DPS'ers pulling in raids...

[Deleted]

Short information: I'm the guild master in this guild, we're a 10 man raiding guild with a core of 12 raiders, currently at 6/7 HC progressing on Ragnaros HC.

Right so lately I've been having some discussions with mainly two of our DPS'ers. They tend to pull the trash while we're clearing.
Not a big deal you might think, but I for one get completely ticked off at this.

Our tanks aren't exactly slow to pull, and it's not like we have to wait for healers to get mana on every trash pack or anything. However, I've asked the two DPS'ers in question to stop pulling multiple times, and for some (imo) stupid reason they seem to not be able stop.

Anyway to get to the core of the problem, here the other day we actually managed to wipe on the trash before Baleroc, one of the DPS'ers pulls the trash on the left side, and tanks pull the one on the right side. After having spent the past month "bitching, whining and moaning about it" as they put it, I lost my temper and went absolutely enrage at him on ventrilo. After a heated discussion lasting around 1 min, the DPS logs off vent.
At this point the two tanks starts to yell at me for again, "bitching, whining and moaning" about our DPS'ers pulling, saying it's not a big deal etc.

Soooo, this might seem like a random post but it's actually annoying me quite a lot. So the main question here is:
Am I in fact a bitching, whining and moaning m*****f*****?

Niablar

[Treeskee]

all fun and games till they start wiping you... personally i wouldnt have told them more than twice i'd have just replaced

[Spott]

ya shurr why not? lol, but instead of QQing vent, ahahaha, just kick them ad bring in the other 2 ppl? i mean its a 10 man, and oyu have 12 ppl, if you remove one from group..and replace it...then you still have 10 and a chance of a person who listens lol.....OR get used to it buster. =O

[Kawwah]

Ya, you are the guild master. You will have to be tough sometimes. Give them a warning or an ultimatum, and follow it. Look for new people for your guild too

[smartAXE]

the fact that they didn't stop shows no respect towards you leading every week(unless you're just the GM) on the other hand its "just trash" :S

[oplawlz]

Make it a guild policy, then start stripping loot priority from whoever does it. If you use a loot system it's easy, but even if you don't tell them they get -60 to their next token roll. Honestly the tanks opinion does not matter, the raid leader makes the rules.

[NithonKT]

You are not whining. And actually can't believe your tanks weren't pissed off either.

[Deleted]

Main issue is that the guy who does it the most is the one getting the legendary, so yeah taking him out screws us over as well -_- (Yeah we're still not finished with the first legendary.... FU RNG )

[Omertocracy]

^ This. Exactly this.

[Eldair]

You are not whining. And actually can't believe your tanks weren't pissed off either.

This, I would've replaced them.

[Deleted]

While I do think you're not in the wrong for being ticked off, I still would never start raging and shouting on TS/vent about stuff like that, it simply causes drama to the whole raid group like in this case. I would first take it up to them privately, if they don't believe you, give them a warning, if they do it a third time I would give an instant gkick.

Anyhow, people that aren't willing to follow the guild rules don't belong in that guild, likewise, people that hold no respect for the leadership of a guild probably don't belong there either. You are completely right in being ticked off, I just would've handled the situation completely differently. The only good that comes out of raging on vent is that the whole raid group gets involved and picks a side>drama starts. Either way it's your guild, your rules, and you've lead them through 6/7 heroic already so it's not like you're a complete retard of a GM and I doubt you would've gotten that far if your rules were completely ridiculous/unfair either.

Main issue is that the guy who does it the most is the one getting the legendary, so yeah taking him out screws us over as well -_- (Yeah we're still not finished with the first legendary.... FU RNG )

Even if that's the case there comes a time when you simply have to put the foot down and make it clear that what the leadership says, goes. If you don't want to risk losing the legendary out of the guild simply be a bit more diplomatic with him, try to explain to him why you consider ninja-pulling to be bad and make him realize that it's not all about him having his fun but the rest of the raid as well. If he still doesn't see your point then you're sadly going to cut him loose even if it means losing out on the work put in on the legendary.

[Deleted]

Well, remove the guy getting the legendary next week, stating that he won't get back in until he decides to do as the RL says. It can be a horrible job being RL even when people try to do as instructed, so no reason compounding it with rude beahiour. And if he's really only focused on himself, as it seems, he won't be happy that he'll have to wait another week for the staff. That will either make him shape up, or leave. Neither will be bad for you, since one that decides to leave at the first sign of opposition isn't worth keeping anyway.

[Deleted]

me as a tank and raid leader, i had 1 dps doing this -> first time warning, second time reset him to last position in the loot list and replaced him for the raid. never happened again.

if its the guy who'd get the legendary, replacing him hurts him more than it hurts your raid - after all he's about to get an orange, and you dont actually depend on having it.

[quantaron]

Ragnaros is killable without a legendary. It is not killable without raiders who follow instructions.

[Slammin Shaman]

Tell them to cut it out, if they don't then don't allow them to roll on loot for HC Rag kill. If they keep on doing it kick them out for the rest of week, they're dps and can be replaced. If they still do it, just g-kick. When I lead raids, pug or in guild, if anyone did that crap I would give them two warnings. The first was an actual warning, second was I passed them on loot if they wanted something for one boss in the rest of the run. They usually left by this point, and I have rarely had to kick anyone. But when I did kick it was funny when I got in trade chat because they would try and flame me, and fail miserably at it.

If you think G-kick is too harsh, just sit them from raids for a week or two. If they're causing problems then they don't need to be in there. Yell at your tanks too, I hate it when I play my tank and dps pull.

[Deleted]

ya shurr why not? lol, but instead of QQing vent, ahahaha, just kick them ad bring in the other 2 ppl? i mean its a 10 man, and oyu have 12 ppl, if you remove one from group..and replace it...then you still have 10 and a chance of a person who listens lol.....OR get used to it buster. =O

That's usually not much of an option for a 10-man guild considering optimal raid compositions and the possibility of absence.

Soooo, this might seem like a random post but it's actually annoying me quite a lot. So the main question here is:
Am I in fact a bitching, whining and moaning m*****f*****?

I think it's silly that they can't seem to comprehend what you've told them and having to repeat yourself is annoying. However, I think shouting isn't really the best way of dealing with such a situation. Just remember that this is a video game, don't let something as little as wiping once because of a dummy make you lose your temper.

[god of lock and pala]

ya shurr why not? lol, but instead of QQing vent, ahahaha, just kick them ad bring in the other 2 ppl? i mean its a 10 man, and oyu have 12 ppl, if you remove one from group..and replace it...then you still have 10 and a chance of a person who listens lol.....OR get used to it buster. =O

not a viable solution, since 10man is so tuned about the right setup. but yeah as GM or ML or RL or what ever authority you have, you can say that next boss drops that X person will be locked out of the rolls/distribution or what ever. even though it might be harsh to DE the loot that is needed, but its more to set an example, and i guess you want a well playing grp for the future and not so much in this very instance(thinking of next patch)

[Deleted]

That's usually not much of an option for a 10-man guild considering optimal raid compositions and the possibility of absence.




I think it's silly that they can't seem to comprehend what you've told them and having to repeat yourself is annoying. However, I think shouting isn't really the best way of dealing with such a situation. Just remember that this is a video game, don't let something as little as wiping once because of a dummy make you lose your temper.

I've been leading this guild since the start of cataclysm, most of the people in the guild are people I've raided with since... Ulduar - we currently only have 2 guys that haven't been there since back then (both being the tanks). With a trial or someone I didn't know this well, I would definately have done a lot more to threaten them. (Or how ever you wish to put it, punish / what ever)

Also, I'd like to point out that during that entire time I've only shouted on ventrilo twice. One time being people failing on Shannox of all things (we wiped for 2 hours, yes 2 hours wiping on Shannox in a 6/7 HC guild because people couldn't pull their s**t together also ticked me off for some 'weird' reason)... The other being what I posted up above.

It takes a lot to get my temper flaring, but as everyone else I do have a limit, and they seem to be able to stretch it quite badly of late -_-

- About the kicking and replacing etc.
While we're 12 raiders, 1 of them can't come to every raid there is, and we quite often clear everything on wednesday and then spend 2 days on Ragnaros, and just to point out, I do replace people if they can't pull their weight on Ragnaros, but sadly it's quite often we end up only being 10 online because people have IRL stuff coming up (the love of a semi-casual guild eh?) so yeah....

Thanks for all the responses so far

Niablar

[smashzu]

Here's the question - how are you going to kill h rag in you wipe on that trash pull? We pull the whole room for lolz every week with no issues.

[Alvito]

Ppl fucking around causes wipes after being asked and told multiple times to stop, then you bench them. If they keep doing it after they come back then you replace them. You cant let toxic attitudes stay in the raid long if at all or it turns into a much larger issue. If you are 6/7 heroic then you should have no problem finding ppl that would love to come in that can still do a great job and help the group.