Combat looks very stiff

[Raeli]

Get off your high horse, I'm pretty sure everyone here who has even the slightest interest in this game has seen lot more than the official BW videos.

While that may be true, you aren't allowed to talk of those on this forum, and so you can only make your point using the official Bioware videos.

No need to be rude and insulting, it gets us nowhere.

[Atrea]

Even after looking at the videos posted in this thread - recent videos, even, not the 2009 ones - I still find myself kind of underwhelmed by this game.

I can definitely appreciate what the OP means by 'stiffness', and I think Viertel explains it very well:

Outside of WoW developers have put too much time into the actual animations of attacks/actions and have coded their engines so that another action may not occur until one is finished. So, what you end up getting is this stilted, stiff environment where the damage outgoing *NEVER* lines up with the actions you see. It makes it extraordinarily difficult to get a handle on combat and usually after a few days of playing I usually quit said game in disgust because I simply can't get into it.

It also looks a lot like an RTS - which is not in itself a bad thing, but I don't think I'd like WoW as much if it was a glorified Warcraft 3 either.

[Cakka]

Not sure if you have said the combat is stiff, but if you have AND you have indeed seen more than official BW videos, you surely would've seen how combat is NOT stiff nor clunky.

I haven't said anything about the combat, just wanted to point out that pretending that all people here have seen are the official videos is a bit stupid..

[TWBrien]

They gotta do something about that posture when running/fighting, standing that ramrod straight is just odd, liable to break your neck if you do a shoulder roll. I see what people are saying about a lack of reactions to inc spells/ranged attacks. As someone who hasn't played the beta, do you have to/can you block incoming attacks? Ala lightsaber blocking. Combat animations for the lightabers look damn good.

[Rufcat]

Yes, if you are wielding a lightsaber you will sometimes deflect blaster fire.

I don't get what the bug fuss is about these reactions people are looking for. When I was taking on 3-5 enemies at once, looking for a reaction to damage is the last thing I was looking for.

[Mosc]

Yes, if you are wielding a lightsaber you will sometimes deflect blaster fire.

I don't get what the bug fuss is about these reactions people are looking for. When I was taking on 3-5 enemies at once, looking for a reaction to damage is the last thing I was looking for.

Yea, I agree, it seems very nit-picky. This "issue" is likely a personal problem because I've never even thought about reactions or animations after watching newer videos (official or unofficial). I just thought the game looked great and very fun. Have you seen how cool combat looks with blaster fire flying everywhere and light sabers buzzing around? I think the smuggler video shows some of that and it looks awesome.

[Mothhive]

I've been playing their games for 10+ years and I have yet to see any of their animations fall short of the standards of the time the games are released in.

I've played each BW game except Jade Empire and nothing by way of sub-par animations ever caught my eye, ever.

I think bold statements like "they are pretty notorious for having bad animations" aren't really appropriate when it's your personal opinion. Mine differs and I've never heard any such complaints from any of my friends or WoW guildies, most of which have played at least both parts of DA and ME.

You're not exactly an ideal analytical machine, if you excuse my saying so.

So perhaps you'd use phrases like "I didn't like the animations in *insert game here*" rather than statements like "they're notorious for" that seem to hint you posses some kind of generally accepted data.

If he had stated as if it were a fact that Bioware have bad animations, you would have made valid points. However, being notorious for something doesn't require everyone to be in complete agreement, only that something unfavourable is generally known or widely accepted. If you don't believe me, watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATj3tIqSj5g

Now tell me honestly that when the Fem Shep cosplayer is talking, you don't instantly recognise the "Bioware style animation" she's excellently mimicing. People who didn't get what she was doing posted comments bashing her crap acting and robotic movements, only to be torn down by everyone else who recognised it for what it was and found it hilarious.

So yes, they are notorious for bad animations. If you don't agree, that's your personal opinion, but it doesn't change anything. If it makes you feel better, they're also famous for excellent games with amazing stories despite that, and while some people may not agree (just to Clarify, I love ME, ME2 and DA:O), their opinion doesn't change that fact either.

[jearle]

This is an MMO who gives a rats ass about animations as long as the combat is fluid?

The most popular MMO ever and the benchmark standard is WoW, which has terrible animations but extremely fluid combat.

[zealous]

only that something unfavourable is generally known or widely accepted.

That's exactly what I disagree with.

If there are some people that agree with the notion that Bioware produces crappy animations in their games, I am yet to be convinced or find any evidence that they are more than a very small minority.

I personally don't think that way and this discussion is the first time ever I see the issue even brought up.

It's just more honest to say "I think this and that" without trying to attach yourself to some kind of unproven group opinion. We both understand that that is an attempt to validate one's position beyond a mere "this is what I believe", it's a none too subtle hint at "It's what many people think therefore it must have some merit".

While in fact there is no proof or even semblance of proof that a lot of people think that.

Let's just drop the cheap rhetoric and each express what we think, without trying to imply we are part of a majority or a large group of like-minded people.

[Tore]

I haven't said anything about the combat, just wanted to point out that pretending that all people here have seen are the official videos is a bit stupid..

Well, I was trying to avoid talking about NDA breaking videos but allude to them to avoid infractions, but if you're gonna be blind about it:

Most long beta fraps, I'd argue 75% of them, are like 2-hour long starter planet captures. There are few enough high level players in the beta as it is, none of them are capping screens and risking their access. I'm saying all I can say; official videos or unofficial videos, you haven't seen the way it actually looks. The highest level beta fraps tend to be around level 30 and even those are few and far between. I'd like to give evidence of how it actually looks properly in-game, from behind your character and lots of abilities going off, but rules say I can't.

[Roose]

This thread is another shining example of the mismanaged marketing department deciding to keep the NDA active. It is really frustrating to even talk about this game because of it. Why would they want their beta testers to remain silent this close to launch? Their competitors more than likely have already seen beta themselves, so all they are denying now is interested fans. This would all be different if they did a better job themselves of promoting the game. It is like they left a lot of the promotion to the fans and gave us very little to work with.

[shadowkras]

Your probably watching the 2 year old videos that everyone sees then comments on. Please watch this video and tell me combat is "Stiff"
http://www.swtor.com/media/trailers/voidstar-warzone

It still does look stiff and unnatural.

But im actually going to wait to try the game instead of relying on videos, they are often innacurate in terms of gameplay.

[Mothhive]

While in fact there is no proof or even semblance of proof that a lot of people think that.

Pretty sure the video I posted shows how recognisable the awkward animations are. You kinda dodged my question about it as well, did you realise what she was doing with her strange movements?

[zealous]

Pretty sure the video I posted shows how recognisable the awkward animations are. You kinda dodged my question about it as well, did you realise what she was doing with her strange movements?

All I saw was her kind of twitching in place, reminiscent of the idle animations in dozens of games.

I was slightly reminded of ME2, but nothing jumped out at me screaming "OMG LAME ANIMATIONS OF ME2, THEY'RE EVERYWHERE!".

That's why I didn't comment on the video. I found nothing really worth commenting on.

I spent a LOT of time playing DA 1&2 and ME 1&2, two playthroughs for each of those games. And the animations never annoyed me or made me think "ugh, this is so lame and unnatural".

And that was after ~100-120 hours of staring at the characters of those games.

I can't really make it any clearer than that.

I respect your right to an opinion, I just don't agree with you here. At all.

[Trollsbane]

Pretty sure the video I posted shows how recognisable the awkward animations are. You kinda dodged my question about it as well, did you realise what she was doing with her strange movements?

I laughed at that video. But I have to ask, what games have better movement animations?

[zealous]

I laughed at that video. But I have to ask, what games have better movement animations?

Any kind of answer to this will be futile, because it's a 99% subjective category until we use some kind of algorithm to determine what animations are "good" and "natural".

Until then, it's plain hypocrisy. I can say that I consider the animations to be bad in one game or another, but if I say that this company makes bad animations I'm just being cheap and trying to pass off my opinion as fact.

Unless it's a game that's vastly outdated or is just very low-budget, or just so horrible visually that it fails or consistently receives bad reviews on its animations, this is all a moot point.

[Trollsbane]

Any kind of answer to this will be futile, because it's a 99% subjective category until we use some kind of algorithm to determine what animations are "good" and "natural".

Until then, it's plain hypocrisy. I can say that I consider the animations to be bad in one game or another, but if I say that this company makes bad animations I'm just being cheap and trying to pass off my opinion as fact.

Unless it's a game that's vastly outdated or is just very low-budget, or just so horrible visually that it fails or consistently receives bad reviews on its animations, this is all a moot point.

That was my entire point.

I can find something to pick a part in anything. That doesn't mean I should. There is no point.

[Klazmaunt]

I'll throw my two cents in.

I want to have the desire to grab this game...but from everything so far I just don't. I do agree that there is something "off" with combat and movement that I can't quite pin. I guess it is more obvious in this game for some reason than others (I agree that this is not the only game with the issues pointed out so far, however.)

I hope the game is successful and I'm glad that so many people have found a game they can enjoy! I just wanted to say that I agree with the OP, there is just something not right about it to me.

[zealous]

I'll throw my two cents in.

I want to have the desire to grab this game...but from everything so far I just don't. I do agree that there is something "off" with combat and movement that I can't quite pin. I guess it is more obvious in this game for some reason than others (I agree that this is not the only game with the issues pointed out so far, however.)

I hope the game is successful and I'm glad that so many people have found a game they can enjoy! I just wanted to say that I agree with the OP, there is just something not right about it to me.

To each his own.

I can't help but yawn when I look at GW2 footage for example. I admit it's obviously a quality game with some tasty spell VFX (the thing I like the most about it so far) but it just doesn't do it for me, I actually kind of feel that the animations there don't suit me and I'm not a big fan of twitch gameplay.

That is all my subjective opinion however, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" and all that.

[Geekzilla]

I don't get what the bug fuss is about these reactions people are looking for. When I was taking on 3-5 enemies at once, looking for a reaction to damage is the last thing I was looking for.

That mirrors my opinion, and brings up an important distinction. If we were to watch videos of someone playing WoW, would we be noticing the same issues? The thing is the difference between playing a game and watching something. When you're watching, you're more likely to notice little details that aren't smooth or don't quite jive with reality. When you're playing, your attention is being taken up by other things.

Personally, I agree with people that say the videos, even the new ones, look a bit stiff. On the other hand, I don't think I'll notice it much when playing. And yes, I plan on trying SW:TOR, though I don't plan on cancelling WoW for it.

I was mostly unmoved by most of what I've seen, but hearing the theme music sent a charge up my spine. Yeah, I was a teen, already into SF when the first movie came out, so it has a special draw to me.