The UFC Thread

[Vampiroth]

Cyborg would have to drop the roids and the weight to fight Rousey. So she'll lose her strength advantage that she has over most of the opponents, wont happen.

She hasn't tested positive for roids in a long time, and she weighed in at 175 after her last fight. Strength isn't the only advantage she has.

[Novx]

She hasn't tested positive for roids in a long time, and she weighed in at 175 after her last fight. Strength isn't the only advantage she has.

The point being that she took them in her career while most other fighters didn't. She did something to take advantage of other fighters and for that other fighters aren't willing to compromise for her. The same way that Vitor Belfort was probably the hardest hit by the TRT thing because he needed TRT due to steroid usage while other fighters like Frank Mir who fought clean for years and now need TRT because of low testosterone.

[nbm02ss]

Just watched that interview, that is a novelty fight. It's like Couture VS Tony, it wouldn't be for a belt or anything if for whatever reason it came to fruition and would have almost no appeal other than "new guard vs old guard". The Cyborg thing is that if they do a catch at say 140 and Cyborg wins....what happens? There is no 140lb or 145lb division. The Carano bout with be a 1time novelty match, the Cris bout would just throw the entire division into dismay. Also, Ronda actually like Carano, she hates Cris. Cris has been caught on PEDs, Gina hasn't, she isn't going to give Cyborg ANY negotiation power in that bout solely because of that (and she has made that very clear). I'd love to see the fight but Tito Ortiz ruined Cyborgs career, clean and simple.

Rhonda has fought at 145 a few times at the beginning of her career, so it's not that far of a stretch to make that fight, and it's really the only fight to make right now. Rhonda is so dominant that a fight with Cyborg is really one of, if not the only, intriguing fight left; not to mention the $$$ it would generate.

[Vampiroth]

Ronda walks around at 160 last I heard.

[Gumboy]

Walk around weight is not fighting weight.


I'm not sure why you are sticking up for a known cheater so much :P

[Vampiroth]

That post just prove you don't know very much about fighting. The amount of weight you cut makes a HUGE difference. It can be an advantage or disadvantage. Also, there is no such thing as "fighting weight" there is weigh in weight, yeah, but after weigh in fighters shoot up in weight. Fighters (not all) will even use IV's to rehydrate and get back up in weight. They don't get all the way back up to walk around weight, but they can add a good bit of weight and there is no telling what a fighter is weighing when they are in the cage. It is different for every person.

Also, I'm its not uncommon at all for athletes to cheat/use peds. You can go to your local GNC and buy sups there that will make you fail a ped test. The difference with Cyborg is that she got caught. That doesn't mean she is a worse fighter than Ronda. I'm also not saying that she will 100% beat Ronda, I'm saying that out of every female human being on the face of this earth that could match Ronda Rouseys weight, Cris Cyborg is the one that has the highest chance of beating her. It's the best fight. Sure, there are other girls out there that have the chance, but Cyborg is a dominate champion.

I don't think you even watch much MMA Gumboy. Here is a list I found quickly that hasn't been updated in awhile but these are fighters who failed ped test.

Josh Barnett: Former Champion
Tim Sylvia: Former Champion
Kimo Leopoldo: (fought for a championship)
Vitor Belfort: Former Champion and fighting for a championship again after being on TRT while it was temporarily allowed recently.
Stephan Bonnar: Fought in one of the most infamous fights in UFC history vs Forrest Griffin.
Diego Sanchez: Fought for Championship (noted it was for weed but that is a banned substance and is considered cheating)
Thiago Alves: Fought for championship (noted it was for diuretics(used to cut weight so you don't have to google it))
Melvin Guillard
Sean Sherk: Former Champion
Hermes Franca: WEC Champion (Now owned by UFC) and fought for UFC championship.
Kazuhiro Nakamura: (weed)
Anthony Torres
James Irvin
Chris Leben: WEC Champion
Karo Parisyan: WEC Champion
Chael Sonnen: Fought for Championship in 2 divisions
Vinicus Quieroz
Tyson Griffin
Thiago Silva
Chris Leben (again)
Nick Diaz: (weed)
Alistair Overeem: K1 Kickboxing Champion, Strikeforce Champion, Dream champion.
Francisco Rivera
Dave Herman
Stephan Bonnar: again
Thiago Silva (again) (weed)
Rousimar Palhares: Current WSOF WW Champion, kicked from UFC for holding subs too long
Joey Beltran
Thiago Tavares
Matt Riddle: (weed)
Lavar Johnson
Matt Riddle: (weed again, was released for weed)
Alex Cacares: (weed, same night as riddle, stayed in UFC)
Robbie Peralta (weed)
Brian Bowles: Former WEC Champion
Ben Rothwell
Robert Drysdale: Trains a lot of UFC fighters, decorated jiujitsu practitioner.
Antonio Silva: Fought for UFC Heavyweight title
Ali Bagautinov: Fought for UFC Flyweight Championship
Kevin Casey
Mike King
Brian Ortega
Dennis Siver
Riki Fukuda
Cung Le
Piotr Hallman

That list is up to date until 9/13/14. It doesn't include fighters who got popped in other orginzations.

Other fighters I can think of are Jon Fitch, Jon Jones (Cocaine), Hector Lombard, Anderson Silva, Nick Diaz again....

Anderson Silva cheated, yeah. But he's stil the GOAT. Jon Fitch was a great UFC fighter as well. He was dominate at WW.

[Novx]

Rhonda has fought at 145 a few times at the beginning of her career, so it's not that far of a stretch to make that fight, and it's really the only fight to make right now. Rhonda is so dominant that a fight with Cyborg is really one of, if not the only, intriguing fight left; not to mention the $$$ it would generate.

You ignored where I stated "The Cyborg thing is that if they do a catch at say 140 and Cyborg wins....what happens? There is no 140lb or 145lb division.". First and foremost the UFC is a business, they aren't going to intentionally destroy their own business for the sake of 1 fight. I would love to see those 2 go at it but the reality is that they fight in 2 weight divisions and the UFC doesn't hold one of those divisions. As I also stated earlier, going up 10lbs isn't just a small change, same as going down 10lbs isn't. Ronda would likely get rolled through at 145 against Cyborg because she is barely human, look at how ripped she is. It would take months, maybe even a year, for Ronda to gain a healthy 10lbs of muscle. It's one of the same reason that a lot of critics aren't sure Jones would do well at Heavyweight against Cain, he relies on speed...you lose speed with that 10lbs of muscle (or in the case of heavyweight, even more). Anderson Silva fought at 205 a few times, that doesn't mean hes the same fighter at 205 as he is at 185 (he isn't).

[nbm02ss]

You ignored where I stated "The Cyborg thing is that if they do a catch at say 140 and Cyborg wins....what happens? There is no 140lb or 145lb division.". First and foremost the UFC is a business, they aren't going to intentionally destroy their own business for the sake of 1 fight. I would love to see those 2 go at it but the reality is that they fight in 2 weight divisions and the UFC doesn't hold one of those divisions. As I also stated earlier, going up 10lbs isn't just a small change, same as going down 10lbs isn't. Ronda would likely get rolled through at 145 against Cyborg because she is barely human, look at how ripped she is. It would take months, maybe even a year, for Ronda to gain a healthy 10lbs of muscle. It's one of the same reason that a lot of critics aren't sure Jones would do well at Heavyweight against Cain, he relies on speed...you lose speed with that 10lbs of muscle (or in the case of heavyweight, even more). Anderson Silva fought at 205 a few times, that doesn't mean hes the same fighter at 205 as he is at 185 (he isn't).

And if Carano won? Rousey fighting a pioneer in WMMA is a little more different than fighting a boxer turned MMA fighter overnight, and Carano would enjoy a 10lbs weight advantage herself. Cyborg screwed herself getting popped for roids, no doubt about that, but before that you could certainly argue that Rousey was ducking her: Rhonda starts her career at 145, says she'll beat Cyborg in a year, gets to Strikeforce and drops to a lower weightclass and beats the weaker WMMA champion in Tate.

I honestly think that once Rhonda hangs up her MMA gloves, unless the UFC cultivates another WMMA star, they'll fold the divisions and let the remaining fighters go over to Invicta.

[Novx]

And if Carano won? Rousey fighting a pioneer in WMMA is a little more different than fighting a boxer turned MMA fighter overnight, and Carano would enjoy a 10lbs weight advantage herself. Cyborg screwed herself getting popped for roids, no doubt about that, but before that you could certainly argue that Rousey was ducking her: Rhonda starts her career at 145, says she'll beat Cyborg in a year, gets to Strikeforce and drops to a lower weightclass and beats the weaker WMMA champion in Tate.

I honestly think that once Rhonda hangs up her MMA gloves, unless the UFC cultivates another WMMA star, they'll fold the divisions and let the remaining fighters go over to Invicta.

Carano has the capability to go down to 135 though and that has been discussed by I believe Ariel Helwani in an interview with her a while back. The difference being that Carano would basically come back as a "1-off", she would fight once and then retire again. Cyborg has no plans of retiring (why would she, shes an animal and owns that weight class), Carano bout would mean that they suddenly need to add a weight division. Also, do you think that if Cyborg hadn't failed a drug test like 4 weeks after Rousey got that title they wouldn't have made a catchweight bout? If Rousey beat Tate (like she did) and Cyborg beat Yamanaka (like she did) they would have made a catchweight bout more than likely....but Cyborg got popped. Rousey already said that she has no plans to retire in the next 2 years so I don't think the UFC is in a bind at all. By the time she retires there will be a whole new top 10 for the womens division and that is assuming Rousey keeps her belt. I'm still not convinced Cat can't beat her, she just needs to fight rather than show emotion and charge in like an idiot.

[Gumboy]

That post just prove you don't know very much about fighting. The amount of weight you cut makes a HUGE difference. It can be an advantage or disadvantage. Also, there is no such thing as "fighting weight" there is weigh in weight, yeah, but after weigh in fighters shoot up in weight. Fighters (not all) will even use IV's to rehydrate and get back up in weight. They don't get all the way back up to walk around weight, but they can add a good bit of weight and there is no telling what a fighter is weighing when they are in the cage. It is different for every person.

Also, I'm its not uncommon at all for athletes to cheat/use peds. You can go to your local GNC and buy sups there that will make you fail a ped test. The difference with Cyborg is that she got caught. That doesn't mean she is a worse fighter than Ronda. I'm also not saying that she will 100% beat Ronda, I'm saying that out of every female human being on the face of this earth that could match Ronda Rouseys weight, Cris Cyborg is the one that has the highest chance of beating her. It's the best fight. Sure, there are other girls out there that have the chance, but Cyborg is a dominate champion.

I don't think you even watch much MMA Gumboy. Here is a list I found quickly that hasn't been updated in awhile but these are fighters who failed ped test.

Josh Barnett: Former Champion
Tim Sylvia: Former Champion
Kimo Leopoldo: (fought for a championship)
Vitor Belfort: Former Champion and fighting for a championship again after being on TRT while it was temporarily allowed recently.
Stephan Bonnar: Fought in one of the most infamous fights in UFC history vs Forrest Griffin.
Diego Sanchez: Fought for Championship (noted it was for weed but that is a banned substance and is considered cheating)
Thiago Alves: Fought for championship (noted it was for diuretics(used to cut weight so you don't have to google it))
Melvin Guillard
Sean Sherk: Former Champion
Hermes Franca: WEC Champion (Now owned by UFC) and fought for UFC championship.
Kazuhiro Nakamura: (weed)
Anthony Torres
James Irvin
Chris Leben: WEC Champion
Karo Parisyan: WEC Champion
Chael Sonnen: Fought for Championship in 2 divisions
Vinicus Quieroz
Tyson Griffin
Thiago Silva
Chris Leben (again)
Nick Diaz: (weed)
Alistair Overeem: K1 Kickboxing Champion, Strikeforce Champion, Dream champion.
Francisco Rivera
Dave Herman
Stephan Bonnar: again
Thiago Silva (again) (weed)
Rousimar Palhares: Current WSOF WW Champion, kicked from UFC for holding subs too long
Joey Beltran
Thiago Tavares
Matt Riddle: (weed)
Lavar Johnson
Matt Riddle: (weed again, was released for weed)
Alex Cacares: (weed, same night as riddle, stayed in UFC)
Robbie Peralta (weed)
Brian Bowles: Former WEC Champion
Ben Rothwell
Robert Drysdale: Trains a lot of UFC fighters, decorated jiujitsu practitioner.
Antonio Silva: Fought for UFC Heavyweight title
Ali Bagautinov: Fought for UFC Flyweight Championship
Kevin Casey
Mike King
Brian Ortega
Dennis Siver
Riki Fukuda
Cung Le
Piotr Hallman

That list is up to date until 9/13/14. It doesn't include fighters who got popped in other orginzations.

Other fighters I can think of are Jon Fitch, Jon Jones (Cocaine), Hector Lombard, Anderson Silva, Nick Diaz again....

Anderson Silva cheated, yeah. But he's stil the GOAT. Jon Fitch was a great UFC fighter as well. He was dominate at WW.

You are counting people that smoked pot as cheaters. Come on man you aren't even trying now :P

Even things like Cocaine isn't "Cheating" Like cyborg did.

[Novx]

It still brings a smile to my face to know that despite having failed a drug test after Silva/Sonnen #1 and despite being a convicted felon (money laundering) he still managed to get 2 more title shots. If the man knows one thing it is how to sell himself...and fraudulent plumbing repairs.

[Denkou]

Not sure if this was posted yet, also not UFC but still MMA-related. Anyway I thought it was pretty comical lol

[Vampiroth]

You are counting people that smoked pot as cheaters. Come on man you aren't even trying now :P

Even things like Cocaine isn't "Cheating" Like cyborg did.

It's against the rules, it is cheating. I don't know what you don't understand about that. We've discussed this in the thread before. As dumb as a rule could be, if you break it, thats that. You cheated. Jon Jones only loss was because of elbows that should be allowed in MMA. Same with knees to a downed opponent.

You see how many champions are on that list that took test boosters or anabolics? You think because she took steroids in 2011 she shouldn't get a fight today? She had to sit out an entire year for that. The absolute only reason I am against using PEDs in sports is because not all athletes do it. If all athletes were allowed to do it and made the concious decision that using PEDs was the right move for them, I'd be all for it. I don't care if its not "natural". Taking fish oil isn't natural but most fitness people do it. Taking protein like that isn't natural but people do it... Same with preworkout and all that other stuff. Some preworkouts you can buy at GNC will make you fail a PED test though.

You have no idea the number of athletes in the UFC that use PEDs. Its been stated by multiple fighters that they suspect it would be rare for you to find one person who hasn't done it. The same could be said for any other major sport. Shit, the NFL didn't start testing for HGH until 2014.

[Gumboy]

It's against the rules, it is cheating. I don't know what you don't understand about that. We've discussed this in the thread before. As dumb as a rule could be, if you break it, thats that. You cheated. Jon Jones only loss was because of elbows that should be allowed in MMA. Same with knees to a downed opponent.

You see how many champions are on that list that took test boosters or anabolics? You think because she took steroids in 2011 she shouldn't get a fight today? She had to sit out an entire year for that. The absolute only reason I am against using PEDs in sports is because not all athletes do it. If all athletes were allowed to do it and made the concious decision that using PEDs was the right move for them, I'd be all for it. I don't care if its not "natural". Taking fish oil isn't natural but most fitness people do it. Taking protein like that isn't natural but people do it... Same with preworkout and all that other stuff. Some preworkouts you can buy at GNC will make you fail a PED test though.

You have no idea the number of athletes in the UFC that use PEDs. Its been stated by multiple fighters that they suspect it would be rare for you to find one person who hasn't done it. The same could be said for any other major sport. Shit, the NFL didn't start testing for HGH until 2014.

It isn't "Cheating" it is breaking the rules. They were not cheating to get better at the sport.

I never said she shouldn't get a fight. I said the impetuous is on *HER* to make weight and test. Rousey should not have to gain or lose or do anything different, it is the cheater that should have to

[Vampiroth]

How is breaking the rules not cheating? What?

[Gumboy]

How is breaking the rules not cheating? What?

They broke the rules, but not to get an advantage in the sport? They weren't doing something to help them win a fight by smoking pot :P

[Vampiroth]

Okay, explain to me how marijuana doesn't improve performance. I know many ways it can and I know for a fact that Nick Diaz has been high as a kite during fights.

[Novx]

They broke the rules, but not to get an advantage in the sport? They weren't doing something to help them win a fight by smoking pot :P

No offense but that is one of the stupidest arguments I have ever read. Rules are rules, that is it. It's a banned substance, that is it, if they can't follow the rules for the couple months they are "in-competition" they don't deserve to be fighters in the top organization or any organization for that matter. The NBA and the NFL don't condone those actions regardless of if it's widely considered a harmless drug and nor should the UFC.

[Gumboy]

No offense but that is one of the stupidest arguments I have ever read. Rules are rules, that is it. It's a banned substance, that is it, if they can't follow the rules for the couple months they are "in-competition" they don't deserve to be fighters in the top organization or any organization for that matter. The NBA and the NFL don't condone those actions regardless of if it's widely considered a harmless drug and nor should the UFC.

I never said them breaking the rules didn't deserve a punishment. Did I? I said that they were not cheating to get an advantage, them being punished for breaking a rule is just fine.

- - - Updated - - -

Okay, explain to me how marijuana doesn't improve performance. I know many ways it can and I know for a fact that Nick Diaz has been high as a kite during fights.

Lol. Marijuana improves performances in a fight. Ok then.

"Sensory distortion
Panic
Anxiety
Poor coordination of movement
Lowered reaction time
Increased heartbeat (and risk of heart attack)"


Yeah, those def sound like something you want to have going on during a fight!

Are you even serious right now? you think marijuana is a fucking performance enhancer for fighting?

[Vampiroth]

Different strains of cannabis do different things. An Indica will relax you, it will not make you panic, or give you anxiety. If you smoke an indica before a fight you essentially get a similar effect as to taking a xanax. A sativa will give you energy. Also, like anything you take it has different effects for different people. Some people are allergic and could die from taking peanut butter.

Also, marijuana is used medically as a pain reliever. You can't go into a fight on oxy's.



If you don't know who Eddie Bravo is, since you probably don't, he is the owner of 10th Planet JiuJitsu. He beat Royler Gracie in Abu Dhabi when he was widely considered the best in the world. He rematched Royler last year because Royler felt it was a fluke, and Eddie completely dominated him no questions asked. He developed jiujitsu techniques that are widely used in the UFC by nearly every single fighter. He has had nearly every fighter come train at 10th planet gyms at one point or another. For a very long time he was the guy that coordinated the camera shots for when fights went to the ground in the UFC as well. He also owns his own jiujitsu promotion. And he's in a decent rock band.

http://www.fightsaga.com/news/item/2...ic-Performance

http://www.popsci.com/technology/art...ubstances-list

http://www.mensjournal.com/health-fi...arder-20141113