's a same they removed it, same with soul fire.
definitely hope they change this soul shard shit though, each class had a unique resource theme to them in mop/wod and then for the sake of class fantasy and diversity they made...them all the same? really?

Hmm, aside from the animation for Malefic Grasp, was there anything else that made you enjoy the spec more then? I realize we don't have much now but what was the ideal iteration of an Affliction Warlock for you?

[glorygores]

Hmm, aside from the animation for Malefic Visions, was there anything else that made you enjoy the spec more then? I realize we don't have much now but what was the ideal iteration of an Affliction Warlock for you?

I enjoyed MOP affliction the most personally. I enjoy'd the idea of empowering my dots with my filler, soul swap and snapshotting also made for really fun intense decision-making that rewarded skill. I wouldn't mind simply having shadowbolt do something similar but I always felt like Malefic grasp/Drain Soul felt thematic for Affliction. You're not only releasing these magical curses on the enemy that rots them away but you physically create a link to empower that power.

[Zalkiden]

I enjoyed MOP affliction the most personally. I enjoy'd the idea of empowering my dots with my filler, soul swap and snapshotting also made for really fun intense decision-making that rewarded skill. I wouldn't mind simply having shadowbolt do something similar but I always felt like Malefic grasp/Drain Soul felt thematic for Affliction. You're not only releasing these magical curses on the enemy that rots them away but you physically create a link to empower that power.

I agree that when I originally saw the animation, the lore behind the spell, and how it 'forced' the DoTs to tick it seemed awesome. The implementation of it was more my problem I suppose which is why I opted for a Shadowbolt filler. I think if the actual spell itself grew stronger based off DoTs rather than empowering the DoTs themselves it would have made for healthier game play.

[Deleted]

I agree that when I originally saw the animation, the lore behind the spell, and how it 'forced' the DoTs to tick it seemed awesome. The implementation of it was more my problem I suppose which is why I opted for a Shadowbolt filler. I think if the actual spell itself grew stronger based off DoTs rather than empowering the DoTs themselves it would have made for healthier game play.

I really liked the fact MG made agony tick faster and reach maximum, reducing the rampup that is always there when applying multiple dots.

[Zalkiden]

I really liked the fact MG made agony tick faster and reach maximum, reducing the rampup that is always there when applying multiple dots.

It was nice to have Agony ramp up quicker, I'll give it that. I do feel that they should have shortened the stacks or had it stack slightly faster with the removal of the MG mechanic.

[Deleted]

Aff is fine now. The fantasy is ok, we just need some numbers fix and some talents need to be replaced (e.g. Effigy, which is plain shit).

I completely don't understand the fixation on Shadow Bolt and Soul Fire. These are the most boring spells ever and bring nothing over Drain Life/Drain Soul other than dps loss when you need to move mid-cast.

I'd redesign Haunt to be a single-target damage buff to dots to prop up our single target damage. No interaction with death. Scrap Writhe, put Sow the Seeds there. Boost Agony slightly to compensate. Scrap Bullshit Tap, put Soul Harvest there. Make Siphon Life baseline. Scrap Effigy, put OPs Soul Reaper idea there (I like it) as our single-target DPS cooldown.

Make Demonic Circle baseline.

Remove Doomguard, keep our current artifact ability that boosts our damage, just give it a slight numerical boost and a 2 minute cd, screw soul eatin'. This would be our dps cooldown. The Soul Harvest talent could empower it, not be stacked with it. We have a proc to react to, namely Compound Horror, maybe remake to make more impactful again (but more rare?).

Leave one of the gold dragons that work of off add deaths as is, it's a toss-up which. Replace the other with "Looming Death" or something, that makes our drain have an execute mechanic again below 20%, doubling its damage.

Talent-wise we've just gained a row, so shuffle the cc/survivability talents a bit. Then it would be:

15 -- Haunt, StS, Drain Soul (single target, AoE, add sniping)
30 -- Contagion, AC, Soul Harvest (single, multi, burst)
45 -- Mortal Coil, Exhaustion, Shadowfury (Howl baseline, it's not competitive)
60 -- Dark Pact, Siphon Life, improved healing from Siphon Life talent (thus: burst cd, throughoutput, multitarget)
75 -- Burning Rush, Improved Demonic Circle (2 charges), ??? (maybe KJC on cooldown)
90 -- can stay as is (but we should have our main demon ability back when we use Sacrifice)
100 --- as is, with the above mentioned cd in place of the hated Effigy

[Cheapnecrolyte]

Ghost being associated with warlocks seemed a weird thing.

To you? Yes

To any sane being who understands the terms astral and spiritual? No.

Demons are from the Nether, an astral coalition of unstable spiritual (Light and Void) energies that is separate from the physical universe.

Because the Nether is an astral coalition of unstable spiritual energies, it has no physical borders or boundaries. It is a non-physical place and claiming that the physical can exist inside the non-physical is akin to claiming that rocks can exist inside a ghost.

Demons are non-physical beings that warlocks can give physical shells to if they're from the Nether, ergo ghosts being associated with warlocks doesn't seem to be a weird thing.

[Zalkiden]

To you? Yes

To any sane being who understands the terms astral and spiritual? No.

Demons are from the Nether, an astral coalition of unstable spiritual (Light and Void) energies that is separate from the physical universe.

Because the Nether is an astral coalition of unstable spiritual energies, it has no physical borders or boundaries. It is a non-physical place and claiming that the physical can exist inside the non-physical is akin to claiming that rocks can exist inside a ghost.

Demons are non-physical beings that warlocks can give physical shells to if they're from the Nether, ergo ghosts being associated with warlocks doesn't seem to be a weird thing.

Hmm, I'm not quite sure where the aggression came from. Or why you're speaking to me as if I'm a child. I explained my thought process and ultimately confessed that the subject at hand did indeed make sense for the Warlock thematic.

However, if you would like I'd be glad to read and discuss any changes you would like to see done to Affliction Warlocks in either a thematic or gameplay sense.

[BananaHandsB]

Very cool idea. Tho I think instead of replacing affliction, this would be a cool 4th warlock spec. Tho I like 'Master of Souls', I think 'Soul Reaper' has a nice ring to it too for the spec name, not just an ability. Would be very interesting to convert it to a partial healing spec, like disc priest, where you'd be tapping your enemy's souls/life (and maybe your own as well) to heal your allies.

[Zalkiden]

I completely don't understand the fixation on Shadow Bolt and Soul Fire. These are the most boring spells ever and bring nothing over Drain Life/Drain Soul other than dps loss when you need to move mid-cast.

I'd redesign Haunt to be a single-target damage buff to dots to prop up our single target damage. No interaction with death. Scrap Writhe, put Sow the Seeds there. Boost Agony slightly to compensate. Scrap Bullshit Tap, put Soul Harvest there. Make Siphon Life baseline. Scrap Effigy, put OPs Soul Reaper idea there (I like it) as our single-target DPS cooldown.

Shadowbolt for me was more of a point of nostalgia than anything. I wouldn't be opposed to MG coming back with a slight tweak to it. I was just never a fan of how it functioned mechanically. By having it directly force DoTs to tick instead of the DoTs increasing the damage of the spell itself, it made for tickle DoTs on anything other than the Haunt + MG target. I'm not a fan of the double throttle. As for Soul Fire, it's haunt with a new skin here. We get to see green fire as Affliction and get to see the old haunt animation when the heal comes back. Win/win/win in my book.

One of my main problems with much of the way the talents line up now is I hate that we don't have a AoE row and a Single target row. Which would allow us to choose how we chose to do either. Instead we have to choose if we want Single target, multi target, AoE and a few spots and it doesn't give us a choice per situation. Only a choice of if we're on trash or bosses.

Remove Doomguard, keep our current artifact ability that boosts our damage, just give it a slight numerical boost and a 2 minute cd, screw soul eatin'. This would be our dps cooldown. The Soul Harvest talent could empower it, not be stacked with it. We have a proc to react to, namely Compound Horror, maybe remake to make more impactful again (but more rare?).

I do like the idea of moving our current artifact ability to a baseline CD over the use of the Doomguard. I feel like we should have some sort of baseline proc that feels abit better to use than Compounding Horror. It just feels abit 'meh'.

- - - Updated - - -

Very cool idea. Tho I think instead of replacing affliction, this would be a cool 4th warlock spec. Tho I like 'Master of Souls', I think 'Soul Reaper' has a nice ring to it too for the spec name, not just an ability. Would be very interesting to convert it to a partial healing spec, like disc priest, where you'd be tapping your enemy's souls/life (and maybe your own as well) to heal your allies.

A 'Soul Reaper' spec would be such a neat thing for Warlocks. It would just need to be far more fleshed out with much less overlap than what I've provided. Sadly a 4th spec for anyone, not just warlocks, seems out of the question and if Affliction all of the sudden became a healer hybrid the cries from the community would be....rather muted actually. How many of us are there again?

Funny enough while I was creating this post I actually thought it would cool if through the spec it worked like a healer. Trading your life to cleanse/empower the souls of your teammates while on the other side of it that very energy that invigorated them was pain and agony for those that you got it from. Balancing life and death on our very shoulders sounds awesome. I've always enjoyed playing my warlock thinking that I personally wasn't "evil". I was just one of the few that was willing to do whatever necessary to give our side the advantage. Using the enemies own magic and tricks against them fit that perfectly.

[Cheapnecrolyte]

if you would like I'd be glad to read and discuss any changes you would like to see done to Affliction Warlocks in either a thematic or gameplay sense.

Lore-wise, warlocks don't have specializations because warlock magics are defined as demonic. Using demonic power to afflict enemies with curses? Demonology. Using demonic power to destroy enemies with curses? Still Demonology. Using demonic fire to burn enemies? Still Demonology.

I would, though, like destruction to be about using demonic fire AND fel curses to destroy and I would like to replace affliction with fel angelism. It would be about invoking dark naaru and using their twisted angelic power to heal and shield allies.

After all, demons were formed as a result of the Light and Void energies that had bled together at the borders of the Twisting Nether. It's entirely possible that a dark naaru's Light and Void energies can become unstable and coalesce into a nether portal/vortex that demons can be pulled from. It's entirely possible that warlocks can "invoke" dark naaru and summon netherwalkers that can shield their enemies from harm among other things. With fel angelism, you get your "ghosts" (or nether apparitions) and if warlocks can have more than one specialization, each warlockian specialization will at least seem different - at least to me anyways. With angelism, you invoke dark naaru and use twisted angelic power to heal and sheld. With demonology, you summon demons and give them physical forms, using them to destroy. With destruction, you merely "summon" demonic fire and fel energies emanating from demons and use them to destroy.

[Deleted]

Lore-wise, warlocks don't have specializations because warlock magics are defined as demonic. Using demonic power to afflict enemies with curses? Demonology. Using demonic power to destroy enemies with curses? Still Demonology. Using demonic fire to burn enemies? Still Demonology.

I would, though, like destruction to be about using demonic fire AND fel curses to destroy and I would like to replace affliction with fel angelism. It would be about invoking dark naaru and using their twisted angelic power to heal and shield allies.

After all, demons were formed as a result of the Light and Void energies that had bled together at the borders of the Twisting Nether. It's entirely possible that a dark naaru's Light and Void energies can become unstable and coalesce into a nether portal/vortex that demons can be pulled from. It's entirely possible that warlocks can "invoke" dark naaru and summon netherwalkers that can shield their enemies from harm among other things. With fel angelism, you get your "ghosts" (or nether apparitions) and if warlocks can have more than one specialization, each warlockian specialization will at least seem different - at least to me anyways. With angelism, you invoke dark naaru and use twisted angelic power to heal and sheld. With demonology, you summon demons and give them physical forms, using them to destroy. With destruction, you merely "summon" demonic fire and fel energies emanating from demons and use them to destroy.

Please never stop shining you crazy diamond. You make everyone else feel good about themselves.

[Deleted]

Please never stop shining you crazy diamond. You make everyone else feel good about themselves.

Indeed. No idea why we would want to be shadowpriests .

[Inci]

sounds fun, I like shadow bolt as a filler for affliction.