**Mists of Pandaria/Class Changes Discussion**

[Deleted]

Would kinda enjoy having Dragons Breath as a Frost mage (pvp). And pom sheep with 10% regen.
No talents wich really impacts dps, wich maybe is abit boring for pve peoples - mostly utillity. I could imagine the "Specialization" window will have alot more in it than now, profiling Arcane, Fire and Frost playstyles.

[Torian kel]

Have you noticed the difference between presence of mind ( mage ) and nature's swiftness ( shaman ) ? THey both have the SAME EFFECT butthe shaman version is 30 second cd shorter and passively gives 5% haste. But yeah, np

[Deleted]

I have been a reader of these forums for a long time but today I felt it was time to make an account. I'm not feeling these new talents at all. Talent for CoC? C'mon? I guess we will have to wait and see for changes, maybe we will do fine anyways. But I hope to god that they come up with something better.

[Swizzle]

Have you noticed the difference between presence of mind ( mage ) and nature's swiftness ( shaman ) ? THey both have the SAME EFFECT butthe shaman version is 30 second cd shorter and passively gives 5% haste. But yeah, np

Shamans also deal less DPS than 2/3 (soon to be 3/3) of our specs. it seems like the class I've played for years has turned into an entitled bunch who feel that unless a talent increases our damage by 90384098249083%, it isn't worth anything.

I think you're giving it too much credit. Mana shield, seriously? Cold snap is a joke now....Dragon's breath? I don't even know where to begin. And it should be noted that no one would care if mages obtained some awesome fundamental changes (like locks), but nope, nothing.

Unless mana shield is buffed by 300% at least, and Dragon's breath now shoots out fire 40 yards in front of the caster for 20,000 damage, then yeah, no excuses.

I am praying that these are placeholders.

Proof positive.

[Styxz]

T1 gives nice choices for PvE and PvP CC, which, contrary to popular belief, used to be a MAJOR part of the game. If this is any sign of needing more of it, I'm all for it.

T2 again provides utility, which I am an avid fan of. Remember kids, there's more to raiding, PvP, and DPS than just pure damage.

T3 has the most weeeeeeeee moments for me when I was reading it. Being able to choose between having a single instant cast spell or being able to cast while moving. Another thing that can separate good Mages from the LOL I HATE EVERYTHING CROWD.

T4 is the least exciting, but still gives a choice in what kind of survivability you want.

T5 is a tier that, if you don't like, you didn't farm the Turtle or Pig Polymorph spells.

Again, I've granted the last tier is nothing special, but I think people are confusing "renamed" with "new". Having looked over all the other talents for the other classes...a lot of them simply aren't new EFFECTS, but new names in new places. Further more, we don't know the full extent of class changes, just talent changes. Who knows, we might not need any padding in super fancy talents since we'll be doing fine anyway.

I mean yeah but some classes really did get new stuff.

DK's 90 tier is freaking redic and they got the LK spell from HOR. Lock are...freaking awesome. Preist? I mean i can go on but you get the picture I'm sure.

Who knows? Maybe we get a ton of new class abilities or something.

[Deleted]

Have you noticed the difference between presence of mind ( mage ) and nature's swiftness ( shaman ) ? THey both have the SAME EFFECT butthe shaman version is 30 second cd shorter and passively gives 5% haste. But yeah, np

Shamans taking NS would on the other hand have to leave out overload and ele mastery - they prolly had to beef NS up abit.
Would really like to se the Mages specialization tab, to gouge how the different playstyles will be.

[Imnick]

They're useful but they aren't exciting
They might be practical and handy but I wanted fireworks and explosions ):

[Swizzle]

They're useful but they aren't exciting
They might be practical and handy but I wanted fireworks and explosions ):

I suppose there's always the whole part of the actual class changes coming out tomorrow and the beta. These are only talents.

[Demonixx187]

Wow what a Morning so far!. Hmm where to begin.....Ok at first Glance some of our New talent tiers are really cool (Double Poly ftw!).
But as a whole its seems underwhelming. our lvl 90 choices are most likely placeholders if not most of the tiers. However if they are not who knows how powerful we will be at lvl 90 maybe our new specs will have mechanics that make the tier talents insanely strong?. At this point QQ about the trees is beyond foolish remember how many times talents were changed before Wrath? Before Cata?. Blizzard has generally always been really good to Mages. Furthermore as if all the other classes will get Weeeeeeeeee talents and we will be left out in the Cold. The new Xpac looks Sick and ill actually not be playing as much swtor as i thought. Also during the stream prior to the opening Ceremony Geoff From Gametrailers.com made mention of MOP being playable at Blizzcon!!. So I say at least wait till after the Q&A panel tommorow before you guys go off and start cancelling your accounts. Now a days The Devs are great at taking and using player feedback. If you don't believe me look at the Fire Mage changes in 4.3. those changes came directly off mage fourms across multiple sites let's be patient and see how the Cards fall.

[DeveraPM]

Tier 1 Lvl 15
Ring of Frost
Cone of Cold (Freezes + Slows)
Frostjaw (1.5 Sec Cast... Silences + Freezes for 8 Sec/4 sec in pvp) *Replaces Counterspell?*

Tier 2 Lvl 30
Greater Invisibility (Same as now + removes 2 dots)
Cauterize
Cold Snap (8 min cd. Resets Ice Block, Frost Nova and Water Elemental) *Water Ele for all Specs??*

Tier 3 Lvl 45
Presence of Mind
Scorch (Cast while moving, only slightly higher dmg than now *can change*, same)
Arcane Flows (45 sec cd, cast 2 non-instants while moving, lasts until cancelled/used)

Tier 4 Lvl 60
Mana Shield (Same + Knockback)
Blazing Speed (1 Min Cd, same but reactionary/on use instead of automatic *only useable when movement impaired*)
Ice Barrier (Same)

Tier 5 Lvl 75
Sickly Polymorph (Sheep regens health 10% slower)
Heavy Polymorph (Stuns for 3 sec when dmg'd)
Double Polymorph (2nd poly with 1/2 the duration)

Tier 6 Lvl 90
Blastwave (Same)
Dragon's Breath (Same)
Slow (Same)

So, basically 4/6 of our Tiers are CC/PvP Survival based. Tier 3 gives options for moving while casting/Pom and Tier 6 is the same Talents we have now, but we lose them until we reach Lvl 90.

Edit: I had a semi-long analysis/opinion of the talents.. but accidentally removed it. Not going to type it all out again. TLDR: Disappointed with current talents, hoping they're semi-placeholders and we just aren't finished. I know this is early development and things change. Not hoping for "OMGWTFDPSBUFFS" more fixes/bug fixes that have existed for a long time or problems with the way specs currently work.

Not a Wrath baby, love Cata.. just disappointed the way blizz has been rushing out content without big content they promised. Seem MoP might end up the same. But it's obviously too early to tell. I wasn't hoping for the buffs/new talents/improved talents other classes got.. but it seems silly we didn't get any of the same. Hoping there's more too it we don't know yet, or things are too early to be concrete.

I'm really excited about MoP in general and see what they're trying to do with talents/content etc. Just hope it works out. <3 Pandarens since Warcraft 3.

[risskel]

I came here to say this. Just because our talents look boring and un-interesting, possibly laughable for end talents, does not mean in anyway shape or form mean we won't be getting new fun sparkly shit. There's been a lot of confusion on my realm, people don't seem to be realising that you still chose a spec which will come with base abilities (previously talents, i.e. circle of healing for priests). Talents now are purely to add flavour to the class.

[DeveraPM]

I don't know why it keeps double posting my original post. *sigh* sorry. I usually lurk.

[Sw1tch]

Couldn't have said it better myself Devera. Overall, i'm mainly mad about the fact that none of our talents have even a hint of PvE in them:
T1: Only use i see is controlling adds with RoF or CoC, which never happens anyway
T2: It looks like Cauterize will be more helpful to a PvE Frost Mage than Cold Snap will be.
T3: This is the only decent tier. I actually commend them for this.
T4: Hahahah, MANA SHIELD?!
T5: ..........
T6: Blast Wave is about 5% of a fire mages AoE damage at best (in PURE AoE encounters). Dragons breath is never used in PvE. Lol @ Slow.

It's a joke honestly. Way to pick our 3 most worthless abilities outside of mana shield for lvl 90.

[Cimster]

I really dont hope this is mages final talent tree. Cus as it is, the talent tree doesnt make any sense from a pve perspective. Let's go through it! THIS IS FROM A PVE PERSPECTIVE!!!
15: Really nothing in the first row makes any sense for pve mages, if they dont plan on making frost raiding spec.
30: This row is ''ok'' I guess, Cauterize is nice to have.
45: As every talent we get, boring. Cast while moving, ok i guess, not too good though.
60: This row doenst give pve mages anything really good. Only defensive cds, what do we need those for ? we have ice block and mage ward.
75: Is this suppost to be a joke? 3 types of poly ????
90: And again. Is this a troll ?

So to sum up: Boring! Nothing new and exciting. gg

[Swizzle]

I just want to say this again: THERE IS MORE TO PVE THAN DOING ZILLIONS OF DAMAGE.

[DeveraPM]

Yeah, but we have to keep in mind we don't know how much our CC's will be viable in MoP. Granted CC was used a lot more in Heroics this expansion but hardly at all in PvE raids. Maybe that will change? Even if it does, once people outgear the content, CC won't be needed as much, like always in the past.

[Cimster]

I just want to say this again: THERE IS MORE TO PVE THAN DOING ZILLIONS OF DAMAGE.

Of course, but standing there, spamming defensive cd's like a friggin tank isnt that fun.

[Swizzle]

Yeah, but we have to keep in mind we don't know how much our CC's will be viable in MoP. Granted CC was used a lot more in Heroics this expansion but hardly at all in PvE raids. Maybe that will change? Even if it does, once people outgear the content, CC won't be needed as much, like always in the past.

That's when new content comes out. I'd rather have all that utility through talents and have strong DPS through our normal specs instead of relying on gimmicks from talents to bring us up to normal levels.

Also, to explain the awesome and new DK talents...11/18 are current abilities, so yeah.

---------- Post added 2011-10-22 at 12:22 AM ----------

Of course, but standing there, spamming defensive cd's like a friggin tank isnt that fun.

To some, but if a fight exists like Freya+3 in the next expansion...you're going to want those CDs in order to kill a fight AND do better DPS by, you know, surviving.

[DeveraPM]

I just want to say this again: THERE IS MORE TO PVE THAN DOING ZILLIONS OF DAMAGE.

Very true, but I haven't used Poly in a raid since Ulduar. I'm really hoping that changes, especially if 1 Tier of our talents focuses on the spell. I've kited adds on Nef (and used RoF) when it was current content, etc. The problem is we view these from our current expansion's perspective. We don't know what PvE will be like in Pom.

[Sw1tch]

I just want to say this again: THERE IS MORE TO PVE THAN DOING ZILLIONS OF DAMAGE.

As said above, when do you ever use those type of utility spells in a raid setting? And for some of us, no there is not haha. I want to put up crazy numbers being as flashy as possible.