Soft caps for fire mage?

[Deleted]

Looking at icyveins

mastery
vers/haste
int
crit

Is there some sort of haste cap or whatever? I get gear with crit/mastery and throw away gear with haste/crit for example. I am at 13% haste as of now. Not close to full geared but i'd like to know when it is worth losing haste for mastery, or maybe it always is?

[Rakaji]

AFAIK, that stat weighting is for when you are very well geared and also are using Koralon's.

[Alvito]

It is a never static cluster of numbers based on your legendary items, set bonuses, talent choices, encounters you are fighting, the difficulty of the fights, group make up and extra roles you might have. Sadly there are few generic answers and the ones out there are wrong as often as they are right. Sim yourself and keep doing it, take that information and apply it and see how that changes what you are doing.

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If you have the legendary belt, ToS 2 set and talent into firestarter with a high enough item level that order you posted might be correct for your character. As any of those things change your weights will too, in some cases drastically.

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You want your spells to crit, the reason it can be or is devalued for many right now is talents or gear that makes things crit automatically. Mix in abilities that always crit and the stat crit becomes worth less. If you go too low on crit though your damage outside of combustion and from 90% to 30% on mobs is just going to be awful.

[Deleted]

It is a never static cluster of numbers based on your legendary items, set bonuses, talent choices, encounters you are fighting, the difficulty of the fights, group make up and extra roles you might have. Sadly there are few generic answers and the ones out there are wrong as often as they are right. Sim yourself and keep doing it, take that information and apply it and see how that changes what you are doing.

(...)

Can't stress this enough, spot on.

Yesterday I spent about four hours on raidbots.com again to optimize my four sets for fire (pure ST, 2-target cleave, LB-based AOE, FP-based AOE), each of them very different from the others. I won't go into the details for every setup, but this is how I generally approach gear optimization:

1. Take the big decisions before you take the small ones. Start optimizing a setup by picking the talents according to the fight you're looking at. Then pick the legendaries, not forgetting about the utility they provide. After that you decide which tier set bonuses you want to run and only after that you start to look at stat weights. Sim different combinations as you move down this priority list and keep in mind that your choices interact with each other.

2. Experiment. Like, a lot. Stat weights aren't static and you need to get a feeling for their behaviour as you vary your sim settings. For example, put together an AOE setup and see how both DPS and stat weights change as you change the number of targets and the fight duration. Both the orders and the values can move around a lot, so you may need to decide (for example) if you want to be more prepared for a short or for a long fight.

3. Only trust your own results. Most people have no clue what they are talking about, how to use simcraft or how to put the statistics it produces into the right context. Most importantly, they don't put the effort into it and stick to feelycraft if you ask them. Even comprehensible rankings done by very competent people need to be taken with a grain of salt because you're forced to fix a lot of impactful variables when doing such a comparison.

Happy simming.

[Zenfoldor]

As mentioned, most crap you hear is wrong. IE: Keep crit above 50% as fire, ect

Use sims. I took some heat recently for claiming that sims > general perception that crit is best for fire mages. I was and am right. Even the blue post the other day used crit and fire mages as the obvious secondary to spec into. They did this because of general perception. If, for example, you run firestarter, owl, shark, belt, and bracers, you will likely sim crit very low relative to other stats, and that's okay. There is no magic soft cap as fire. You should believe the sims, not the community. If you have doubts, it is a lot easier to understand the sims than to understand the community.

Honestly, QoL isn't real either, unless you prefer to be happy with your arcadey procs and do bad dps. Even if you are fully optimized, skill and rng will play a big part, so you have to have everything as right as possible for stuff you can control. You do this via sims.

The biggest factor in sims that you should probably play around with: number of ads and length of encounter. Look at your raid last week and program it according to weekly increases to get what you should be speced or geared as this week.

[Deleted]

As mentioned, most crap you hear is wrong. IE: Keep crit above 50% as fire, ect

(... ) Even the blue post the other day used crit and fire mages as the obvious secondary to spec into. They did this because of general perception.

(...)

This. It made me mad to read a blue propagating that myth.

[HuxNeva]

By all means sim, but also learn *why* the sim is producing the values and what might apply or not-apply to your particular fight. e.g. a .5% dmg increase of a vers/mastery heavy set vs. a haste/crit set may be real, but the crit/haste may be far more robust in the face of unpredictable movement. Also, unles your raid issues are dps constrained (and yes, ofc more dps can compensate for many other things), sometimes adding a prydaz for alleviating healer pressure, or keeping a belt > ring because of the mobility it provides in execution might still be a preferred option.

[klaps_05]

throw away gear with haste/crit for example

Never throw away gear unless the ilevel difference is too high. For example, i am currently 944 ilevel and would save ALL gear from 925 and above, from 920 and above for necks/rings as there is a lot of jewerly with 75/25 split on secondaries (e.g. Guldan ring - fat Mastery and a bit of haste).

Ontopic - icy veins is the basic for gearing. However if you want to play proper, sim yourself. Caps are not relevant anymore. Haste and high vers builds only really work well if you are progressing Mythic where the 100-90% and sub-30% hp take a while to take off, as in, you spend a lot of time in those phases due to how fat the bosses HPs are and how the belt works.

If your mage is totally new and you have no legendaries, then aim for 15% mastery, 30% crit, 20% haste and as much vers as possible afterwards. Legendaries and high ilevel items have a big impact on your stats and can completely change your stat priority.

[Deleted]

Never throw away gear unless the ilevel difference is too high. For example, i am currently 944 ilevel and would save ALL gear from 925 and above, from 920 and above for necks/rings as there is a lot of jewerly with 75/25 split on secondaries (e.g. Guldan ring - fat Mastery and a bit of haste).

Agreed, you can't optimize if you don't have choices.

Ontopic - icy veins is the basic for gearing.

No, raidbots.com is.

However if you want to play proper, sim yourself.

Yes. Great stuff so far, why not stop there?

Caps are not relevant anymore.

Except for Frost, where reaching the critcap (33.4%) still does matter. Simulations have a known issue with the weights close to the cap, but that's a purely technical problem caused by the way the calculation works. The simulation adds extra stats which will put you over the cap, then recalculates the weights. For this reason the weights already drop ahead of the cap. I know this thread is on fire, but since we moved on to general issues, sweeping generalizations should be made with care.

Haste and high vers builds only really work well if you are progressing Mythic where the 100-90% and sub-30% hp take a while to take off, as in, you spend a lot of time in those phases due to how fat the bosses HPs are and how the belt works.

If your mage is totally new and you have no legendaries, then aim for 15% mastery, 30% crit, 20% haste and as much vers as possible afterwards.

Feelycraft. Prime example of what I mentioned earlier. I claim that you should aim for at least 16% mastery, 29% crit, 21% haste and as little vers as possible in general, just because it seems fun and easy to throw out arbitrary numbers.

Legendaries and high ilevel items have a big impact on your stats and can completely change your stat priority.

Legendaries yes, high item levels not really. More of a stat will always reduce a stat weight, but if changing a piece of gear changes your stat priority you've either reached optimum or you're exchanging non-priority stats.

[klaps_05]

snip

Spelled base wrong, I meant that it is the base you build upon. If you have never played the class before, it gives you the very basics of the class.

Thread about Fire, I talk about Fire, Frost caps are irrelevant.

At low gear level you are most likely not tryharding as without tier 1 legendaries you dont have a set "goal" for stats. The stats I listed provide you with a smooth way to play Fire. Ýes, they are not set in stone, they are an estimated stat distribution to play Fire easily for a new player. Not everyone wants to sim all the time or perform at 99% of his 5th alt, or at least until they get their desired legendaries.

When you get a few 945/950 int-items with crit/haste, you can easily have your belt offset by shoulders. It was a retour to the first statement of "deleting items I dont need" by OP, hence why you should not be deleting items. If he keeps aiming for X/Y stat items, but keeps getting A/B 2ndaries, then changing to a different lego can net him a lot more dps. Changing to a different lego = changed stat priority.