Pawn Stat Weights for Resto Shaman

[Deleted]

So from the release of the newest patch 7.1.5

Pawn addon has been updated with new resto stat weights it seems.

With Crit being so much more favored than Mastery.

I am a little confused by this because Mastery is so good. Especially in progress raids, where it is most likely a lot of raid members will be lower hp.

Im currently 894 Resto. The three best legendaries for healing. Gloves, Waist and Ring.

So im asking you guys what do you think? Does anyone have any current stat weights they are using for HC NH or even Normal NH. If so i would be very grateful if you could tell me.

I have a variety of gear where i could go very crit heavy around 40% and still keep 85+% Mastery.

Also with trinkets im using arcano crystal, and nightbane mastery trinket, and with gear my current build is around 110% mastery with 31% ish Crit. and 11-15% haste.

Thanks all.

[Auveanna]

The default stat weights in pawn are usually not going to be exactly right. I've never used them for more than a few minutes, so I can't really say much about how they've changed.

In general for Resto Shaman though, we use more of a priority system for stats than actual stat weights. It's described well here: https://rsham-faq.org/stats/

[Deleted]

ahh wasnt the answer im looking for to be honest but thanks for the information!

[ItsTiddles]

@Suo

I prefer @Koor 's spreadsheet for figuring out and adjusting stat weights. Here is the link.

[Deleted]

@TigerTiddles thanks man i saw this a few weeks ago! ill re try it!

[ItsTiddles]

@TigerTiddles thanks man i saw this a few weeks ago! ill re try it!

Only thing I have to say about it is for me it tends to recommend more haste, but I prefer to get to a comfortable amount (10% right now, maybe closer to 15% in mythic gear) and then lower the stat weight myself.

[nerf shaman]

I used that spreadsheet for a while, and it recommended a ridiculous amount of haste on my gear. I wore the gear it recommended, but I started to feel really weak doing high m+/mythic raiding. One day I swapped my gear around to get rid of all the haste, and I instantly felt the difference. I would not recommend that spreadsheet whatsoever. I'm currently sitting on ~10k crit (30%), ~10k mastery (100%), and a little bit of haste and vers here and there. This balanced crit/mastery >>>>> haste/vers setup feels really good to me. My only complaint is that I sometimes have to pay attention to overflowing due to my relatively high crit, but even still it is one of the easiest affixes.

[dadev]

I used that spreadsheet for a while, and it recommended a ridiculous amount of haste on my gear. I wore the gear it recommended, but I started to feel really weak doing high m+/mythic raiding. One day I swapped my gear around to get rid of all the haste, and I instantly felt the difference. I would not recommend that spreadsheet whatsoever. I'm currently sitting on ~10k crit (30%), ~10k mastery (100%), and a little bit of haste and vers here and there. This balanced crit/mastery >>>>> haste/vers setup feels really good to me. My only complaint is that I sometimes have to pay attention to overflowing due to my relatively high crit, but even still it is one of the easiest affixes.

It's just because the spreadsheet doesn't account for artifact traits nor for drape of shame. Once you work those two into the equations (good luck with queen's ascendant, you'll need it), it balances at roughly 1crit:1mastery:0.44haste.

[Deleted]

Update:

Currently running -
41k SP
28% Crit
18% Haste
100 -105% Mastery
5% leech

Works great in +15 which I completed Earlier today, unfortunately not in time due to a few cock ups in BRH

We were about 5 mins over.

haste is high though due to having the used the spread sheet recommendations and the haste items i have also have a lot of leech which is highly recommended. (leech should be good for NH progression)

[Koor]

I updated the spreadsheet to include the Queen's Ascendant trait, and added an option for Drape Of Shame:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

To use:

1. Select the "with artifact" tab (the "no artifact" tab are the old equations).
2. Select the number of Queen's Ascendant traits that you have (0 to 6) in cell B18 (default 3).
3. Choose whether you are using the Drape Of Shame cloak from kara (10% heal bonus to crits) in cell B19. Choosing 0 means no cloak (default), and 1 if you use the cloak.

This will increase the stat value of crit in cell E5.

I also corrected a significant error I made in the patch 7.1.5 stat adjustments -- I didn't adjust the value of intellect when comparing primary to secondary stats. The corrected version will have smaller coefficients for all the secondaries (except leech which wasn't nerfed), in line with the secondary stats nerf in 7.1.5.

Pawn string with my current gear, 3/3 queen's ascendant and without drape of shame cloak:

40.2k intellect
21.2% crit
13.55% haste
90.73% mastery
11.22% versatility
0% leech

( Pawn: v1: "resto": IsWand=-1000000, Indestructible=0.01, IsWarglaive=-1000000, MovementSpeed=0.01, HasteRating=0.946, MasteryRating=1.173, IsCrossbow=-1000000, IsPolearm=-1000000, IsGun=-1000000, IsFrill=-1000000, Avoidance=0.01, Intellect=1, IsBow=-1000000, IsOffHand=-1000000, IsSword=-1000000, CritRating=1.002, Leech=0.875, Versatility=0.762, IsPlate=-1000000, Stamina=0.01, Is2HSword=-1000000 )

[dadev]

I updated the spreadsheet to include the Queen's Ascendant trait, and added an option for Drape Of Shame:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

I modified this before, but now my results don't match to yours. There are two things I couldn't figure out:
1. What C18 cell represents? In all my calculations queen's ascendant factors in slightly differently.
2. In D4 in the last division term I don't have the drape of shame modifier term while you do (in (1+C18*(1+C19)*C5/100) the 1+C19 part). I went over my math but couldn't find anything wrong. I can paste you the details if you want to go over them.

Eventually in what I use the crit value is somewhat lower because I try also to account for spell usage. Most notably queen's ascendant doesn't benefit healing surge at all. While the trait can be forced with healing surge's high crit % (with tidal waves). Healing wave with tidal waves also doesn't get full benefit from queen's ascendant. There are also other traits that reduce crit's usefulness more directly.
But this doesn't really concern the spreadsheet in its current form, just in case you want to take a look at it.

[Koor]

I modified this before, but now my results don't match to yours. There are two things I couldn't figure out:
1. What C18 cell represents? In all my calculations queen's ascendant factors in slightly differently.
2. In D4 in the last division term I don't have the drape of shame modifier term while you do (in (1+C18*(1+C19)*C5/100) the 1+C19 part). I went over my math but couldn't find anything wrong. I can paste you the details if you want to go over them.

Thanks for verifying the equations, you are correct, the drape of shame modifier term (1+C19) part shouldn't be in the last division, I fixed it in the spreadsheet.

Cell C18 represents the "haste-like equivalent" benefit of QA. It's slightly modified vs using the percentages from the tooltip, since the tooltip "reduces cast time" rather than providing a haste-like value. For example with 4 points, cast time is reduced by 20%, which is equivalent to "haste-like" rating of 25% (1/(1-0.2)-1).

For those that want to cross-verify, this is the model I used:

L = (1+V)(1+(1+K)C)(1+H)(1+QC)[1+M(1-P)]SE

The new variables compared to the old model are K (0.1 with drape of shame, 0 without), and the QA equivalent haste factor Q (e.g. 0.25 with 4 points). Then the crit stat weights are calculated using the same method that I described in earlier posts, except the partial derivative calculation is more complex now.

Eventually in what I use the crit value is somewhat lower because I try also to account for spell usage. Most notably queen's ascendant doesn't benefit healing surge at all. While the trait can be forced with healing surge's high crit % (with tidal waves). Healing wave with tidal waves also doesn't get full benefit from queen's ascendant. There are also other traits that reduce crit's usefulness more directly.
But this doesn't really concern the spreadsheet in its current form, just in case you want to take a look at it.

Yes it starts to get complicated to try to add all the factors to the model, such models are only a rough starting guideline, so that at least we start with something that is based on math, and from there the stats can be modified according to personal preferences.

The most important parameter is the target HP percentage, which strongly affects the mastery weight -- the default there is 0.4, but it's really up to personal preference how much one values the heals on low HP targets vs on the average HP targets. Then there is the issue that crit is not a reliable stat, which is ignored by the model, that only looks on average. A crit can overheal and be wasted since it heals for a double amount, and on the other hand it can simply not crit when we need it (and then the tank can die). On the other hand haste and mastery are more "reliable" stats in the sense that there is no rng involved.

[Axelond]

I updated the spreadsheet to include the Queen's Ascendant trait, and added an option for Drape Of Shame:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

To use:

1. Select the "with artifact" tab (the "no artifact" tab are the old equations).
2. Select the number of Queen's Ascendant traits that you have (0 to 6) in cell B18 (default 3).
3. Choose whether you are using the Drape Of Shame cloak from kara (10% heal bonus to crits) in cell B19. Choosing 0 means no cloak (default), and 1 if you use the cloak.

This will increase the stat value of crit in cell E5.

I also corrected a significant error I made in the patch 7.1.5 stat adjustments -- I didn't adjust the value of intellect when comparing primary to secondary stats. The corrected version will have smaller coefficients for all the secondaries (except leech which wasn't nerfed), in line with the secondary stats nerf in 7.1.5.

Pawn string with my current gear, 3/3 queen's ascendant and without drape of shame cloak:

40.2k intellect
21.2% crit
13.55% haste
90.73% mastery
11.22% versatility
0% leech

( Pawn: v1: "resto": IsWand=-1000000, Indestructible=0.01, IsWarglaive=-1000000, MovementSpeed=0.01, HasteRating=0.946, MasteryRating=1.173, IsCrossbow=-1000000, IsPolearm=-1000000, IsGun=-1000000, IsFrill=-1000000, Avoidance=0.01, Intellect=1, IsBow=-1000000, IsOffHand=-1000000, IsSword=-1000000, CritRating=1.002, Leech=0.875, Versatility=0.762, IsPlate=-1000000, Stamina=0.01, Is2HSword=-1000000 )

This is what I got

With 2x Queen's ascendance relics and drape of shame crit should be very good. Maybe it's overvalued a bit with QA because it does not consider the chain heal trait and that chain heal hits 5 targets and only need to crit on of them to proc Queen's ascendance.

I had Leech 0.65 efficiency on High Botanist Tel'arn Heroic even with roots legs 4% leech did 2.93% of my healing. 0.65 health value I think is very realistic, on a lot of fights it's actually closer to 0.7 especially if you have good healers.

For everyone pawn values I think you need to do two things with your values. Bump up mastery value because even if the output is worse compared to crit, healing done to low health people is more valuable than healing to high health people.

Second thing is to lower haste value a bit, The math can't factor in the increased mana use. Compared to vers haste is more output but vers does not increase mana drain.

[Koor]

Yeah leech is insanely good, especially now that other secondary stats were nerfed, but leech wasn't changed. Not only does it do significant healing, all this massive healing is focused on us without wasting extra GCDs, so it helps keep us alive and turn our attention to healing other players.

The 0.5 efficiency value I used by default was based on an average of some of my mythic+ runs, but I haven't checked it in a while, it may very well be higher in raids. For anyone using the spreadsheet, you can calculate your own efficiency factor by looking on skada or warcraftlogs how much percentage was leech out of your healing, then dividing it by the leech percentage that you have on your character, and writing the result into cell B17.

[dadev]

Cell C18 represents the "haste-like equivalent" benefit of QA. It's slightly modified vs using the percentages from the tooltip, since the tooltip "reduces cast time" rather than providing a haste-like value. For example with 4 points, cast time is reduced by 20%, which is equivalent to "haste-like" rating of 25% (1/(1-0.2)-1).

That was a small facedesk moment for me. Of course you're correct, I just always plugged in QA's contribution directly as haste, and never really read into the tooltip too much. Just verified cast times and obviously you're right.
Now our raw models (when spells are not taken into account) match.

[LoNeWoLF020]

So even though I don't prefer it for healers, my guild is requiring a pawn string in order to help determine loot council upgrades. Right now I sit at around 104% mastery, 30% crit, and 10-12% haste, with 3/3 queens ascendant and no cloak. Using this spreadsheet it's valuing haste slightly above crit. Is this correct, considering everything I've always seen says value mastery then crit. Thanks!

[ItsTiddles]

So even though I don't prefer it for healers, my guild is requiring a pawn string in order to help determine loot council upgrades. Right now I sit at around 104% mastery, 30% crit, and 10-12% haste, with 3/3 queens ascendant and no cloak. Using this spreadsheet it's valuing haste slightly above crit. Is this correct, considering everything I've always seen says value mastery then crit. Thanks!

Take haste with a grain of salt. Haste is good to the point where you start losing too much mana for your output. You will get enough from other gear that you never really have to prioritize it.

( Pawn: v1: "Sub 50%": Intellect=1, Indestructible=0.01, Leech=0.913, CritRating=1.081, Versatility=0.891, HasteRating=1.021, MasteryRating=1.232, Stamina=0.01, MovementSpeed=0.01, Avoidance=0.01 )

Is the current string I'm using, updated 3 days ago. It's pretty close to what you've been told.

[LoNeWoLF020]

To follow up, utilizing the spreadsheet gives me mastery = 1.25, crit = 1.05, and haste = 1.07. Since I'm not a fan of all this math stuff, what is considered a reasonable amount to increase crit and decrease the haste stat weights without jacking everything up? Thanks again!

[Koor]

1.05 and 1.07 are very close, it means that with your current gear, more crit or more haste are equally beneficial for you. This is since you have a lot of crit (30%) compared to haste (10%-12%) -- the more you have of a stat, the less beneficial it is to continue stacking it, so it's good to maintain a balance of stats.

If you prefer to gear more using crit, you can use more Queen's Ascendant relics to increase QA beyond 3/3, that would increase the value of crit for you.