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  1. #1
    Bloodsail Admiral Cuchulainn's Avatar
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    GW2 Game Sales Paying Off?

    I was thinking about the no subscription thing lately, and thought, "hmmm, can the game sales alone pay for all the work ANet has put in GW2, as well as sustain their bank accounts while they develop new content?" With micro-transactions aside for now, I'd like to take some time and draw up some REALLY rough math.

    Let's say GW2 sells 2 million copies within the first 3 months of release at $60.00 USD, they just made $120,000,000.00 USD. 3 million: $180,000,000.00 USD. 4 million: $240,000,000.00 USD. And 5 million: a whopping $300,000,000.00 USD.

    Is that really enough to pay for the years they've spent on the game, as well as pay a large staff the big bucks? I kind of worry about it. Honestly, I would really have to commemorate the ANet team for being so laid back. Taking a pay cut for making a AAA grade MMO in comparison to a company like SoE or Blizzard Entertainment; who pay their employees HUGE bucks because of subscription based MMOs is amazing. The amount of dedication and passion for making video games really shows with these guys.

    However, then I got to thinking, "well, these guys don't work 12 hours a day, 8 days a week like other game company employees do. At most they work 10 hours and have weekends off." So does this make it possible that perhaps ANet employees care more about freedom to sit an relax every so often, rather than slave away like a raving Chris Metzen? I know if I had to work VERY LONG hours, then I would be demanding a large pay. It just doesn't seem like the same thing with ANet employees. They always seem more kicked back, and energetic. They kind of remind me of Gork devs from MIT; very bachelor-like.

    I certainly hope these guys do get payed for what they're doing, and in support of them, I'll be buying character slots and a couple cosmetics just ot make sure these guys get payed (assuming that's where the money goes, lol). Father Gregori must tend to his flock, but sometimes he needs to be tended to also....PAINTERLY!
    Last edited by Cuchulainn; 2011-10-31 at 02:45 PM.

  2. #2
    This is kind of off topic, but I wonder how Anet is actually doing with their sales on Guild wars 2. Hopefully they get a lot of money in return because this game looks very entertaining and polished compared, in my opinion, to all the other MMO's I've seen. Yes, including Star Wars.

  3. #3
    games make more than enough. Server upkeep costs are no longer as high as they were over 5 eyars ago.
    Reason you apy for wow is because you are used to it not because its required for content development or servers upkeep

    If wow sub fee is to be justified, expansion packs sohuld be free

  4. #4
    Does it count the millions who will quit wow for gw2?(relax, I'm trolling)

    Thanks for letting me know. This is your warning, don't do this crap again, this is how flame wars start. - Edge
    Last edited by Edge-; 2011-10-31 at 07:05 PM.

  5. #5
    First off, your assumptions are wrong unless they sell the game strictly through digital download from their systems. They actually only get about 25% to 33% of the retail price if they go through standard brick and mortar stores (they sell to a distributor at a price between $15 to $20 per unit, the distributor then sells to a retailer between $25 to $30 per unit, and the retailer sells to the public at $55 to $60 per unit). So real numbers would more likely look like $30M to $40M for 2 Million copies sold and $60M to $80M for 4 Million copies sold. To reach that $300M mark, they'd likely have to sell 20 Million copies of the game (not really likely).

  6. #6
    The Patient counterhero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tahapenes View Post
    First off, your assumptions are wrong unless they sell the game strictly through digital download from their systems. They actually only get about 25% to 33% of the retail price if they go through standard brick and mortar stores (they sell to a distributor at a price between $15 to $20 per unit, the distributor then sells to a retailer between $25 to $30 per unit, and the retailer sells to the public at $55 to $60 per unit). So real numbers would more likely look like $30M to $40M for 2 Million copies sold and $60M to $80M for 4 Million copies sold. To reach that $300M mark, they'd likely have to sell 20 Million copies of the game (not really likely).
    Wow you have this all wrong. I work for best buy. And we get games from the distributor for 5-10 dollars less than the sell price. Depending on the game. High selling games like halo and mw2 we get for 55 dollars and sell at 60.

  7. #7
    Posted many many times before, but worth watching:


  8. #8
    It's more than enough. Box sales cover the production of MMO and give enough bonus. Even WAR brought enough money and they still have some subscriptions which are just pure profit.

    "That's $200 million for the total cost of upkeep since the game's November, 2004 release (presumably not including the initial cost to develop the game). This includes payroll for the entire staff, hardware support, and -- apparently the biggest infrastructure cost -- customer service."

    this is a quote from Blizz around 2008 (before WOTLK http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/41...aintain/p1/c2/ ). Quick calculation: 10 mln subscribers * 15$ * 12 months = 1800000000$ = 1.8 bln $ (american billion). So in one year they earn 900% of their four year upkeep cost. We can translate it to: yearly upkeep is around 3% of the subscription cash. Of course this is a simplification, it assumes that they always have around 10 mln subscribers, that all subscribers pay the same amount of money etc. But still, the fact is that players are gullible to think that their money is going for servers and content.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by athrl View Post
    It's more than enough. Box sales cover the production of MMO and give enough bonus. Even WAR brought enough money and they still have some subscriptions which are just pure profit.

    "That's $200 million for the total cost of upkeep since the game's November, 2004 release (presumably not including the initial cost to develop the game). This includes payroll for the entire staff, hardware support, and -- apparently the biggest infrastructure cost -- customer service."

    this is a quote from Blizz around 2008 (before WOTLK http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/41...aintain/p1/c2/ ). Quick calculation: 10 mln subscribers * 15$ * 12 months = 1800000000$ = 1.8 bln $ (american billion). So in one year they earn 900% of their four year upkeep cost. We can translate it to: yearly upkeep is around 3% of the subscription cash. Of course this is a simplification, it assumes that they always have around 10 mln subscribers, that all subscribers pay the same amount of money etc. But still, the fact is that players are gullible to think that their money is going for servers and content.
    Exactly. If WoW didn't have subscriptions from the start, it wouldn't even last a couple of years. Some people need to think first before going on and saying Blizzard is greedy for subscription fees. I can guarantee that the next Blizzard MMO coming out in a few years will not have a subscription fee, for the exact same reason Guild wars 2 doesn't, because server cost aren't so much as they used to be, so therefor there would be no need for a subscription fee unless it's 100% for new content every month or so.
    "Yes, I'm one of those GW2 fan boys who quit WoW and never even played GW1."[/IMG]

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by athrl View Post
    It's more than enough. Box sales cover the production of MMO and give enough bonus. Even WAR brought enough money and they still have some subscriptions which are just pure profit.

    "That's $200 million for the total cost of upkeep since the game's November, 2004 release (presumably not including the initial cost to develop the game). This includes payroll for the entire staff, hardware support, and -- apparently the biggest infrastructure cost -- customer service."

    this is a quote from Blizz around 2008 (before WOTLK http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/41...aintain/p1/c2/ ). Quick calculation: 10 mln subscribers * 15$ * 12 months = 1800000000$ = 1.8 bln $ (american billion). So in one year they earn 900% of their four year upkeep cost. We can translate it to: yearly upkeep is around 3% of the subscription cash. Of course this is a simplification, it assumes that they always have around 10 mln subscribers, that all subscribers pay the same amount of money etc. But still, the fact is that players are gullible to think that their money is going for servers and content.
    This is why I have a problem with the direction of this game. Hell, Blizzard is still making sales on D2 and WCII and III. Your telling me, a 100 million dollar budget a month, from the US alone, isn't enough to release content every 3 months? It's absolutely applauding.

    I know they are developing other games, along with server up keep, and that takes cash. Yet, how can anyone justify 1.2 billion a year in single revenue, then claim it's not enough.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiserneko View Post
    Alright, you've convinced me. You've defeated me with your superior intellect and articulate arguments. All hail Jokerfiend.

  11. #11
    Bloodsail Admiral Cuchulainn's Avatar
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    Damn it, I made a really long post, then double posted. Deleted my first post, then both were gone. Oh well. I think that this thread is going smooth without my input anyway.

  12. #12
    Think of it like this:

    If Sub fees weren't enough, how come ArenaNet was so sucessfull with Gw1 (without either sub fees or some kind of cosmetic store) that they make Gw2, a very budgetintense project with the same payment model? Gw2 looks fresh, new, amazing graphics and very polished.
    It works, and it will work again. And if it does indeed work so well people choose to play Gw2 over WoW, both WoW and Titan will be sub-free. So, go play Gw2 instead and make Blizzard give us some slack.

    Blizz IS taking our money. But since I like them, I don't actually care. I get Diablo 3 for free! And 13euro / month is nothing compared to other entertainments. You get endless of hours of gametime compared to singleplayer games or other stuff.

    With 25 Euro I can't even go see a 3D cinema with my girlfriend. Need atleast 30 euro + 5-7 more for popcorn and stuff.

    For 25 euro / month I could make her play WoW with me and we'd have hours and hours of fun!
    Last edited by TordFish; 2011-10-31 at 05:39 PM.

  13. #13
    They will probably do the same they have done with the original Guild Wars.

    Item Shop with no game-breaking advantages, but many goodies to be had, like extra bank space and skill packs for PVP-only.

  14. #14
    Is it enough money?

    Yes, more then enough. GW2, if it bangs on all cylinders, should sell 4 million units the first year. The market is ready for MMOs as a game everyone plays.

  15. #15
    Bloodsail Admiral Cuchulainn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naix View Post
    Is it enough money?

    Yes, more then enough. GW2, if it bangs on all cylinders, should sell 4 million units the first year. The market is ready for MMOs as a game everyone plays.
    This is where I draw my assumption that GW2 will sell a lot of copies within the first 3-6 months: Most games are played online nowadays. MMOs are becoming increasingly popular and the game companies are noticing this ever since WotLK launched. That's why so many WoW clones were born, some with good ideas but a failing dev team and producers that set thin dead lines.

    The guys at BioWare and ANet got it good though, like...Blizzard good. They got time, and money. Everyone can bash on NC Soft all they want, but who's giving ANet all the time in the world to make GW2? It's gonna be big, it's gonna have a huge following like TOR will, so I can expect for it to sell big.

    You're absolutely right: the market is ready for MMOs to be as big of a genre as FPSes are.

  16. #16
    High Overlord Nino's Avatar
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    the video makes plenty of sense especially because the narrator has an English accent ..... but no i have suspected for a while now that subs are not necessary for the reasons given in blizzs case im guessing the sub money goes into developing other non wow related projects that don't generate as much money as wow

  17. #17
    I agree, Blizz probably doesn't need a sub for WoW anymore, but honestly, if WoW suddenly went F2P people would start freaking out. It would be a sign to most, that WoW is failing, and they are trying to regain ground. When that might not be the situation at all. So for them, it is simply not rocking the boat. But I could be wrong, and we will see how it plays out when they release a different MMO, and see what model they choose to have for it.

    I am definitely looking forward to GW2, and am excite to be able to play an MMO that I don't have to pay a sub fee. But I bet Blizz isn't completely worried about them either. Most people will probably get GW2, play it, but still keep their WoW sub. Because they like the people, and can still log in and do stuff whenever they feel like it. It would be like getting to enjoy 2 mmos for the price of one. SWTOR it the main MMO that is looking to actually steal WoW subs, because most people aren't willing to pay for 2 subs at the same time.
    Last edited by creepygnome; 2011-10-31 at 06:22 PM.

  18. #18
    because it's not a real MMO with persistent world. All the game is istanced. I am not trolling I am waiting for GW2 too.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Shae View Post
    because it's not a real MMO with persistent world. All the game is istanced. I am not trolling I am waiting for GW2 too.
    If you have to put that in, there is a pretty good chance that you are one.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Shae View Post
    because it's not a real MMO with persistent world. All the game is istanced. I am not trolling I am waiting for GW2 too.
    Ehm? Gw2 is just as much a realm MMO as any other MMO out there.

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