[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[Graeham]

The Diadem is, if nothing else, fairly efficient for getting elemental materia and amber encased vilekin to trade in for crystal sand. I'm a little over halfway done with that step now. I can't wait until the next batch of MSQ's next week. Exciting stuff!

[Faroth]

The Diadem is, if nothing else, fairly efficient for getting elemental materia and amber encased vilekin to trade in for crystal sand. I'm a little over halfway done with that step now. I can't wait until the next batch of MSQ's next week. Exciting stuff!

WHOA WHOA WHOA......whoa....whooooooaaaaaaaa.

Is 3.6 confirmed for next week?

[Graeham]

WHOA WHOA WHOA......whoa....whooooooaaaaaaaa.

Is 3.6 confirmed for next week?

Yep, 21st March!

[Katchii]

In all of my raiding time I don't ever recall having to wear old sets for new tiers (except for people abusing bugs w/ HFC tier into EN, which was hotfixed) so I'm not exactly sure how dated/relevant this example is.

I think the question is not WHICH set bonus is better, but the fact that having a set bonus is better than not having a set bonus. Having set bonuses can sometimes severely hamper your gearing decisions or choices because if it's a choice between a new slightly higher item vs keeping your set bonus, the bonus is likely to win most of the time.

This is all assuming that the difference in output between the set piece and the non-set piece was muddy, in which case I would guess the set piece would win. If the non-set piece was clearly better it's a non-issue, I just think many people don't do enough math and simming or whatnot to figure out just how clearly one piece out performs another. I'm one of the people that doesn't do it.

If it could be baked into materia that would be pretty awesome, similar to how SW:ToR did it with mods you could pull out of the tier gear.

I don't really care either way, I'll play regardless and adjust my gear choices accordingly, I just prefer no set bonus as it leaves your gearing choices more wide open and clearer to the average user.

[Anzaman]

Is 3.6 confirmed for next week?

Yep, 21st March!

Just got back home, what did I miss?

[Faroth]

Yep, 21st March!

Gimme the sauce, you maniac! Link! Liiiiiiiink! (Hey! Listen!) No, not that Link, you annoying fairy! (*stands in AoE while healing*) I'm noticing a fairy trend with being annoying!

What am I even talking about now?!?!

[Graeham]

Just got back home, what did I miss?

Gimme the sauce, you maniac! Link!

Take it with a pinch of salt since I can't find a source other than word of mouth...but supposedly it's the case.

If someone could find a source, though, then that'd be awesome!

[Granyala]

What am I even talking about now?!?!

Annoying fairies doing whatever hell they please, obviously.

[Kazgrel]

There are some really sadistic people in this world.

[threads]

Yep, 21st March!

where'd you hear this?

[Graeham]

where'd you hear this?

Idyllshire. Though now I have my doubts since apparently it could be 28th instead. >.>

Which, at least, is still not too far away at least.

[Faroth]

I think if it was next week, we'd have an official word already. i've been expecting the 28th.

Got my last 270 pieces of gear last night. Nothing left to do but Zhloe's crafting each week and start clearing some inventory and stocking up gil.

Though I'll probably get an alt into Heavensward, if not through it, before Stormblood releases just to poke around for fun.

[Anzaman]

Impatiently waiting for Rem and Sice hairstyles..

..sees update in FFXIV database..

..hairstyle(1), hairstyle(2).

*sobs in corner*

[dope_danny]

Impatiently waiting for Rem and Sice hairstyles..

..sees update in FFXIV database..

..hairstyle(1), hairstyle(2).

*sobs in corner*

bugger that whens the 2B hair and outfit coming?

[Kazgrel]

From what I recall, they generally post preliminary patch notes the Friday before a patch goes live, so it's possible we may see an announcement on that 2 days from now.

Tank gear now at 270, so it's just healer (WHM) and MNK set left for me in terms of sets I care about (rest will make due with Diadem non-shit-rolled gear and/or DS drops). I do wonder if they'll nerf the cost of the 260 shire weapons (like they did with the 230 lore weapons towards the end of 3.3) in terms of amount of Alex gears required and/or add the option to buy the gobdip to bump them to 270 through the 24 man token turn in. Kinda hoping they do at some point before SB so I can have some decent weapons on everything for leveling up.

[Wrecktangle]

Exactly my point: FF-XIVs 270 set DOESN'T suck.
Sure Savage gets better loot but the delta is small.

Set bonuses would greatly increase that difference and that is not sth. I want.
The ridiculous differences in player power made me lose interest in WoWs gear completely, because no matter how much time and effort I put in, unless I raid, my character will be crap. And by crap I mean doing less than half of what a mythic raider can do.

I would love to see more interesting materia than +12 secondary stat though. I'd even go as far as taking a peek into AIONs stigma system, where materia (limited) may provide abilities or significantly alter abilites.

The delta between 270 and 280 isn't as small as you think it is IMO. It definitely adds up, to quite a bit.

While its 100% true the OP mentioned set bonuses for STRICTLY savage, you and I agree that would likely be bad form. If set bonuses all around were created I'd be ok with that as long as they were interesting and balanced.

Question though - if you didn't raid, but did low M+ (3-6) and had an average ilvl of say 870. If the only content you did was WQ's and dungeons you'd be one shotting those monsters and you'd be doing very meaningful and competitive output in the content you're participating in, so in essence your gear wouldn't suck. It would be phenomenal actually. I have a hard time associating with people who want top tier output for content that a quarter of that power would make it trivial. Do you want to make trivial even more trivial? That's how you're coming across to me. Why does it matter to you that say a savage raider has access to gear that is twice as powerful if the content you participate in is already trivial with gear that's 1/4th as powerful?

I'm not familiar with the stigma, but what you're describing I could totally get on board with.

I think the question is not WHICH set bonus is better, but the fact that having a set bonus is better than not having a set bonus. Having set bonuses can sometimes severely hamper your gearing decisions or choices because if it's a choice between a new slightly higher item vs keeping your set bonus, the bonus is likely to win most of the time.

This is all assuming that the difference in output between the set piece and the non-set piece was muddy, in which case I would guess the set piece would win. If the non-set piece was clearly better it's a non-issue, I just think many people don't do enough math and simming or whatnot to figure out just how clearly one piece out performs another. I'm one of the people that doesn't do it.

If it could be baked into materia that would be pretty awesome, similar to how SW:ToR did it with mods you could pull out of the tier gear.

I don't really care either way, I'll play regardless and adjust my gear choices accordingly, I just prefer no set bonus as it leaves your gearing choices more wide open and clearer to the average user.

Gearing choices? In FF14? You wear the highest ilvl 99.97% of the time. You farm trivial shit ad nauseam to get the relic weapon because you get to customize the secondaries on it. There's no gearing decision to be made, that's kind of my point. I wish there was SOME decision making from an itemization standpoint.

[Eleccybubb]

http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...febc8e896f0ec3

Reminder to anyone on PS3 that it's getting closer now. 90 day subs are gonna be cancelled.

http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...2ddd9615e3f659

For anyone wanting to get the free upgrade to the PS4 version.

[Faroth]

Question though - if you didn't raid, but did low M+ (3-6) and had an average ilvl of say 870. If the only content you did was WQ's and dungeons you'd be one shotting those monsters and you'd be doing very meaningful and competitive output in the content you're participating in, so in essence your gear wouldn't suck. It would be phenomenal actually. I have a hard time associating with people who want top tier output for content that a quarter of that power would make it trivial. Do you want to make trivial even more trivial? That's how you're coming across to me. Why does it matter to you that say a savage raider has access to gear that is twice as powerful if the content you participate in is already trivial with gear that's 1/4th as powerful?

I'm not familiar with the stigma, but what you're describing I could totally get on board with.

Having a massive disparity between top raiding and one step below also sends the game wildly hurdling towards massive power creep. One thing I've rather enjoyed about XIV is seeing the slow and reasonable climb on HP and damage/stats.

4 years and we're just now starting to reach for +100 stats on gear.
10 years and WoW is at +1,500 stats on gear.

I really prefer a slow incline over the drastic spikes every few months.

You don't want savage raiders 1-shotting every field mob in Stormblood while the lowly plebs need 5 minutes to kill a single enemy as a DPS. So what happens? First intro quests give near Savage level gear and blam, everyone skyrockets to new heights. Gear just bloats endlessly and without much need for it. SE has the right design for this being long term progression, WoW focuses on short term 'RAIDERS NEED TO FEEL SUPER POWERFUL EVERY RAID!" and jump ilvls to insane degrees. Probably a very different Japan vs Western development mentality. I prefer Square's (or I'd still be playing WoW, I suppose).






Unrelated, I do love Yoshida's candidness, though.

>complaints about 280 weapons
You guys need to calm down.

>complaints about content too easy
We made it hard and you guys complained. We make it easier and you guys complain. I don't trust anybody anymore. *snicker*

[Kazgrel]

The whole mountain of salt over the 280 weapons could've been avoided simply by having them be 275. "But then no one would care to get them" Well, you could possibly end up with a very nice weapon for an alt job. I haven't farmed A12S (or even touched any of Savage Creator, for that matter), and I'm sure as hell not going to farm up 7 more anima weapons, so they would still be nice items to have a chance at. Thankfully, there's no new raid tier coming between now and SB, so the impact of those 280 weapons is largely minimalized.

Gear choice in this game is largely limited. There's no denying that. BLM is an outlier of an example where (depending on whether you progress in Savage or not) lower ilvl pieces outshine higher ilvl ones; the caster pants from DS come to mind. Tanks get shafted because they have a chance of gear having a secondary stat that's almost worthless (parry). Everyone can get shafted if all their gear is flooded with accuracy. SCH and AST aren't near as hungry for piety on gear as WHM.

That being said, things like set bonuses or simply having savage gear as a higher ilvl wouldn't be a good way to go. The raids grant those who clear them highest ilvl gear for several months before non-raiders can ever get their hands on such gear, and even then, they won't be able to fully optimize their setups, since there will be pieces from raids with better secondary stat allocations. Of course, the impact of that (having absolute BiS vs. someone who's got maybe 90% of their BiS stuff) is paper thin. Should the gap end up being this close? I think so. Again, it's been 6 months-ish since Creator Savage was released, and it wasn't until 4-5 months later than non-raiders could even come close to the ilvl raiders have had for some time. Having the gear "done" well in advance is a pretty nice perk.

Personally I'd like to see more non-power-increasing stuff added for Savage. Titles for clearing all 4 or however many floors for a particular wing of a raid and/or for clearing all of them. Wouldn't have to make a title for each floor like they did for Second Coil Savage, but something for clearing the entire part of the raid would be nice. Mounts are always a nice way to go. The gear always looks a bit different (and is dyeable). Fancy doodle weapons (I happen to like a lot of the A12S weapons, aesthetically speaking). Heck, getting all the EX primal mounts has more long term impact than clearing Creator Savage...a title and fancy mount.

For the itemization's lack of flavor, I honestly have no legitimate suggestions there. I'm simply going to wait and see what their plans are for parry and accuracy; I'd like to see the former have some form of offensive flavor (or make it legitimately impactful defensively) while the latter is simply relegated to the annals of history.

[Wrecktangle]

Having a massive disparity between top raiding and one step below also sends the game wildly hurdling towards massive power creep. One thing I've rather enjoyed about XIV is seeing the slow and reasonable climb on HP and damage/stats.

4 years and we're just now starting to reach for +100 stats on gear.
10 years and WoW is at +1,500 stats on gear.

I really prefer a slow incline over the drastic spikes every few months.

You don't want savage raiders 1-shotting every field mob in Stormblood while the lowly plebs need 5 minutes to kill a single enemy as a DPS. So what happens? First intro quests give near Savage level gear and blam, everyone skyrockets to new heights. Gear just bloats endlessly and without much need for it. SE has the right design for this being long term progression, WoW focuses on short term 'RAIDERS NEED TO FEEL SUPER POWERFUL EVERY RAID!" and jump ilvls to insane degrees. Probably a very different Japan vs Western development mentality. I prefer Square's (or I'd still be playing WoW, I suppose).

If you're going to use 4 years for FF14 (since 2.0 dropped), its only fair you include vanilla so it'd be almost 13 years (not 10) for WoW.

Looking at just ilvl for a second. in FF14 it looks like we're knocking on ~ 150 ilvl an expansion. So we're at the end of the second expansion and knocking on i300. Assuming we continue down this trend we'd see ~i450 at the end of Stormblood. i600 by end of 3rd expansion, i750 by end of 4th, i900 by 5th. So taking that into context you can see where FF14 is building into the exact same issue WoW suffers from, just a whole expansion more quickly. This is assuming they continue with their existing development model (which I pray changes).

Wow has 6 expansions and is currently knocking on i900.

Now that we've established that the ilvl climb is actually more of an issue in FF14 than WoW we can turn our sights to the other metrics.

Let's look at HP values. In ARR your WAR might have had 10K HP in his FCoB gear. How much does he have now? Looks like they're pretty close to 40k from the world first pic I am looking at. That's almost a 400% increase. Is that what you consider a slow incline?

How about DPS values. In ARR I was doing roughly 450 dps by end of SCoB (measuring T8). (I don't have any hard data past that sorry). On A1S Faust (using ACT with ONLY FAUST damage, no cleave) I was doing like 1200 dps. That's roughly a 300% increase in damage dealt between those 2 points. IIRC someone mentioned doing upwards of 2K dps nowadays. That makes your side of the argument even worse.

In WoW EN I was doing roughly 500K single target. In ToV barely higher, about the same. In NH I am doing about 150k higher, for a total of 650k single target. So from beginning raiding to current raiding I am doing approx. 30% more damage.

Which is a slower climb? 300% or 30%?