Gameplay immersion in WoW is TERRIBLE

[Darsithis]

The damage numbers have gotten large because every time things get stronger. If we were dealing less damage than what we did at lower levels, then THAT would break immersion. Higher level means you are stronger, and your damage numbers need to be higher. Your inability to process numbers larger than a few hundreds is entirely yours. The fact that they appear too quickly might be a reasonable thing to complain about, but we don't live in a void. Addons exist. You can't pretend that they don't. The developers can't pretend that they don't either.

There is a problem with numbers, though, but it's not something I think the developers can truly fix without just regular squishes, and that's the exponential curve of growth from tier to tier. You can't just always increase by 5% because that 5% grows larger and larger each time. 5% of 100 is only 5, but 5% of 1,000,000 is 50,000, which is 10,000 times larger of a jump from 5.

So when people bitch about numbers, I get it. I get that our item levels are starting to feel meaningless. What difference is there, in my head, between 75 and 100 of a secondary stat jump on a stat that already has 2000? Not much, really, that extra 100 probably translates into .05% of any kind of meaningful change in my overall DPS. Whereas a jump from 10 to 15 at a low item level is a whole 50% boost of the stat and would be very noticeable.

But what can they really do about it? You have to feel like you're getting stronger, and gear seems to be the best way to do that at the moment.

[Khallid]

There is a problem with numbers, though, but it's not something I think the developers can truly fix without just regular squishes, and that's the exponential curve of growth from tier to tier. You can't just always increase by 5% because that 5% grows larger and larger each time. 5% of 100 is only 5, but 5% of 1,000,000 is 50,000, which is 10,000 times larger of a jump from 5.

So when people bitch about numbers, I get it. I get that our item levels are starting to feel meaningless. What difference is there, in my head, between 75 and 100 of a secondary stat jump on a stat that already has 2000? Not much, really, that extra 100 probably translates into .05% of any kind of meaningful change in my overall DPS. Whereas a jump from 10 to 15 at a low item level is a whole 50% boost of the stat and would be very noticeable.

But what can they really do about it? You have to feel like you're getting stronger, and gear seems to be the best way to do that at the moment.

I'm not entirely sure what your point is, because what you wrote is inconsistent with how WoW manages stats. Raising Haste, for example, from 10 to 15, does not increase your overal power by 50%. Nor does, any other main stat or secondary stat. None of the skills do [STR score] amount of damage, they all do a base damage plus an additive effect based on attack power. There never have been power increases of that magnitude in WoW. And that's perfectly fine. This only makes me think that you fundamentally misrepresent how your stats affect your output, or you're not very good at math. In any case, it doesn't really matter, if you want to feel a power explosion when you level up, you can play another game.

Conversely, just get gear. DPS in ToS is about 3 or 4 times larger than it was in Emerald Nightmare. Is that not enough for you?

I've played other games where big stat increases do happen. In Dungeons and dragons you get the same amount of health every level (plus or minus the dice roll), so at level 2 you have twice the health you had at level 1, making you 100% less squishy. Or if you're a caster your output can increase by a factor of 10 mid-game when you get powerful AoE spells from a higher level. But it doesn't matter, the game has different damage mechanics. Nobody should go around saying the game is broken one way or the other because it isn't.

[Deleted]

There is a problem with numbers, though, but it's not something I think the developers can truly fix without just regular squishes, and that's the exponential curve of growth from tier to tier. You can't just always increase by 5% because that 5% grows larger and larger each time. 5% of 100 is only 5, but 5% of 1,000,000 is 50,000, which is 10,000 times larger of a jump from 5.

So when people bitch about numbers, I get it. I get that our item levels are starting to feel meaningless. What difference is there, in my head, between 75 and 100 of a secondary stat jump on a stat that already has 2000? Not much, really, that extra 100 probably translates into .05% of any kind of meaningful change in my overall DPS. Whereas a jump from 10 to 15 at a low item level is a whole 50% boost of the stat and would be very noticeable.

But what can they really do about it? You have to feel like you're getting stronger, and gear seems to be the best way to do that at the moment.

Just leave it like it is? It's just a number.

[Darsithis]

I'm not entirely sure what your point is, because what you wrote is inconsistent with how WoW manages stats. Raising Haste, for example, from 10 to 15, does not increase your overal power by 50%. Nor does, any other main stat or secondary stat. None of the skills do [STR score] amount of damage, they all do a base damage plus an additive effect based on attack power. There never have been power increases of that magnitude in WoW. And that's perfectly fine. This only makes me think that you fundamentally misrepresent how your stats affect your output, or you're not very good at math. In any case, it doesn't really matter, if you want to feel a power explosion when you level up, you can play another game.

Conversely, just get gear. DPS in ToS is about 3 or 4 times larger than it was in Emerald Nightmare. Is that not enough for you?

I've played other games where big stat increases do happen. In Dungeons and dragons you get the same amount of health every level (plus or minus the dice roll), so at level 2 you have twice the health you had at level 1, making you 100% less squishy. Or if you're a caster your output can increase by a factor of 10 mid-game when you get powerful AoE spells from a higher level. But it doesn't matter, the game has different damage mechanics. Nobody should go around saying the game is broken one way or the other because it isn't.

I didn't say it's broken. I didn't say that's how stats work, I know that 10 to 15 in Haste isn't a flat 50% boost to your damage (but it is 50% more haste than you had before). I was just remarking on the exponential power increase and how it has to be larger and larger each tier in order to achieve the same bonus, something the developers have talked about more than once.

Perhaps I was too wordy or misspoke. I was sympathizing with people who complain about the numbers, but also pointing out that there isn't really a good solution that I can think of, nor have the developers. That's all.

Just leave it like it is? It's just a number.

The number isn't the problem I was referring to.

[Dawon]

Fuck off and stop playing then?

Pretty much this tbh... leave us alone.. we dont need your stupid reasons for why you hate this and that.. NOONE CARES!!!.. Just quit already without feeling the need to let the whole world know about it!! Jesus people and their fucking belief that us around them care if they like a game or not... just GO!

[Sargerus]

Blizzard stated several times that gameplay convenience is a priority over everything else. Metzen even said at Blizzcon that in a immersive world, Warlocks would never be allowed to run through cities alongside their demon pets. But they do in-game to facilitate the gameplay.

[Super Kami Dende]

I guess that main thing OP fucked up about is the fact he took Battlegrounds as something Canon.

instanced PvP is a joke in WoW and should be disregarded as any part of canon or immersion.

[Pull My Finger]

-

Shut up, you don't even know what you're talking about. "Gameplay immersion" lol.

[Pony Soldier]

I agree with the OP to an extent. Thing is when you've played for around 10 years like I have and you've done the same quests, explored the same areas, completed the same dungeons over and over again you kind of start wanting faster ways of doing things. It just becomes more of a chore to get out of the way rather than an experience.

So I'm on both sides here as I can understand both points.

[therealstegblob]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...chair%20Expert - I think you know what I meant....

I did. I was just making a joke that, for the most part, video game development (on the side of concepting and creative design) is more or less armchair philosophy. It's not like a tuned-mind couldn't critique the choices of 'professional' developers, especially when most high-level developers at places like Blizzard and other meglo-studios got to their positions through social connections and networking instead of any actual merit at their craft.

[rogueMatthias]

To be fair, Blizz really have removed a lot of the "RP" from MMORPG.

Sure, it was a pain when I had to carry lock picking tools and stocking up on flash powder, but I really think a lot of these elements really added to the characters of the class and the game.

There's definately a line between character-immersion and ease-of-gameplay. I think Blizzards gone a bit too far away from the class character, though order halls were a pretty clear way of them trying to inject a little of this back,

[Eliessa]

most people that are players and former players agree that the golden age of the mmo is over and it is in a steady decline.

wrong. mmos are held in a headlock by wow. the decline of mmos you see is not the decline of the genre but of wow. as long wow exists you will not see much innovation because no one will take the risk. just play safe, just give the wow experience.

a shame because tech advanced so ridiculous since 2005

[therealstegblob]

Yeah...I think I remember people accusing Ghostcrawler of coming from the area of marine science. But there is a danger here where everybody thinks they can now say everyone can critique everything and could theoretically do everything better.

But anyhow..it is interesting when you read up on the history of how the game industry developed or how companies like Blizzard were founded.

Sooooo..yeah..you have a point, many successful businesses were created by people risking things, thinking outside the box etc etc etc...but at the end of the day it doesn't mean that every random jock on an internet forum with a brainfart needs my utmost respect for his....brainfarts

Oh no, I'm not saying that the OP had very good points or that he was bringing up legitimate philosophy or anything. Just musing that "game design philosophy" isn't a solid science. A lot of well-thinking people can come up with a sensible (if not agreeable to everyone else) theory for how to approach developing a video game.

And yeah, Ghostcrawler was a marine biologist before being hired at Blizzard (pretty much for being a company buddy). Hell, Chris Metzen was originally hired just as an artist/animator. It was his passion for creative development that threw him up the company ranks and into actual writing position.

[xalai]

I agree with the OP about the lack of immersion.

I think Blizzard fanbois should stop dissing him, and contribute to the community by considering constructively how each of his points may be given improvement.

[bewbew]

Are you serious?

MMOs are not the place for immersion. Go play a single player, sandbox, open world RPG of some sort if that's what you're after.

[squishycans]

Yeah, I understand you OP. I made an account just to say that I get it and I felt the same way. Left the game after Wrath of the Lich King and even played before the expansions came out. I tried coming back with the new expansion, but it just got stale after like a week. It's just not intriguing anymore.

The game aimed a lot more for immersion when it started; even leveling up in the starting levels was interesting. Exploring the world and actually reading the quests and lore and actually playing with other people and helping each other out, instead of queuing in one spot was fun. People used to talk in chat and you had to invest a little more and find friends to get stuff done (but also more rewarding). But I'm also not the type of person that likes Call of Duty, Overwatch, LoL, CS, games like that. And I think it's all about catering to those people now because they happen to be the masses. And the masses just want their instant-gratification dopamine hits. And that's why you're getting all these shitty replies.

But I get it. The player used to feel like part of the world and have a connection to the other players. Now it's taken over by the button mashing action gamers that want quick action-packed sessions.