PvP non-tower World Quests should last twelve hours

[Krom2040]

It seems clear to me that for the vast majority of us regular peasants, doing the arena-style PvP world quests is considerably the fastest and most reliable way to gain honor. It also happens to be a good way to obtain the PvP transmogs, which is a motivator for a lot of players as well. While the tower quests are

As a person who has foolishly determined to try to obtain the Prestige artifact appearances, this presents what I consider to be an annoying and unhealthy gameplay model. NOTHING in the game should entice you to feel obligated to log in every six hours. EVEN for somebody who acknowledges that getting players to keep logging in for months on end, this represents the kind of unreasonable, obsession-encouraging grind that eventually drives players to just acknowledge that the game is demanding too much from them and quit playing altogether. I would hope this would be clear to even most grizzled tryhards.

And this is to say nothing about the irritating tendency of these quests to get covered up by invasions, or even the insane Honor requirements of the Prestige system in the first place.

The fix is simple enough: Have the quests spawn every six hours, but last for twelve. Or perhaps even better, spawn every 12 hours and last for 24, and just award more Honor.

They need to do *something* about this situation, and avoid repeating it in the future.

[Crysth]

As someone working the standard 9-5 style job, being able to get all three Warden Towers and 2 "Free-For-All" PvP world quests is easily doable and really all you'll need if you're looking for the prestige achievements. This will be the WQ that starts at 4pm CST and the one that spawns at 10pm CST.

If you min-max, you can use a Battle Standard of Coordination for all three towers (bring a friend to cycle the cooldowns, or wait between towers) to bump them from 300 honor to 345 honor. Unfortunately, this standard no longer works on the "Free-For-All" (I use this term, since you can group in all but Black Rook Rumble) except for Black Rook Rumble, which it is still enabled on. However timing it so you don't die while it's up can be disappointing if you mess up. This will bump it from 500 honor to 575.

If you are a class that has the Class Hall upgrade that enables you to complete a non-elite WQ every 18 hours (I know Paladins and Warriors have this), just use it on one of the inconvenient timed WQs. Just log on before going to work, drop your Standard, complete the quest and log off to head out. Also, the Standard DOES work for ALL FFA PvP WQs if you use this Class Hall upgrade.

Doing all this will get you 1900 honor per day minimum (topping out around 2700 honor), depending on if you do 2 or 3 FFA WQs, and how well you make use of Battle Standard of Coordination. This is basically a guaranteed 2-3 levels per day at the mid-high range honor levels. If you are diligent and do this every day, or most every day, you'll get all the way through prestiges fairly quickly (can get 2 prestiges in almost a month, if you do it every day). Personally, I wouldn't worry about the one during the midday (or the one that falls in the middle of your work/school shift). I have to miss this one, and even after stopping doing this for afew months due to changing mains for a while, I'm still prestige 7 and making good progress. Reached 7 on 4/9 and am honor level 38, and haven't been overly diligent about min-maxing (only doing a few RBGs for the AP every couple of days, so that hasn't been crazy impactful, though it is a good source if you win).

Although, I will agree that invasions overriding these quests are annoying, especially since invasions have a tendency to last a good while longer than their timers say, which cna extend them barely longer than the WQ will last. This has definitely screwed me out of a lot of honor from the WQs. IMO, if you complete the scenario, the invasion should go away for you, so you can go onto the other WQs.

[Fahrenheit]

As the poster above me stated, you can make good progress just with about 30-45 mins of play time a day.
3 Tower quests - 1035 honor
2-3 Brawls - 1000-1500 honor
Win 1 random BG a day 600-1000 honor

That's 2635 - 3535 honor every day for less than a hour's worth of play. That equates to approximately 1 prestige level every two weeks or so. It'll still take you months of constant play to get to third (most advanced) artifact appearance, but that's the nature of the grindy MMO beast.

[EviForums]

You don't need to log in every 6 hours if your working day fits - you need to log on twice.

I get up at 07:30, do one over breakfast, quests reset at 08:00, do the second. In the evening I log on at 19:30, do the third, then at 20:00 do the final one.

[Krom2040]

I don't know what points you all are trying to make, at least to the extent that you feel it contradicts my initial assertions.

Yes, you *can* log in ten minutes before the reset and again twelve hours later and do both quests. That's still a ridiculous imposition on anybody with stuff to do in their lives. Relatively few people can reliably log in at exactly the same time twice a day. People should not be *obligated* to gain a large benefit from logging in at exactly the same time twice a day.

A hypothetical player who logs on from a somewhat normal schedule of 7:00pm to 10:00pm will, on my server, be able to complete exactly *one* of these world quests, unless they're willing to continue to stay up over an hour to wait for the next respawn.

Sure, practically any situation in the game can be responded to with some kind of "yeah, but if you just..." counter that happens to require a life that revolves around a video game, but that doesn't imply that the design is fine when it requires that. For some reason you can log on every once every three days to complete Emissary quests, but have to change your lifestyle to suit PvP quests.

[Trollfat]

Towers are stupid and don't actually involve PvP. I would rather they be removed/reworked.

[DeicideUH]

FFA WQs are fine. Some of them are even fun. (Thought the Murloc one needs to forbid flying once you land in that area. All those flying guys just waiting for a victim to appear bellow really killed it).

Towers are stupid and don't actually involve PvP. I would rather they be removed/reworked.

Yes.

There should be only one tower active per zone, both factions go to the same place. One faction controls the power, the other is besieging it. Put a field with explosions, flying mobs throwing dangers everywhere. Make multiple bosses for each faction, one of them as strong as those mobs for rare WQs. Put objectives to be conquered that give advantages to your faction (quick mount, stronger troops, summon mini-bosses, summon flying troops, summon NPC siege engines that hit the field). Objective is to fill your bar. Taking objectives, killing players and downing the main enemy boss gives more points than killing random troops.

[Krom2040]

Towers are stupid and don't actually involve PvP. I would rather they be removed/reworked.

My original post explicitly refers to the PvP quests that *aren't* tower quests...

[Crysth]

I don't know what points you all are trying to make, at least to the extent that you feel it contradicts my initial assertions.

Yes, you *can* log in ten minutes before the reset and again twelve hours later and do both quests. That's still a ridiculous imposition on anybody with stuff to do in their lives. Relatively few people can reliably log in at exactly the same time twice a day. People should not be *obligated* to gain a large benefit from logging in at exactly the same time twice a day.

A hypothetical player who logs on from a somewhat normal schedule of 7:00pm to 10:00pm will, on my server, be able to complete exactly *one* of these world quests, unless they're willing to continue to stay up over an hour to wait for the next respawn.

Sure, practically any situation in the game can be responded to with some kind of "yeah, but if you just..." counter that happens to require a life that revolves around a video game, but that doesn't imply that the design is fine when it requires that. For some reason you can log on every once every three days to complete Emissary quests, but have to change your lifestyle to suit PvP quests.

So we respond, stating that it's not as bad as you think (giving you numbers), and you respond with... you're too busy? Even with one FFA WQ and all 3 towers, you get 1400 honor minimum. That's 1.4 levels per day at Honor Level 40+ (just hit 41 and it takes 1k for 42). That isn't bad at all, it'll take you just under a month per prestige (I, unfortunately, do not have the exact total honor need to go from 1-50). If you aren't willing to make the time, that's your fault and your loss. Blizzard has no reason to change it (it's more realistic than it was, when it towers and the FFA WQs changed every 3 hours). You are in no way obligated to do any of this.

[Teri]

Towers are stupid and don't actually involve PvP. I would rather they be removed/reworked.

Darkbrul Arena, Bareback Brawl are often PvE-ish too, at least on my PvE realm.

The awful spawnrate on Murloc freedom promotes pvp, and Black Rook Rumble only spawns the npc when solo.

[Krom2040]

So we respond, stating that it's not as bad as you think (giving you numbers), and you respond with... you're too busy? Even with one FFA WQ and all 3 towers, you get 1400 honor minimum. That's 1.4 levels per day at Honor Level 40+ (just hit 41 and it takes 1k for 42). That isn't bad at all, it'll take you just under a month per prestige (I, unfortunately, do not have the exact total honor need to go from 1-50). If you aren't willing to make the time, that's your fault and your loss. Blizzard has no reason to change it (it's more realistic than it was, when it towers and the FFA WQs changed every 3 hours). You are in no way obligated to do any of this.

*I'm* not too busy, as I have little enough of a life to do them all every day. I imagine for people who do have a life, this is a very annoying imposition. Even for me, without a life, it's obnoxious to feel like I have to babysit the game every six hours and be online at exactly the right time or lose out on 50% of the easy honor.

The prevailing "counterargument", if you can call it that, is "you'll get it eventually anyway", which is kind of a silly thing to say about something that literally takes over seven months if you every *every single world quest every single day*. It's a truly outrageous amount of time taken by any standard.

Let me see if I can phrase this yet a different way: If you're putting in the time to do the quests, then you should get the benefit without having to schedule your entire day around it. Your progress is greatly inhibited if you don't. If you log on once a day and do all the quests, you get 1400 Honor; if you do all of them, you get 2900. You'll progress literally less than half as fast.

[Crysth]

*I'm* not too busy, as I have little enough of a life to do them all every day. I imagine for people who do have a life, this is a very annoying imposition. Even for me, without a life, it's obnoxious to feel like I have to babysit the game every six hours and be online at exactly the right time or lose out on 50% of the easy honor.

The prevailing "counterargument", if you can call it that, is "you'll get it eventually anyway", which is kind of a silly thing to say about something that literally takes over seven months if you every *every single world quest every single day*. It's a truly outrageous amount of time taken by any standard.

Let me see if I can phrase this yet a different way: If you're putting in the time to do the quests, then you should get the benefit without having to schedule your entire day around it. Your progress is greatly inhibited if you don't. If you log on once a day and do all the quests, you get 1400 Honor; if you do all of them, you get 2900. You'll progress literally less than half as fast.

It's not a required grind however, it's a self-imposed grind. You are the one making yourself feel obligated to log on as soon as they spawn to complete them. Yes, not camping them can increase the time needed to twice as long, but you have an entire expansion to work your way up.

At least you get rewards, like AP and gold. If you want to know a grind, farm Black Prince rep on a new toon. I missed out on playing in MoP, and would like to farm those reps... I can get 500 rep per week (550 when DMF is up). Takes 70+ weeks to get to exalted.

[Krom2040]

It's not a required grind however, it's a self-imposed grind.

Like... you know that this is a video game and that everything you choose to do is self-imposed? I'm not really sure you're looking at this in an approriate context if your statement makes sense to you. The fact that everything is optional doesn't mean that it's fine for some things to be arbitrarily painful.

Once again, they made emissary quests stack up for three whole days so they'd be less of a daily obligation. Why are these PvP quests so contradictory to that design ethic?

[Crysth]

Like... you know that this is a video game and that everything you choose to do is self-imposed? I'm not really sure you're looking at this in an approriate context if your statement makes sense to you. The fact that everything is optional doesn't mean that it's fine for some things to be arbitrarily painful.

Once again, they made emissary quests stack up for three whole days so they'd be less of a daily obligation. Why are these PvP quests so contradictory to that design ethic?

You can take a nihilist look at EVERYTHING and define it as self-imposed. It was meant in the confines of this game (duh), it's self-imposed since it's purely aesthetic (beyond Prestige 0) and has no impact on your gameplay, unlike gear. And it's not even painful. You get rewards of gold and AP as you progress. Painful is Shaohao and Black Prince, since they are lots of effort for little-to-no reward.

At some point, you have to have a cut off and essentially say "you snooze, you lose". Otherwise, why not have every quest and WQ in the game repeatable indefinitely until you have everything you could ever need? They keep WQs rotating with shorter and longer timers, so that people will feel the need to get out and explore the world Blizz created.

If the quests were up 24hr, like you initially suggested, why not have them reset daily? Well, then you'd have people complaining about needing to set down and grind every tower and brawl at once, on all toons they care to. It'd add to the feeling of "obligatory grinding" which is what the emissary stacking was meant to curb. The WQ areas would be fairly desolate outside of peak times, since that's when large chunks of the population will be getting home and beginning their tour of dailies. This is antithesis to the point of WQs and their timers.

[Snowfunk]

Why?

Even if you miss one, a new one will spawn.

Does it really bother you that much, that people with more time get to do more than you? Stop being a kid.